New epoxy, its slow.

[naniekso]

its a 6'2 x 21 x 2.37 epoxy. Super floaty but its lacking drive. Its a fish with a small swallow tail. I don't know if i'm still too big for the board, or if the fins are slowing it down. I took it to small 2ft waves and it kinda road slow. So i had the middle fin taken out, however today when i went to do the biggest snap of my life(i put sooo much energy into it) the board spun out and i landed on my ass on top of the board sitting down. haha it was kinda cool, everyone was like dude that guys sooo good! Turned the board around to discover the plugs broke with the fin still intact. Like the acctual plug in the board was moved to the left or right. Anyway once i get that fixed any ideas on how to gain drive? I know how to pump and everything but standing still i feel like it just dragged on. Maybe too much tail rocker? pics up tomorrow

[captain mainwaring]

isnt the centre fin there to give drive, by taking it out you are going to slow it down, are you not a narrow tail is going to slow a board down, wide tail adds speed.

[kitesurfer]

Yeah defo post up some pics, especially a side profile showing all the rocker.

KS

[trifish]

Whats your weight? Surfing small waves is all about staying where the energy is strongest. im 170 and can catch some punchy 2 ft waves as long as it has a decent lip and curl. 2 ft soft rolling waves are not a easy thing to do and usually i have to surf them so conservative or else it dies out. Groms make it look easy since they only have to get half as much weight moving, so it takes less energy from the wave. Also could be the board, I have ridden some bad designs that feel night and day from other ones. Retro twin keel fish always worked best for me in really small surf. I was out a few days back in some 2ft softys and there was a big guy ripping harder then the rest of us in the lineup, even the lighter guys. He had to have been 6'3" 225+ and was riding one of those firewire dominator boards pretty short.

[IB_Surfer]

It might not be the center fin at all. So let me start with some questions:

What fins are you using? FCS or Futures? and what type, M7, M5, FEA450? Post up and will follow up.

[naniekso]

hah ok im 208 lost 2 lbs finnaly. I took it out on small waves but even then it felt alittle lacking but that could be cause of the slow longboard waves I was on. reguardless here are some pictues







these fins are all the same size kinda big in my opinion, they all look almost alike. There is no angle a.t all and no rotation along the z axis. These are the comparisons to my other fish that i like



notice the z rotation and the slight bend angle? It produces drive(i think)

anyway i always hated fcs for a poor fin design, now I have to fix this. do i just pull out the plugs and fill with the epoxy putty?

[kitesurfer]

Right first off that looks like a home made board to me. The rocker is ok but if anything the tail rocker is too progressive. Also the rail shape at the tail looks odd to me. You need the edge to be sharpe to help the water release off the bottom of the board in this area.
When you say there is no rotation along the z axis can you elaborat a little more? The leading edge of the thruster(side) fins should be a little closer(about 1/4 inch) to the centre of the board than the trailing edge of the fin. This is the toe in. On this type of board there should also be a small angle to the bottom flat of the board (this is known as cant)
Drive is created by directing the flow of water out from the fins. This is where the toe in and foil shape of the fins help. The cant of the fin crates lift at the nose not drive!
I suspect the problem may lie with the fin positioning and the choice of fins, certainly the rail shape around the tail will be slowing it down in my opinion. Standard fcs fins are not reknowed for being the best as well.
Easiest thing to do first is try a different set of fins in it but definately keep all 3 in.
Let us know a bit more about the side fin positions.

KS

[trifish]

I would question the design. I cant imagine water flowing efficiently on it. The kick in the tail doesnt really concern me since most boards I make I like to put a little extra rocker in the tail (around 2.5inches) and I still ride these in smaller waves, but the nose rocker and release seems really abrupt. If I picture that board laying flat on a wave I can imagine that nose pushing alot of water like a plow slowing you down. Tail seems to soft and thick on the rails since u really want a knife edge back there like Kite mentioned. I cant see the fin positions but like Kite mentioned a 1/4 inch toe in is mostly the standard for shapers. So the nose is keeping your board from gliding well and the rails are keeping you from building speed. Changing fins wont help a bad design, thats my thoughts.

