How to Build speed with fins in Small/Medium Surf

[lloydvt]

I have been surfing for about 3.5 years in SoCal, surfing pretty consistently 2-4 times a week. Started on a 7'6" egg, then moved to a 6'8", and now either ride a 6'2" or 6'4". Ive been in the water long enough to be comfortable in heavy surf but have a VERY difficult time building speed in small to medium surf.

In larger waves I don't have as much of a problem, I think because I start out with more speed initially and can use the rail to rise up the face and gain speed as opposed to just the fins. However, I still feel as though I am not gaining as much speed as I should even in the larger stuff.

In smaller surf (~shoulder high or less) I have a difficulty gaining a lot of speed because I think in these conditions you rely highly on your fins to drive you up the wave. What usually will happen is I will try to use the fins, by stomping with the ball of my foot (frontside) and end up sinking the rail and stalling out. If I try for a more gentle stomp I get very little response.

Ive thought a good deal about this because it is so frustrating and Ive come up with a few things. I may be standing too far forward. It seems like my back foot would need to be directly over the fins, but especially in small surf I tend to pop-up a little farther forward in my stance (to lean in and catch the smaller wave). This of course makes it difficult to have my back foot over the fins. Should the back foot be directly over the fins?

The other thing I came up with was the technique of using the fins. As I mentioned, I tend to push down with the ball of my foot to try to engage the fins and rise up the wave. Is that correct, or should the technique be more like a twist? Something like the motion a snowboarder makes when turning sharply or stopping quickly.

Any recommendations?

[bluewhite]

i started recently on a 7'6" funboard. perhaps it's not my place but for what it's worth. could you be trying to stand up too quickly on the smaller waves? i've noticed ppl on shortboards and some of them paddle damn fast and catch everything they want.

also, i'm thinking about going down to a shortboard since i feel pretty comfortable now with my funboard. how difficult was it at first? i weigh 125lbs and thinking of 6'0" board.

[essex sucks]

i started recently on a 7'6" funboard. perhaps it's not my place but for what it's worth. could you be trying to stand up too quickly on the smaller waves? i've noticed ppl on shortboards and some of them paddle damn fast and catch everything they want.

also, i'm thinking about going down to a shortboard since i feel pretty comfortable now with my funboard. how difficult was it at first? i weigh 125lbs and thinking of 6'0" board.

lol how tall are u and can u ride the face of the wave well if not stay away from shortboards for a while yet til u can ride the face

[bluewhite]

thanks for the tip . i've started to but hard to read the waves... which way it's gonna break. i guess that's the best part and worst part of surfing is that every wave is different, not to mention to be at the right spot as the wave curls. i used to thrash as a kid so i'm used to being on a board and i've been skiing since i was 6 so i've always had good balance. but i gotta say, surfing is the most challenging although im getting up to speed fast. let's say on avg, how long would it take a relatively athletic person to go from learning how to surf to a shortboard. i surf about 2-3 times a wk for about 2 hours.

[bluewhite]

btw, i'm 5'6" and thinking of buying a used 6'0" cheap shortboard to give it a try

[essex sucks]

lol u can really give a time everyones different if your surfing erevy week and the board is cheap give it go if u can not get on with it yet its there for when your ready for it

[bluewhite]

thanks essex, much appreciated for your feedback

[TReMoR]

I have been surfing for about 3.5 years in SoCal, surfing pretty consistently 2-4 times a week. Started on a 7'6" egg, then moved to a 6'8", and now either ride a 6'2" or 6'4". Ive been in the water long enough to be comfortable in heavy surf but have a VERY difficult time building speed in small to medium surf.

In larger waves I don't have as much of a problem, I think because I start out with more speed initially and can use the rail to rise up the face and gain speed as opposed to just the fins. However, I still feel as though I am not gaining as much speed as I should even in the larger stuff.

