Longboard Step Down Advice for a Once and Future Longboarder

[warkick]

Hello all,

I've been surfing for about 3 years about once a week, but still don't consider myself much better than an advanced beginner. I regularly hit mushy East Coast U.S. surf that does occasionally get good--think hurricane season. I surf all year, all seasons and am primarily a long boarder. I love long boarding, started this way and will continue to surf longer boards--my go to is a 9.6. I also have an 8.3 pintail egg and an 8 foot fun board, which are my current step-downs. However, I would like something more manageable for when it gets big and that I'm able to duck dive. As mentioned, still getting the hang of some of the basics like bottom turns, turning down the line and walking the board. I'd like to be as well rounded as possible and want to work on shorter board skills for slightly bigger, peaky, quick beach breaks.

Any recommendations on the absolute floatiest board that can be taken into big surf, but could also potentially duck dive? I'm 6 ft 1 and about 175 pounds. Open to consider just about anything.

[Naeco78]

Your 8' pintail egg seems like it might be a good option for the situation you described. Not great for duck diving obviously, but being a pintail and 1ft shorter than you daily board, should give it the extra maneuverability that you're looking for in punchy beach break.
I think you might loose too much stability for progressing with bottom turns and trimming, if you go much shorter. But its tough to gauge someones surfing level from a quick description. If you can borrow a CI Water Hog, it's been a really fun mid length when I've had the chance to use them in head-high beachbreak conditions. I think the one i used was around 7'. Good transition board.

[waikikikichan]

I would like something more manageable for when it gets big and that I'm able to duck dive.

What size boards have you tried to duck dive and couldn't ?

I'm 6 ft 1 and about 175 pounds.

I'm 5 ft 3 and about 125 pounds. I am able to duck dive my 6'4" fish with 40.2 Liters of volume

[warkick]

Post by waikikikichan » Thu Aug 05, 2021 5:55 am

warkick wrote:
I would like something more manageable for when it gets big and that I'm able to duck dive.

What size boards have you tried to duck dive and couldn't ?

*Thanks so much for the reply! Basically, can't duck dive with the 8.3 egg and 8 ft funboard. I used to have a 6.2 hybrid swallow tail that I could take out in bigger surf and duck dive, but realized quickly that this was too short for my skill level. As stated I'd really like to improve my bottom turns and ability to go down the line and eventually do cutbacks. But I'm learning a lot of this on longer boards. This is what I like doing and spend most of my time on the longboard, using the 8.3 as a step-down since it is easier to maneuver on slightly bigger and steeper waves.But it just has too much volume to push under the surf--especially rough surf. However, on days with stronger and more vertical waves, I need to explore a more realistic option for getting out back and catching waves that are punchy and more vertical.

warkick wrote:
I'm 6 ft 1 and about 175 pounds.

I'm 5 ft 3 and about 125 pounds. I am able to duck dive my 6'4" fish with 40.2 Liters of volume

*Yeah, sounds like I need something closer to 7 ft and 50+ liters!

Re: Longboard Step Down Advice for a Once and Future Longboa

Post by Naeco78 » Thu Aug 05, 2021 2:17 am
Your 8' pintail egg seems like it might be a good option for the situation you described. Not great for duck diving obviously, but being a pintail and 1ft shorter than you daily board, should give it the extra maneuverability that you're looking for in punchy beach break.
I think you might loose too much stability for progressing with bottom turns and trimming, if you go much shorter. But its tough to gauge someones surfing level from a quick description. If you can borrow a CI Water Hog, it's been a really fun mid length when I've had the chance to use them in head-high beachbreak conditions. I think the one i used was around 7'. Good transition board.

*Awesome advice! I'll see if I can find a Water Hog or similar shape to try out. Something like this is clearly missing from my quiver. I understand that it's going to be difficult dropping down a foot or more in size, but need something for those rare good days around here. Coming up fast with hurricane season approaching!

[oldmansurfer]

I surf mid length boards that are not duck divable. What I do instead is (besides reading the lineup and avoiding situations that require it) a duck dip or half duck dive. I push the nose vertically down as deep as I can and dive my body deeper right before the wave hits and the wave pushes the tail down and I pull the nose up (on waves that have broken already). Works similar to a duck dive

[waikikikichan]

using the 8.3 as a step-down since it is easier to maneuver on slightly bigger and steeper waves.But it just has too much volume to push under the surf--especially rough surf. However, on days with stronger and more vertical waves, I need to explore a more realistic option for getting out back and catching waves that are punchy and more vertical.