[naniekso]

ok sweet i like these inputs haha. when i took it on a smal wave, i was able to snap with it. it seemed like I had to do extra work to get it to move. The rotation of the fin on the z access is what i think you call cant. its when your looking at a birds eye view and you see a slight twist with the base of the fin. As in like if you look at a cars' wheel and its turned left or right from birds eye view lol(bad example). The board also has kind of a cork screw turn to it if thats what you mean by cant of the board. like if you look at the tail and then straight, the nose of the board is not lined up with the tail's v. also when i compare it to my 6'6 its like lackign glide, thougth that could be the 4'' haha. Anyway i did like the board, but now i feel as if i landed on a bad investment. I do plan on fixing the plug and then maybe trying to sell the board. It does have eps foam though i presume, or else it wouldnt float me. Its a board that was from brazil, so I had to use a metric alan haha.

anyway it felt like it really moved around on a small wave. I didn't know what to think because this is my first small board. reguardless i traded a bad board for it haha. Maybe soon I will be able to make my own composite fins within our schools lab. SO

the fins have no toe, or cant. they are just flat. look like all three are center fins. reguarding trifish's post, it probably is a bad design too huh? I could probably just grind away the back to smooth it out and make it a knife edge, i wouldn't mind doing that but most likely i'll try to sell it on craigslist and deal with different problems later.

[trifish]

Heres a example of Toe In and Cant. I mostly work with future fin boxes where the boxes go in straight, and all the toe/cant adjustments are molded into the fins. This isnt always the case though, glass ons need to be set obviously, but maybe the guy that made your board decided to add the adjustments in the plugs for some reason. You can measure the distance between the top of the front fins and the rear of the front fins and see if theres a difference. If the plugs are straight and he just put all center fins in for some odd reason then pick up a new set first before doing anything drastic. By the time you try to reshape a rail, spend money on epoxy/glass, time to reglass, sand, etc.. it wouldnt be worth the trouble. I would say if your having fun on the board then keep it, if you are noticing problems with it then just sale it and put the money towards something more complete.

[naniekso]

aw that picture is amazing.

ok so the board's fins have NO cant and NO toe. It could most likely be the fins then. I will switch the fins with my other fcs board and see if that does the trick once i fix the plugs. Which brings me to the next problem. how do i fix the plugs? haha.


i deduced that i take out the two plugs fill the hole halfway with the epoxy mixing stuff add some fiberglass batch and push the plugs back into it. then the rest i just spread on the tail and what not?

[trifish]

if the plug feels loose then you need to pull it out. The proper way is a plunge type router, but the main idea is you need to get it out with destroying as little around it as possible. Ive tooken them out with sharp blades before when I had no other options. Once you get it out, clean the edges up some with sand paper, get a new plug if yours is busted, then pick you up some epoxy resin , hardener and fiberglass from a surf shop. Chop of some of the fiberglass into fine pieces and mix it into the resin and add your hardener. Pour some into your holes. Tape the top of the plug off with masking tape so you dont get resin leaking into your plug then drop it in. For extra reinforcement you can cut a football shaped patch out of the fiberglass cloth and lay that over your plug holes , then once it all dries you can grind off the top of the area where the plugs are so you can get your fins back into the holes. Sand the area and your good to go.

[naniekso]

ahh thank you. I do like the football shape fiberglass on top, that sounds like a really good idea. I'll post pictures of my terrible repair!

[kitesurfer]

No toe in or cant and 3 centre fins !!!! OMG no wonder it has no drive. The no toe in on the fins will be the biggest factor here then and the only real way to fix that is to pull all the plugs out and start again. Only problem with that is you will have fin plug holes in the wrong place, etc etc. As has been already suggested, if you are catching waves and having fun then leave it as is once you have fixed the broken fin.

KS

[donhoe]

Real men don't use "OMG" J/K
On my way Tri ...

