heeelp...how do you do frontside cutbacks without stalling?

[pmcaero]

As some of you know, I don't have the greatest board (7'9" plastic Bic is my small wave driver).
I've been working on frontside cutbacks for a while now, but I still have a hard time turning the board decisively back towards the breaking part of the wave. So far, what I do is try to push the tail down and turn with my arms. Sometimes it works OK, sometimes it doesn't. Any attempt to lean causes the board to stall. Granted, I have been trying this mostly in mushy waves where there actually is no need for a cutback as I am already in white water when I do it.
But anyway, I feel like I should be able to get the board to turn faster, even my current board. Any tips welcome especially from longboarders who ride crappy waves.

[jaffa1949]

Lets give you some more thoughts...... cutbacks occur on the face of the wave, not in mushy white water. in the white water it all happens exactly as you describe, back foot pressure stalls the board, a lean unbalances your, the white water overwhelms you ..... wipe out.

You are just doing sort of floppy side to side turns in the white water.

A genuine cut back is on the face, it is supported by speed across the face, the wave is caught, good speed drive across , the cutback is to bring you back from the shoulder where your speed has taken you into the more powerful part of the wave nearer the curl.

Your blog sometimes shows other people at your beach riding better waves while you flounder around inside. I wonder why you are not taking on the better waves. (. I look at your blog regularly to try to figure out how to help you).

There is very little most surfers can do in poor weak white water. When you do get on the face you need to move slightly forward to generate speed but you continually weight your back foot and ride in constant stall, and the white water just passes you by and leaves you in it.
Your stance is double footed at most other times meaning your weight is equally on both feet and to move you have to weight one foot to move ( unfortunately the foot you weight is your back foot = stall ) and once again white water engulfs you.

Surfing engages gear shifts of weighting and unweighting as a continual transition, dancing but not wearing lead boots of being fixed in position.

I applaud you being out there in your climate. I would like to suggest you go for a few coaching session with a good coach, it would help you break an accumulation of unuseful,habits.

Just went back and looked at your blog videos, other than when you stand up you have absolutely no foot movement , the board definitely in stall and even the weak waves quickly pass you by.

[Big H]

It's one of those things you wonder about until you are out on a decent wave, made a solid bottom turn, speeding across the face and wonder to yourself "maybe I should get back to the curl" and then you turn to look back at the curl and the board follow and you find yourself riding back in the opposite direction into the breaking wave and then the thought occurs "s***....that's the wave breaking and coming fast right at me" so you turn to look back down the wave and get away from the oncoming whitewater and in position to bottom turn again and repeat.... At least that is how I stumbled onto it....if you don't get out on the face headed to the shoulder with speed don't worry about cutting back because you don't need to.

[waikikikichan]

I have been trying this mostly in mushy waves where there actually is no need for a cutback as I am already in white water when I do it.

"Where there is no need for a cutback" ...... ???? Then don't do it at that moment. You know it's the wrong time yet you still try. Instead of thinking CUTback, think COMEback. Get out on the shoulder and COME back to the wave. A cutback is a directional change of board and rider to get back to the energy of the wave, usually from shoulder to curl. Mushy whitewater foam is not a place to cutback ( or pump ).

How's your BACK SIDE bottom turn ? If that sucks, then the same mechanics exists on your Frontside cutbacks.

[pmcaero]

Lets give you some more thoughts...... cutbacks occur on the face of the wave, not in mushy white water. in the white water it all happens exactly as you describe, back foot pressure stalls the board, a lean unbalances your, the white water overwhelms you ..... wipe out.

There's a recent frontside video towards the end where I end up far on the shoulder and I think a cutback would help, but I just stall the board .
Wave's still pretty weak though so I might just not have the speed.

[pmcaero]

"Where there is no need for a cutback" ...... ???? Mushy whitewater foam is not a place to cutback ( or pump ).

I have been purposefully practicing just this maneuver. The board doesn't stall in white water even with heavy back foot pressure.But I'd like to be able to do it better on a clean face, ideally without losing too much speed - cause I usually don't have much to begin with - if this is even possible.

