Duck Diving!!

[sinistapenguin]

My technique is this:

1. Approaching the wall of doom, push down on the nose,
2. get up to one knee with all weight forward to get the nose nice and deep
3. At the last second, shift weight backwards pushing down through the knee, levelling the board whist pushing the other leg up in the air so that the wave pushes it down.
4. 'Scoop' the board in front of me, then push down on the tail with my foot to get it lower than the nose.
5. As the board starts coming up, 'scoop' my arms back towards me and pull the board back into position as I break the surface
6. smile as all the people who were paddling next to you disappear back to the shore apart from the select few who make it through!!

So I do use the foot, and I would say it's key when trying to duck a bigger board, it's the only way to get a decent 'scoop'.

It's important that the motion is smooth - once you get the nose down and initiate the 'scoop', there's not really that much effort involved.

[cheval_fou101]

i have an 8'4" minimal. it's a mctavish carver, and is pretty narrow for a board it's size. I can sink the nose when i put weight on it. Is it possible for me to actually duck dive a board that size? sorry for the stupid question. Thanks.

[sinistapenguin]

Hey Crazy Horse!

I should think it is possible, not easy, but possible. I would pick a small day and just try it. It's all about technique and feel. I know someone who can (sort of) duckdive a 9'6 longboard!

[cheval_fou101]

thanks. been trying with mixed results. haha! so sick of the helpless feeling u get before u go into a turtle roll.

[dougirwin13]

For bigger boards your technique changes!

We have been through this before, but it isn't easy to find.

Check out the thread at https://surfing-waves.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4580&start=41

My advice is to understand the technique then nail it in some nice glassy water (like a swimming pool). Then practice it with progressively bigger waves.

Sinking a big board is all technique.

[drowningbitbybit]

Is it possible for me to actually duck dive a board that size?

No.

Oh, okay, technically yes. And people on here have claimed to have duckdived all sizes of boards, but is it a real duckdive, and could you do it when you need to for multiples waves to get out back or - worse still - get underneath that clean up set?

[BlondieChick]

Is it possible to duck-dive a 7'6 Minimal? Or is this a stupid question?! I haven't tried it yet as I'm not surfing that long- coming up to three months now at the end of June- and I don't want to look like a total fool if Minimals are not made for it! I have only seen guys with short-boards doing it where I surf.. Also, any tips for improving my turtle-roll? I seem to get taken back into shore a bit by the white water..should I be kicking my legs or something?? I weight about 65kg, and am 5ft 7.. Cheers

[sinistapenguin]

You definitely can. I can duck dive my 7'5 with no probs. It's all about technique!

[drowningbitbybit]

Is it possible to duck-dive a 7'6 Minimal? .... I weight about 65kg, and am 5ft 7.. Cheers

See my answer above.
Yes, technically it can be done, but you'll struggle and its not something you'd want to rely on in the real world (as opposed to practising on a flat ocean or dipping under small waves). More useful is learning about route and timing (find a rip, find a lull - you're out back in seconds).

I'm gonna argue with Sinista on this one.... not that it cant be done, just that its not really a useful technique on a big board (admittedly a 7'6 is a kind of middle ground). In too many years surfing, Ive never seen anyone genuinely duckdive anything above a mini-mal.
Sure, you can dip through a face, but a genuine duckdive when its really needed requires the board to be almost completely sunk before the wave unloads on your head - and simple physics says that you cant submerge something with more float than you have weight.

Think of a perfect duckdive on a shortboard - generally the surfer will have their hands relatively close to the nose of the board and will use their foot on the tailpad to push the board completely under and to do the 'scoop' motion. There's no way you can put all your weight on the front of a longboard and then weight the back for the scoop. Unless you're 9ft tall.

Anything else aint really a duckdive. Its a duckdip.

[sinistapenguin]

OK, so the 8'4 would be more of a 'dip' than a dive and the guy I know with the longboard is more of a sink the nose and hang on (only useful in small conditions), but I do believe the 7'6 is possible. When I do it, the board is totally under the water - about 2ft down and it's a proper scoop under the wave. Then again it does depend on volume, mine isn't very thick so it sinks pretty easy.