[kitesurfer]

Real men don't use "OMG" J/K
On my way Tri ...

Or smilies! *resists urge to use winking smiley*

KS

[IB_Surfer]

Your board is a generic popout, custom shapers don't use a sanchwich constrution design (a hard layer of epoxy over the core then paint over) which might be why the fin broke off for no good reason.

Thanks for the picture of the fin. Does it have the size on it? I don't think so, so I am going to guess they are generic G7 fins, standard big guy configuration. They are made to keep the board from sliding in big surf but the drawback is that it slows the board down in smaller surf, significally. Also, G series fins, the black ones, are thicker and have less foil than the newer templates.

Pick up a set of M5's, the standard mid size fins, or maybe even something fun like DHD's or, my favorites, GMB's. They are smaller, thinner and thus will release easier than your fins. Also, instead of no center fin, try a smaller center fin, most thruster fishes come with a smaller trailer. If you want a set-up that already comes with a smaller center fin GYU and K2.1 fins come with a smaller trailer, thus looser and more glide.

As to board size, looks like you'r spot on for your weight, my summer fish is 6'1 x 20 1/2" x 2 5/8", so I think just a fin swap should do it for you.

[naniekso]

Your board is a generic popout, custom shapers don't use a sanchwich constrution design (a hard layer of epoxy over the core then paint over) which might be why the fin broke off for no good reason.

Thanks for the picture of the fin. Does it have the size on it? I don't think so, so I am going to guess they are generic G7 fins, standard big guy configuration. They are made to keep the board from sliding in big surf but the drawback is that it slows the board down in smaller surf, significally. Also, G series fins, the black ones, are thicker and have less foil than the newer templates.

Pick up a set of M5's, the standard mid size fins, or maybe even something fun like DHD's or, my favorites, GMB's. They are smaller, thinner and thus will release easier than your fins. Also, instead of no center fin, try a smaller center fin, most thruster fishes come with a smaller trailer. If you want a set-up that already comes with a smaller center fin GYU and K2.1 fins come with a smaller trailer, thus looser and more glide.

As to board size, looks like you'r spot on for your weight, my summer fish is 6'1 x 20 1/2" x 2 5/8", so I think just a fin swap should do it for you.

Yeah i switched the fins to some techfoils 460s. i'll test it out on thursday on 4-5ft, as for the ding i alwys do bad jobs repairing, but i found that the plugs had been broken before and the person who had this board sometime ago must have just filled it and put them back in not properly. But more importantly the acctual fcs plugs give the fins no cant what so ever. I dont think its too much of a concern, but i did switch the fins and I hope it helps. mathteacher, what did you think about a 6'3 x 20 x 2.25 inch thick swallow tail? i'm considering trading my 6'6 x 21.5 x 2.625 retro fish.

[IB_Surfer]

[quote="naniekso] mathteacher, what did you think about a 6'3 x 20 x 2.25 inch thick swallow tail? i'm considering trading my 6'6 x 21.5 x 2.625 retro fish.[/quote]

I owned a thinner fish, 6'1 x 20 x 2.25. To me it felt more like a shortboard. I could ride it, no problem, so will should be able to use a 6'3", but I use fishes specifically for big mush days and small wave days, shortboards the rest of the time.

By the way, like you I got rid of my 6'6 retro a few weeks ago, my new board is a custom hybrid 6'1 x 20.75 x 2.65 epoxy, paddles and rides almost the same with 5" less lenght and better action.

Lastly, after much trial and error, I prefer quad fishes to twin or thruster fishes. Better hold in steep waves but almost as much paddle as a twin fin.

Hope that helps

[naniekso]

teach your troubles saves me trouble haha. i just want something that i can go up and down with really fast and turn really hard. like this board in this thread, i tested it today, its amazing! but like i said i've never had a smaller board like it so i couldn't tell if it could be any better*though it obviously could be* and thats why i want to get rid of my retro fish and slip into a smaller better designed fish. i ate two foot long sandwiches after my session today and i feel like i may not float well tomorrow lol.