[pmcaero]

It's one of those things you wonder about until you are out on a decent wave, made a solid bottom turn, speeding across the face and wonder to yourself "maybe I should get back to the curl" and then you turn to look back at the curl and the board follow and you find yourself riding back in the opposite direction into the breaking wave and then the thought occurs..

The Bic is the kind of board that requires a bit more power and finesse to turn like that.

[jaffa1949]

Lets give you some more thoughts...... cutbacks occur on the face of the wave, not in mushy white water. in the white water it all happens exactly as you describe, back foot pressure stalls the board, a lean unbalances your, the white water overwhelms you ..... wipe out.

There's a recent frontside video towards the end where I end up far on the shoulder and I think a cutback would help, but I just stall the board .
Wave's still pretty weak though so I might just not have the speed.

Yep the second one down, 7/2/17 , weak wave a vague shoulder, no foot movement shoulder wiggle and lean in the hope of turning.
Not much power true that... . Certainly not for any lean. Try doing a slow bicycle ride and without adding speed, now lean to turn ( instant gravel rash.) move your feet move forward there was a little chance generate slightly more speed. . Gain the speed, step back torque your whole body to load up the tail and guide the board with your front foot and counter rotating pressure on your back foot.
None of your turns involve any foot movement ( Severe gluefootedness) just a little arm waving and rotation.
Your problem is not the BIC being too heavy it is just lack of power , you being unable to deliver it because your feet are static and the lack of power in the waves you surf,although those last two,videos had enough to create a turn from.

Float like a butterfly turn like a bee!

[pmcaero]

move your feet move forward there was a little chance generate slightly more speed. . Gain the speed, step back torque your whole body to load up the tail and guide the board with your front foot and counter rotating pressure on your back foot.

thanks for the tip. I think I understand it. It's harder to do that turning towards your back than towards your front but it seems like the only logical way.

[Big H]

It's one of those things you wonder about until you are out on a decent wave, made a solid bottom turn, speeding across the face and wonder to yourself "maybe I should get back to the curl" and then you turn to look back at the curl and the board follow and you find yourself riding back in the opposite direction into the breaking wave and then the thought occurs..

The Bic is the kind of board that requires a bit more power and finesse to turn like that.

Bro....this happened to me on a 9'6"
Longboard on a 1.5OH wave....your 7'9" only requires a bigger wave.

[pmcaero]

Longboard on a 1.5OH wave....your 7'9" only requires a bigger wave.

I wish I had a real longboard...it'd be a bitch to bring in and out of the apartment without putting a ding on it every time.

[waikikikichan]

The Bic is the kind of board that requires a bit more power and finesse to turn like that.

Stop blaming the Bic ( or any board ) for your lack of surfing prowess. Bic's turn fine if you put your foot in the right spot, put the board in the right part of the wave, and turn at the right time.
You're having problems picking up the hot chick, so you keep blaming the clothes your wearing. It's not what you wear, it's how you wear it.

[waikikikichan]

I have been purposefully practicing just this maneuver. The board doesn't stall in white water even with heavy back foot pressure.But I'd like to be able to do it better on a clean face, ideally without losing too much speed - cause I usually don't have much to begin with - if this is even possible.

You keep asking questions "how to cutback", "how to pump", "how to blah, blah". You want to RIP on your board. Dude, learn how to SURF first. By that I mean, learn and get down fully the basics. Learn to TRIM and get out on to the face/shoulder. I know, I know, you so so much want to get better, but there's steps that are needed.
You CAN NOT cutback in the whitewater. You CAN NOT cutback going slow. You CAN NOT cutback by just leaning. You keep practicing the WRONG way, so you will excel more at ........ ( what do you think ? ) ...... WRONG. No matter how much I really really want to bake a delicious birthday cake, if I only got a can of Spam, some coffee beans and a head of broccoli, it probably ain't going to turn out so well.

[pmcaero]

You CAN NOT cutback in the whitewater. You CAN NOT cutback going slow. You CAN NOT cutback by just leaning. You keep practicing the WRONG way, so you will excel more at ........ ( what do you think ? ) ...... WRONG.

