Please! Do something about the Bournemouth Reef hype!!!

[kitesurfer]

groin is a anatomy term ( I think)

groyne is a coastal engineering term (maybe)

I think mispelling it maybe takes a scientist?

but yes shame that its on the net with a speelling mistake.

I think it suggest that surfing waves on artificial reefs may get better and better after each project. ( am I being optimistic?)

And yes we all live in hope that lessons are being learnt from any mistakes made in anything done for any progress where people are the beneficieries.
M_R

Are you actually from the company that makes the reefs?

LOL. Take a guess GED. There's only 1 person that i can think of who has this much interest/bitterness about artificial reefs.
Although i might be wrong.

KS

[Milo]

Its getting boring now guys, put it to bed.

[market-research]

no
i dont smoke!

[market-research]

i'm looking for the link that was sent to me
i will post it when i find it.
M_R

[market-research]

lo' all
you can view the abstract I submitted to the forum at the following url.
you can also download the entire pdf there as well.
to change the subject to something unfolding before our eyes - iceland the country -once not long ago europes wealthiest has just gone "bankrupt"?

pitchforks and shovels for the greed and lies that got the world into this mess -in my humble opinion. Thats real serious market failure.

http://adt.waikato.ac.nz/public/adt-uow20080806.195651/
oh i also found some photographs of bournemouth surfing on the (facing the ocean) right side of the pier. It was good swell, offshore wind and had some shape -looked encouraging.

rgds
M_R

[robnixon]

Please, M-R, can you post a link to the article you claim is a thesis on the Waikato Uni website? I had a look for it and can't find it. I should like to read the actual text.

The link to the doctorate thesis is http://adt.waikato.ac.nz/public/adt-uow20080806.195651/

It reads in the abstract,

Results showed that the beach-state has more cellular circulation since the reef was installed, and a groin effect on the offshore bar was caused by the structure within the monitoring period, trapping sediment updrift and eroding sediment downdrift. No identifiable shoreline salient was observed. Landward of the reef, a scour hole ~3 times the surface area of the reef has formed. The current literature on ASRs has primarily focused on reef shape and its role in creating surfing waves. However, this study suggests that impacts to the offshore bar, beach-state, scour hole and surf zone hydrodynamics should all be included in future surfing reef designs. More real world reef studies, including ongoing monitoring of existing surfing reefs are required to validate theoretical concepts in the published literature.

[/quote]

[Brent]

Ah Rob.

Interesting I see several posts above someone's finally clicked to the fact that undergrad staff from the organisation (whom shall not be named) read pretty much everything posted about their beloved underwater bouncy-castles on the web seeking "intellegence" - I bet they think they're doing "science" even.

How's the reef-in-progress coming along you UK folk? any updates?

[market-research]

stage 2 has commenced I notice on the official website

thats 2 out five so who knows it may be finished by the end of october.
is that when it is promised to be finished by?

is there anyone on this forum that was at the overflowing crowded meeting at wessex surf club early on?

I have been told that was when three reefs were universally agreed on as being needed. One for beginers , one for intermediate and the last one for the experts who could handle the largest of wave "peaking" that was said would happen. The presenter said that the peaking expected to be a a range that compared it with the "pipeline" (to a lessor scale though)

There are so may snippets to this tale i hope that it is all being recorded as a time sequence so that all the info can be read in a way that is not biased or misleading for posterity and providence.

regards
M-R

[Hang11]

^^Pipe, in Bournemouth, FFS

[market-research]

thats why I am asking if anybody on this forum was at that meeting at wessex surf club, i learnt long ago not to believe everything that I read or heard unless it at least had a person who was there to corroborate what was reported in a impartial way.

the words reported to me were something like " **** told a overflowing crowd at wessex surf club that his calculations showed that the wave size increase at the narrowneck reef was about 2.5 times and that related to a wave being increased from knee height to overhead. If the pipeline was a 8 grade wave bournemouth would be a 5 grade wave"

"the overcrowed meeting then decided that three reefs should be built to ensure the safety of beginners and allow a progression to the more advanced wave of grade 5 that was a barrel and overhead" or something like that.

Obviously it was concerning to the meeting that barrels that compared to the pipeline would not be suitable for everybody.

Is that a lot of malarky or did it really happen the way that I said above?