What is wrong with just Turtle rolling / Eskimo roll your long(er) boards ?

I really think you're putting the Cart in front of the Horse. Getting a board with the purpose of duck diving but yet you still aren't proficient at cut backs, is counter-productive. The skill needed to duck dive is probably harder than learning how to cutback.

[warkick]

I surf mid length boards that are not duck divable. What I do instead is (besides reading the lineup and avoiding situations that require it) a duck dip or half duck dive. I push the nose vertically down as deep as I can and dive my body deeper right before the wave hits and the wave pushes the tail down and I pull the nose up (on waves that have broken already). Works similar to a duck dive

Thanks, "oldman"! This is an interesting point. A technique that I've kind of stumbled into--but not executing at all! Do you push down at all with your knee or foot?

[warkick]

using the 8.3 as a step-down since it is easier to maneuver on slightly bigger and steeper waves.But it just has too much volume to push under the surf--especially rough surf. However, on days with stronger and more vertical waves, I need to explore a more realistic option for getting out back and catching waves that are punchy and more vertical.

What is wrong with just Turtle rolling / Eskimo roll your long(er) boards ?

Nothing! But it's exhausting once you've done 3 or 4 in a row!

I really think you're putting the Cart in front of the Horse. Getting a board with the purpose of duck diving but yet you still aren't proficient at cut backs, is counter-productive. The skill needed to duck dive is probably harder than learning how to cutback.

Possibly getting ahead of myself, so I appreciate the astute comments. Based on some of the feedback, sounds like I should be more concerned about executing basic skills on the long boards and mid-lengths. It all builds on itself--more time in the water is what I need!!

[waikikikichan]

Nothing! But it's exhausting once you've done 3 or 4 in a row!

Possibly getting ahead of myself, so I appreciate the astute comments. Based on some of the feedback, sounds like I should be more concerned about executing basic skills on the long boards and mid-lengths. It all builds on itself--more time in the water is what I need!!

Everyone gets tired after pushing thru 4- 5- 6- +. That's where you have to use more brain than brawn.
1) Are you paddling back the right route ? ( sometimes turning back around a heading straight back to the peak isn't the fastest or easiest route )
2) Are you turtle rolling correctly ?

As you gain more basic skills and learn to surf the whole wave along with kicking out on the shoulder ( or before it closes out ) it will then be easy to get back out.

[oldmansurfer]

I surf mid length boards that are not duck divable. What I do instead is (besides reading the lineup and avoiding situations that require it) a duck dip or half duck dive. I push the nose vertically down as deep as I can and dive my body deeper right before the wave hits and the wave pushes the tail down and I pull the nose up (on waves that have broken already). Works similar to a duck dive

Thanks, "oldman"! This is an interesting point. A technique that I've kind of stumbled into--but not executing at all! Do you push down at all with your knee or foot?

No I actually hold the board between my legs so when I pull up it pivots off my legs and often come up sitting on the board. Not sure why I do that but it helps me to look out quickly for the next wave so I can prepare for it. I suppose it surprises other surfers to see someone come up out of the water sitting on their board. I usually quickly look out and immediately lay down and paddle out. The knee in a duckdive is to push the board further down but in the duck dip the wave does that.

[warkick]

Nothing! But it's exhausting once you've done 3 or 4 in a row!

Possibly getting ahead of myself, so I appreciate the astute comments. Based on some of the feedback, sounds like I should be more concerned about executing basic skills on the long boards and mid-lengths. It all builds on itself--more time in the water is what I need!!

Everyone gets tired after pushing thru 4- 5- 6- +. That's where you have to use more brain than brawn.
1) Are you paddling back the right route ? ( sometimes turning back around a heading straight back to the peak isn't the fastest or easiest route )

*I've learned to find channels and rips to get out back quickly on the paddle out, especially since I'm always at a beach break on a long board. On bigger days or days with stronger wind and currents it can be pretty easy to get pushed out of position. So yes, I think sometimes I'm getting caught closer to the impact zone. Especially as you mentioned when I'm paddling back out after catching a wave. When this happens, turtle roll (or just diving under the wave when there's no one nearby) seems to be the only option.

2) Are you turtle rolling correctly ?
**Possibly not. Maybe sticking the first one, but flubbing after that. I find it's much tougher by the second or third consecutive turtle roll to actually roll straight back onto the board. At that point I'm just fighting through--and maybe getting lucky at a lull between sets or getting blown into a rip! Hah, hah.