In smaller surf (~shoulder high or less) I have a difficulty gaining a lot of speed because I think in these conditions you rely highly on your fins to drive you up the wave. What usually will happen is I will try to use the fins, by stomping with the ball of my foot (frontside) and end up sinking the rail and stalling out. If I try for a more gentle stomp I get very little response.

Ive thought a good deal about this because it is so frustrating and Ive come up with a few things. I may be standing too far forward. It seems like my back foot would need to be directly over the fins, but especially in small surf I tend to pop-up a little farther forward in my stance (to lean in and catch the smaller wave). This of course makes it difficult to have my back foot over the fins. Should the back foot be directly over the fins?

The other thing I came up with was the technique of using the fins. As I mentioned, I tend to push down with the ball of my foot to try to engage the fins and rise up the wave. Is that correct, or should the technique be more like a twist? Something like the motion a snowboarder makes when turning sharply or stopping quickly.

Any recommendations?

im not sure but for the speed ... i think you could pump. but ive certainly been surfing much less than you.. where in So Cal do you surf?

[lloydvt]

Well, been gone a few days and seems somebody hijacked the subject of this thread. I was really referring to building speed on the face using fins to pump without stalling. so basically I was asking about pumping technique, can anyone comment on that?

as for catching waves and when to move to a shortboard, I am positive there are a ton of other threads on this forum about that. Its a pretty common question.

[drowningbitbybit]

What usually will happen is I will try to use the fins, by stomping with the ball of my foot (frontside) and end up sinking the rail and stalling out. If I try for a more gentle stomp I get very little response.

I find to pump the back for that extra squirt you need to be lined up in the direction you want to go, so you dont need to put any pressure on the rail. So then you can stomp as hard as you like and then immediately correct with the leading foot.

Almost like doing an ollie on a skateboard - as soon as you've weighted the back, its time to get on the front.

[tomcat360]

What drowning said. Also, in the style of Tim Curran, he used to do small turns back and forth across flat spots that would load and pop the fins. I'm not very good with that, haha.

By the way, it was nice to see a new guy with a legitimate question that was well written, explained, but unfortunately, hijacked, haha.

[IB_Surfer]

Can I ask what fins you have on your board? Future or FCS and the actual model? Reason I ask is that I've been trying different fins and have narrowed down my FCS choices.

First of all, the standard M3, M5's or M7's are all preeety thick, so I don't use the generics any more. I did not like the AM, YU, RP and PR fins, all are great for holding high on the wave but seemed to drag, in my oppinion making it harder to get into the wave.

I prefer the GMB's, K2.1, k3 and FG5's, they seem to glide easier and are total performers. Slightly narrower, less rake, smaller tip, easier for me. I use OCCY fins on my gun, sligthly bigger than M5's but a lot thinner, so once again paddle much better than the big fat M7's it came with. Also, the k3's and k2.1's have a smaller center fin, again less drag. I use a normal center for big surf to take away the squirleyness. Also, I only use GX centers on my quad, total wave paddler.

Anyway, in a nutshell, try some new fins.

If you have futures I did not like the f450's, but loved the original F5's on a quad I had.

Anyway, food for thought.

[lorcar]

good thread
Anyone wanting to add proper technique for PUMPING, especially backside?

[Aloha]

First watch the Creating Speed video and the Small wave videos here:
http://www.surfcoach.com/free-advanced-videos/

From the above videos, the most important thing I've found with small wave surfing is the arm throw. It makes a huge amount of difference. Two throws and I'm going so fast on a tiny wave that I can nail a cutback easily. Without a throw I would never have the speed to even think of cutting back on such a weak wave.

Small wave surfing on performance boards is probably one of the hardest things to do well. It requires a lot of effort. The board going straight doesn't generate a lot of speed, you have to constantly squirt water past the fins and do little turns to keep it going.