I get what you are saying,and to some extent I agree, any board can be surfed competently by a competent surfer (which I am not yet, of course). I would have some advantages with a better board selection, I don't think anyone can deny that. Longer rides on small days, catching waves earlier on a longboard for instance.

I'm making do with what I have for now. Maybe stating cutbacks was a bit ambitious, I should have said: help me turn backside more efficiently.

I get what you are saying about trimming as an earlier step, I am working the wave face for energy management - when there is such face I think I'm OK at that though.

[jaffa1949]

PM I'm curious, this 7'9" BIC you are riding is it the one you bought 5 years ago ? The one that was leaking water from the nose , had water stains and was as heavy as all get up?

[pmcaero]

PM I'm curious, this 7'9" BIC you are riding is it the one you bought 5 years ago ?

yeah, same board. I think it's still watertight, dunno why the nose got stained early on.
I have a few shorter boards but for summer this is my regular. I can't really fit a longboard in the apartment.

[jaffa1949]

Ok a couple of things to try. Go pick up a new BIC, make a weight comparison? Draw conclusions in regard to that.
Next review each surf session , are there guysgetting better waves than you ( have to admit your posts show a woeful beach).

I really feel it is time to flick the BIC after 5 years you should be surfing better than what we see.
OK apartment limitations, heaven forbid a new BIC, or a new board at 7'9" a Torq or similar.

This reply is based on reading your entire line of posts You certainly manage to occupy a unique niche in Surfing Waves,. Oh and maybe a new beach or going out and trying better waves if they occur there.

[pmcaero]

This reply is based on reading your entire line of posts

I've been on the lookout for a new funboard on Craigslist for a while, like my 7'4" "big boy" shortboard which unfortunately is pretty dinged up.
I'd keep the Bic for the summer, but I want something better for fall / winter when we get better surf. I'm not in good enough shape to handle my other shortboards on anything but ideal conditions with the thick winter wetsuit. So I gave up on that, but I still need to be able to make steep drops on near close-out conditions. Around are mostly beach breaks so no better options. Because it's a beach break paddling also is exhausting when it gets bigger - i.e. better. I need to work on my stamina but I think a new board suitable for bigger surf would help me improve.

[jaffa1949]

Please oh pleas get a new board , flick the BIC, I know we tell you it can be turned but I really suspect it is full of water and altogether a hindrance.
DO NOT go shorter, go for the maximum length your apartment allows. Go epoxy ,a basic shape, The Wall,is a horrible surf pospect except on very rare days. I trawled the webcams and YouTube posts of the poor wall crew. Not good.........Get fit, as you suggest, do check the weight comparison for your ( soon the be former) BIC . What about going to Rye on the Rocks? I you stay at the wall get your resources into get out to the outside breaks If and when they occur.

I admire your tenacity but that beach would make me move elsewhere. There is so much stopping you and lack of good waves favoring learning progress is first and foremost. Then watersoaked BIC.

One thing I might recommend is a surf holiday to,a,rel,beach with warm water, no rubber, no slow joints from the cold, the freedom of board shorts and decent small,waves .Maybe a coaching session or two and lots of water time. You should then be leaping out of your skin with newfound vigour and skills.
You have suffered too long with sub mediocrity in your surfing, 5 years, that should have seen you so much more advanced.
I see pretty ordinary surfers head to Bali and spend two weeks just surfing and the improvement that happens is great. Treat yourself!

[pmcaero]

I admire your tenacity but that beach would make me move elsewhere. There is so much stopping you and lack of good waves favoring learning progress is first and foremost. Then watersoaked BIC.

One thing I might recommend is a surf holiday to,a,rel,beach with warm water, no rubber, no slow joints from the cold, the freedom of board shorts and decent small,waves .Maybe a coaching session or two and lots of water time. You should then be leaping out of your skin with newfound vigour and skills.

Thanks for the advice and empathy...unfortunately due to work (trying to build a business) and family developments, I can't travel much out of New England.
I try to go to the most decent surf break closest to my house so that I don't waste time on the road.
To be honest I am a bit intimidated by Rye on the Rocks, it seems like an advanced spot and I wouldn't want to get in the way.
But to put things in perspective I am actually lucky compared to 99% of the world's population when it comes to access to surf.