As you gain more basic skills and learn to surf the whole wave along with kicking out on the shoulder ( or before it closes out ) it will then be easy to get back out.

***Yeah, that'll be the day!
Thanks so much for the pointers! I'll keep at it. Even the roughest, longest paddle out is better than none at all!

[warkick]

I surf mid length boards that are not duck divable. What I do instead is (besides reading the lineup and avoiding situations that require it) a duck dip or half duck dive. I push the nose vertically down as deep as I can and dive my body deeper right before the wave hits and the wave pushes the tail down and I pull the nose up (on waves that have broken already). Works similar to a duck dive

Thanks, "oldman"! This is an interesting point. A technique that I've kind of stumbled into--but not executing at all! Do you push down at all with your knee or foot?

No I actually hold the board between my legs so when I pull up it pivots off my legs and often come up sitting on the board. Not sure why I do that but it helps me to look out quickly for the next wave so I can prepare for it. I suppose it surprises other surfers to see someone come up out of the water sitting on their board. I usually quickly look out and immediately lay down and paddle out. The knee in a duckdive is to push the board further down but in the duck dip the wave does that.

*Ahh, I see. I'd get a kick out of watching someone pop out of the water directly into a sitting position! Sounds like it's worth a few tries. Could also see the board shooting back up into the face!

[warkick]

Updating this post about a year after the initial question. I've taken all the advice received and I'm surfing the 8.3 pintail egg a lot more. It's super quick and drivey, was a big change from the 9.6 and 10 foot logs I'd previously been surfing. In addition, it's not designed for walking, just catch the wave and point down the line! So this follow-up is actually a fin question, related to stability and drag. It's a 2+1, and initially I had an 8.6 inch center fin and 4 inch side bytes. There was so much drag on a big day I had problems getting out back. It was even tougher than the bigger longboards, which was one of the reasons I asked in the previous post about duck diving! Glad I took everyone's advice and didn't go smaller! the solution seemed to be changing the fin size to a seven inch center and 2 inch side bytes. This vastly improved my ability to catch waves and get out back through rougher surf. But I wonder, am I surfing with the right fins? For me, it works, but maybe I just better understand surfing this particular board. As opposed to the longer boards, it's also pretty good in 3-4 foot surf at punchy beach breaks, but surprisingly, it's also much less stable when there's a strong side shore or onshore wind than the longboards. I'd always heard the ideal fin size is about an inch per board length, but on this board it doesn't work. Maybe better without the side bytes as a single fin? Is this an issue related to total volume when you add in the side bytes?

[Geezer]

Inch per foot of board length is a good starting point. Other design features can factor as well as wave size, power, rider and board weight, tail width……also this rule is for single fin surfing. If 2+1 you will take the total fin area of all 3 fins into account. An example is that on my 9’4” longboard I use a 9” single in 3’ and less and a 9.75” 4a fin in over 3’. I’ll ride the same board as a 2+1 with a 7.5” cutaway and two 3.25” bites.

In the end I have a fin “bucket” (actually a small chest of drawers) full of fins and some of the fun is to play around with different fins and fin combinations.

Whatever feels good!

[warkick]

Thank you -- the whatever feels good philosophy is how I ultimately and ignorantly downsized the fins and side bites to get a more sensible total area measurement it seems. I've found that I actually like to go a little smaller with single fins--maybe 8 inches for an 8.6 board and 9 for a 9.6.

And as you've pointed out, one has to consider the tail width and general weather conditions.Since the pintail doesn't have much width, I guess this probably means a smaller fin.

[waikikikichan]

Is your sidebites FCS or Future Fins ?

[warkick]

Is your sidebites FCS or Future Fins ?

They are Futures compatible by True Ames. I ultimately liked the feel of the 7" center fin with the really small 2.6" side bites. Otherwise, I was using an 8.6" and 8" center with the 3.7" side bites. Way too much area, I think.

https://www.trueames.com/collections/side-bites

[waikikikichan]

Try installing Future Fins T-1 thermotech side fins with a Trues Ames 2.5 center fin. That set up is called a "Twin-Stabi".
Those will be super fun in beach break waves.

[warkick]

Try installing Future Fins T-1 thermotech side fins with a Trues Ames 2.5 center fin. That set up is called a "Twin-Stabi".
Those will be super fun in beach break waves.

Cool! I'll give that a shot!