Weight placement is critical. Too much on the back foot will kill your speed. As the other guys have said turn and squirt on the back foot then engage the front foot for drive again. Little turns from rail to rail help as well. One thing that also helps is crouching low on very slow sections and bending your back knee more towards the front of the board.

Of course the other part is reading the wave. Generally the higher you ride in the wave the more speed you'll have and the more potential speed you have as you can drop down to get more. You'll also want to surf close to the pocket, and this means you need to know how to cutback or snap so that you'll stay near the power source.

A really good tool for learning pumping and compressing your turns is a Carveboard/Streetzboard. The ones with the great big wheels are the best. Try borrow one from someone or somewhere if you can. Use it until you know how to ride it down hill a bit. Then take it out on the flats and try to keep it going by pumping, your legs will burn! It's hard work, especially on the big tire version, as it is heavy. You'll learn how to generate speed through compression on the tail just like on a surfboard. You'll also improve your bottom turns and cutbacks.

[lorcar]

turn and squirt on the back foot then engage the front foot for drive again. Little turns from rail to rail help as well.

Aloha,

it seems you are describing TWO different approaches. Is that correct? or is it the same thing? more details are appreciated!

[Aloha]

Yes there are different ways to drive the board through slow sections.
The first and ugliest (but that most people are guilty of doing) is hopping.

The hop is when you push hard on the tail downward. Then when the nose has risen up a bit you push hard down on the nose, with your front foot, which squirts water towards your fins. Most instructors will say this is the wrong thing to do and you should probably just abort the wave at this point.

It's the last resort; I do this when I'm too slow to pump and the section is too fat/flat to try using the rails. I also only do this if it looks like there's a chance the wave will reform into a steeper section, otherwise you are prolonging a bad ride for no reason.

The second of course is the classic pump. This is mainly weighting and un-weighting your board by extending and contracting your body. Coming down the face crouch low, bending your knees. Then go up the face by extending your body forward and upwards and throwing your arms forwards and upwards. I can't think what you do on the rails as it's just instinctive. It's very similar to pumping your skateboard on a half pipe.

The third which instructors say you should do rather than the hop is just ride rail to rail. This keeps a smaller section of the board in the water and therefore reduces drag. You push on your back foot towards one rail and then towards the other. You are trying to push water through the fins so you need to bend and release your knees whilst doing this as well. The carveboard is great for teaching you this last one, the only problem is it's a pretty expensive piece of equipment.

With the above rail to rail, you can't spend too much time on the tail as that will also slow you down so you need to also push on your front foot in between transitions to plane the board. Jeez all this is hard to explain, when it's all just a feeling.

[lorcar]

The second of course is the classic pump. This is mainly weighting and un-weighting your board...It's very similar to pumping your skateboard on a half pipe.

The third is just ride rail to rail.... You push on your back foot towards one rail and then towards the other. You are trying to push water through the fins . The carveboard is great for teaching

Alhoa,

thanks really a lot, i do appreciate.
Must say though I am not so sure I understood the difference between method 2 and 3.
Must add I am a post beginner surfer, still far from pumping.
I read a lot about pumping/generating speed, and watched as many video I could. And what I got is that "your" #2 weighting/unweighting, creation of horizontal acceleration, arm throw, etc requires also pushing on the tail/back foot to drive off the fins and make the board climbs the wave's face, then push your front foot to go down a bit and get speed.
So really I don't think I got what is the difference between the 2 ways. If you can find a video I am sure everyone will appreciate!

thanks a lot again

[garbarrage]

Think what he means is: First way is back and forth - Sort of nudging the board forward. ( I think I do the complete opposite though, ie. weight and unweight the nose just before it pearls)

The second way, is trying to keep as little of the bottom of your board in contact with the water as possible. Triple Crown of Surfing is on now for the next 6 weeks here: http://triplecrownofsurfing.com/reefhawaiianpro/live
Pretty sure at some stage you will see an example of what he's talking about, usually if they run the event in the earlier rounds when the surf isn't perfect.