Thats important to me because to repeat it is a bit scurrilous unless it is corroborated by someone who was there. Truthfull and unbiased reports are what a proper historical record is supposed to be.

Thats a fair call to me -what do you think ??

I'm not being judgemental here -just asking fair questions for fair answers.

cheers all

M_R

(see y'all on the soap kitchen line)

[Brent]

Seriously...

I have a whole scrapbook of press clippings with the same nonsense stated here dating back to 1999. Who says history never repeats?

I'd really love to see these calculations - did any qualified scientists peer-review (or even see) these calculations. I can't grasp how a reef can magnify a wave (sure didn't work here). Only shape & modify.
Simple physics.

What bothers me personally is ASR have (had) the potential to do something so good & exciting, so groundbreakingly dynamic for our sport I earnestly believed back at the start Kerry & co were real visonaries... but they now appear to be more interested in selling reefs to punters...than science & surfing.








[/b][/i]

[market-research]

again , its the same we can never believe everything we hear or read but can we be sure that the press acurately reported what was said ?

They are in the business od selling papers and even the national enquirer in the US is a read just for fun to see what a reporter has been smoking his last text edit?

Can you be sure that the people concerned were quoted correctly?

regards

m_r

ps does anybody know anybody who was at the "pipeline 8" wessex surf club meeting that "overflowed"?

[Roy Stewart]

groin is a anatomy term ( I think)


And yes we all live in hope that lessons are being learnt from any mistakes made in anything done for any progress where people are the beneficieries.
M_R

Ok if it's not your home break being ruined in the name of future success. . . . . . . M R doesn't surf Tay st !

The lesson to be learnt is to design surfboards which RIDE THE EXISTING WAVES better, rather than altering the coastline to suit specialised trick surfboards ( and then failing to do so )

We could have had a nice set ofchanging sheds, showers, surf rescue facilities and board storage for the money used to make a good break into a tragic disaster zone.

Or maybe some new barbecues and beach plantings ?

.

[robnixon]

groin is a anatomy term ( I think)


And yes we all live in hope that lessons are being learnt from any mistakes made in anything done for any progress where people are the beneficieries.
M_R

Ok if it's not your home break being ruined in the name of future success. . . . . . . M R doesn't surf Tay st !

The lesson to be learnt is to design surfboards which RIDE THE EXISTING WAVES better, rather than altering the coastline to suit specialised trick surfboards ( and then failing to do so )

We could have had a nice set ofchanging sheds, showers, surf rescue facilities and board storage for the money used to make a good break into a tragic disaster zone.

Or maybe some new barbecues and beach plantings ?

.

That is the best rebuttal I have ever heard on ASRs!

Well Said!

[market-research]

Roy,

I have no argument on anything you said for the Mount reef.

I am trying to get a verified chronology on where the 2-1/2 times "knee high to overhead " wave enlargement expectation started in the Bournmouth area. This is enough to "hook" any wave starved person or youngster unable to travel.

Published material all leads back to a public presentation by a mr ..... to the overflowing building at wessex surf club. Was it the presenter that said that to the people ? Was it a member of the audience?

The media "hype' started there for Bournemouth it seems and that media hype is now being blamed by a certain commercial interest for people expecting too much from the completed reef.

My little research assignment is to just verify what happened , who started it ,where it was and then of cause why?

Just the normal things to help explain why people are being accused of being influenced by media "hype" and expecting too much.

Was the possible outcome for the Bournemouth reef a "5" when being rated a "5" as the banzai pipeline was referred to as a "8"?

This all of course leads us to the marketing concept ( quite a nice one actualy) that the rideable days at bornemouth will double with the size of waves being doubled.

There has been a "official release" by a mr ***** that it now "wont be even double the wave size" as he has "to manage expectations."

This is a nice little assignment as all the hallmarks of "effective market manipulation" from many angles may be present and and that is worthy of some diligent record keeping. This is not judging but information gathering.

The Bornemouth reef project may be a perfect textbook example for inclusion in all tourism, commerce and marketing degree courses for the future as a textbok case study and not to pre-empt the outcome it may be a perfect example of the Machiavelli "the ends were worth the means" if the initiated spin was used to create a good outcome.

I think in the future with all thats going on around us we will see more scutiny on past and "not for long -present practices" with regulated inclusion of probity and providence in marketing strategys where it is judged they were not present previously.