Also, dbbb's point about route and timing is fundamental - even if you can duckdive your way out to the lineup, it's still best to find the 'path of least resistance'. Spending a few minutes watching the guys that know what they're doing also lets you understand the break more before you paddle out.

[dougirwin13]

OK I won't buy into the argument about whether it's possible - which is really whether "slice n duck" classifies as a "proper" duck dive according to some folk on here. To me it's a yes. To DBB it's a no. Whatever.

I will say that it is a useful technique once mastered. And yes it does have it's limits, but so does "deeper" or "proper" duckdiving. Maybe just call it "slicing"? I find it most useful in semi-clean conditions. And a lot less useful against 10 foot walls of whitewater.

I completely agree with folks like DBB who advocate observing the break and other surfers there. Work with the ocean, not against it - regardless of what you ride. To me that's what surfing is about anyway.

But I also think it's admirable to master everything you can with your equipment over time. And to be a capable surfer on most equipment. And to me that includes slicing on bigger boards. I'd suggest not really worrying about slicing as a beginner unless it's small and clean tho.

Of course, YMMV.

[Lucd7]

Since everyones already way off topic, what does a person with a non-duckdivable(lol) board do when a "wall of doom" comes toward them, is turtle rolling really effective when theres 6+ feet waves ?

[dougirwin13]

Well a turtle-roll saves you a bit. LOL. It's the difference between getting knocked back 10-20' and getting hammered back all the way inside.

Again technique is everything with the turtle roll too. Do it wrong and your board will be ripped from you and you'l be dragged miles back.

I consider all of this stuff "emergency techniques" in most cases. One's that flag you haven't read your break right.

[drowningbitbybit]

what does a person with a non-duckdivable(lol) board do when a "wall of doom" comes toward them

Wishes they'd taken a different route out.

[dougirwin13]

what does a person with a non-duckdivable(lol) board do when a "wall of doom" comes toward them

Wishes they'd taken a different route out.

Damn that's what I should have said

[sinistapenguin]

My technique for the wall of doom situation - it aint pretty, but it works.

Get off your board, flip it fins up, grab the strappy bit at the end of the leash. Duck under the wave and pull down as hard as you can on the leash. This'll get you deep enough, plus it stops the board flying backwards and hitting anyone. It's also close enough to get back on quickly.

I've yet to encouter a wave this doesn't get you under!

[drowningbitbybit]

^^^^^^^
The danger with that technique is that the whitewater can make the board spin along its length.
Then your hand is caught right next to a spinning board, and a big wave will make it spin with incredible force.

This happened to me (at maroubra. A powerful wave) and it took all the skin off my knuckles. So not only was I caught inside, I now had a dysfunctional hand, not to mention I was filling the water with blood...

The force of a spinning board (particularly a mal) could easily break your wrist.

[dougirwin13]

Aka "an orderly bail"

The problem with all that is the "orderly dismount and position" all takes time. Every wasted second is another second you aren't paddling forward, which is important to counteract how much you get punched back inside... Which you will in the same way as a turtle roll. A decent turtle roll should be done at the last moment and should be at least as effective, with a fast "remount" and you should end up outside sooner, with less energy spent.

[BlondieChick]

Any chance of a good break-down on the perfect turtle-roll?! I think I must be missing something as I always end up much closer to shore than I was pre-roll!!

[dougirwin13]

Well you can check out the spiel at How To Turtle Roll but as usual I'd add a few things

When you see that wave coming don't stop! That's a good way to get punched back. You want to keep paddling until the last moment, that way you gain as much ground as you can... And hopefully maybe a little momentum will help.

Grab the front of your board a bit back from the nose, one hand either side and roll. Keep your arms a bit bent and let your body sink, using it as an anchor.

Once the wave has passed you want to get your board right way over and get back on it in one smooth motion and be paddling again.

There's plenty of info on this around that just seems like some of the stuff that seems to get forgotten.