I seem to have drawn a dead end in the wessex surf club meeting quotes?

Is this unworthy of corrobaration ?

Any higher degree assignment like this can only work with facts and cooroborated information.

M_R

[market-research]

"At a packed meeting of the Wessex Surf Club, ****** showed pictures of the Reef on the Gold Coast of Australia , recently completed. His calculations show that the average swell is amplified 250% by the Reef. This would mean that a knee high wave would essentially become overhead! The general opinion at the meeting was that the best type of reef for Bournemouth (initially) was one that would make very small days more rideable, therefore increasing the number of days surf in a year. If the reef building becomes an ongoing project, there is no reason why each reef could not have different wave characteristics.


Original estimates of the reef costing around £500,000 have been halved by *****, who now believes that the reef could be built for the same cost or less than the traditional Wooden groynes, so long a feature of Bournemouths seafront. If the plans for the reef are adopted, new reefs could be built every year instead of groynes. this would eventually make the beach a lot bigger, and transform Bournemouth into the Watersports Mecca of Europe ! "

at last some input from the local people -I have had to delete the individuals that are in the records. It does not quote the individual as actually saying "knee high to overhead" but seems to be the writers interpretation.

What is interesting is that the promoter gave expert advice that the council would be saving money on what it had to do or at least be just as out of pocket.

This is so interesting a case study - the cost estimates seem to be a bit wonky though? Was the major revitalisation of the town commenced on the basis of the figures quoted above?

why is everybody not answering about what has been said and who said it? I'm glad that I got this input at least the speaker is not identified as being the one that says "knee high to overhead". He has stuck to his expert judgement of a magnification of 2.5 times the size which is his call.

Theres a smell of fish in denmark about this all and a novel is the the making I believe when all the facts become clear.

M_R

[Brent]

Quote "Any higher degree assignment like this can only work with facts and cooroborated information."
Why not look at our records here, I've got almost 10 years worth of clippings & quotes from the men themselves.
Nobody else created wave height & quality scales but them, and started talking up "8"s before the thing was even funded. Let alone built...

Nobody created the slogan "the perfect wave forever" other than them.

We all sat there (well not me I was alittle more objective) and lapped it up like followers...

Better still. Open your fleshin eyes & look at Narrowneck, use our webcams to view ours...or even better come here for a long weekend.
I'll buy you a beer and you too can ponder the horizon like a Meercat.

[market-research]

Brent
Have you thought of setting up a website with scanned clippings for people to access? They all sound like good background material. Are the reporters named so that they can be talked to?

Also do you think that they have learnt anything in the process to be able to produce what they say they can?

I mean what happened cant be changed it can only be learnt from so the more information that is available the better all can learn?

The real test is now with the Bournemouth reef to be finished by christmas-can you imagine the cost of everything on standby day by day into the wave season to complete the reef just waiting for a window to complete it in?

I dont wish any ill upon the Bournemouth folk.

Is the Mount reef to be removed ? (as I read the conditions for its placement stated if it caused adverse effects on the beach )

The new study suggests that "its done' as shore protection and the surfing aspect is at best less than marginal.

m_r

[Roy Stewart]

Putting tons of plastic into the ocean is a no brainer.

That's lesson one

Lesson two is that ASR are scammers.




.

[Brent]

Their failures here start from the very beginning.
1) too much talk-up of possible benefits.
2) too much creative thinking & writing when stating financial benefits to the community. They said "70:1" that's for every dollar spend the community would reap 70 back...impossible.
3) jargon filled science papers (written by themselves & associates) backing up artifical reefs.
4) using the fact they were associated with the Uni of Waikato as leverage & crediblity. Their letterhead appears on all the papers, see point (3)
5) allowing the project to begin with no proper porject management or quantity surveying.
6) methodology not thought out.
7) attempting to lay it at an unstable time of year weather-wise.
8) defending the reef when clearly it was not working (loss of face & credibility with the youth surfing community)
9) leaving it unfinished - I learned last week ours is STILL not actually finished.
10) running away to the other side of the world & doing it all over again in poor innocent Bournemouth...

BUT, still I hold out hope for us here. This pending swell season (nov-march) will tell. If ours doesn't deliver then finally we'll see - it hasn't yet though. Likewise the proof will be in the pudding over there too.

Lets hope they magically begin working.