high volume short boards vs similar volume bigger boards?

[benjl]

Hey guys

I haven't really paid much attention to the grovel boards that have been coming out as i'd always basically kept an all-round shortboard for everything bigger than small waves and a 8'0 mini-mal type board for when it is really small.

However, one of my mates got one of those 'lost RV' boards which is only 6'3 but has over 48l of volume!! I couldn't beleive it when my old torq 6'6 fish is only 40l and I thought that had quite a bit of volume for its size

I quite like my 8'0 but it's just a hassle trying to take it anywhere and when the RV has about the same volume as a typical 7'4 minimal but without all the downsides (extra weight, longer / harder swing volume, higher risk of pearling and can eaisly fit in the car WITH multiple friends boards). I find it hard on paper to see why I shouldn't trade in my bigger boards and just downsize my quiver to just 2x 6'3 boards, one for mush + and one for better waves. At least it would be easier to switch between the two whereas changing from my current epoxy 6'3 to the 8'0 board takes a few waves and 20min or so to acclimatise each time.

Have any of you tried these types of performance grovel boards in comparison to the typical mini mal and how did you find them? The RV seems to say it can handle up to 1-6ft so even if the swell picks up it should handle it.


Cheers!

[drowningbitbybit]

I'm not a big fan... at that width and thickness, I find that it's like standing on an inflatable lilo rather than a surfboard. And it feels (to me) like you're surfing on top of the water, rather than engaging with the water

I think the high-volume grovellers are a good board to have in your quiver, but not as a go-to board. For tiny waves, they're kinda fun in a slidey way, but I can't imagine taking them out in serious surf. I've seen them ridden well, but for me, nah.

Personally, I'd rather go for a proper but large shortboard, by which I mean keep the shortboard shape and keep the width/thickness reasonable, but add some length and some volume towards the front.
My normal board is 6'2, but I have a 6'10 x 21" x 2 3/4 that I take out when it's small (or when I'm feeling fat and unfit...) that catches more or less anything but still retains (just) that shortboard feeling.

[waikikikichan]

benji - have you ridden road bikes before ? Manufacturers used to list weights in their catalogs. The weight weenies would be on the forums saying brand A was 20 grams lighter than brand B. ( now some don't list weights because some makers were weighing the tiniest frame sizes or fudging parts ) Some would debate that Aluminum is lighter than steel. And Carbon fiber was lighter than Aluminum. But once a CF frame gets a nick, catastrophic failure might suddenly happen, while a damaged steel frame can be bent back to shape. Funny, now people say that aluminum's ride is too harsh and how steel feels "alive".

So what am I trying to say....... forget about those "volume calculators". Ride the boards. Find out what works for you. There's is more than LxWXH, volume and weight. Remember what Duke Kahanamoku said " ride the wave, not the board". I remember you saying , one of your best rides ever was on a 7'6" NSP funboard molded epoxy "pop-out". That had way way more volume and quite longer.

[jaffa1949]

I'm very much of the school of get a good basic board that can cover most of the range you aspire to surf and take to being able to ride well under all those conditions.
Learn what make one board function and then use the knowledge across a quiver with a full set of skills.
A for instance I ride the same board as big as I'm up for and then down to as small as it can ride, I know my board and what it is able to do in that range.
The only things that are not in my skill set are aerials of any sort

[dtc]

Dont get too seduced by volume - its not the be all and end all. As DBB pointed out, a 48l short board will surf very differently to a 48l mid length. Which is not to say that you wont enjoy the shorter board, but its not as simple as saying 'same volume, same thing'

A friend of mine, who is a good surfer, has a grovellor board (a firewire one). He says its really skatey, totally loose with not much drive- so you can zip around really easily on the fairly unstable surface (so long as you get keep your speed up), but its not for bigger waves (where you totally lose control) and its especially bad on bumpy/windy waves - needs a smooth surface. Probably related to DBBs comment that you surf on the water - so any bumps and you are just up against it

So keep in mind that a grovellor board is not a simple substitute for a mid length, despite the volume. Its probably a much more limited board - you may well suit it, have fun with it; go for it if you want. But if you want a shorter board for small waves, think about a mid length (like 7ft2 - 4 or maybe even a big 6ft10 like DBB has); but even here keep in mind that its not the same as a longboard and doesn't surf the same way

[BaNZ]

I'm not a big fan... at that width and thickness, I find that it's like standing on an inflatable lilo rather than a surfboard. And it feels (to me) like you're surfing on top of the water, rather than engaging with the water

Sorry to hijack the thread. But I think I'm also experiencing a similar problem. I got a 6"3 with 36L volume but I'm only 63kg. I feel like I'm riding on top of the water and it just feels very odd and it's like I'm sliding all over the place.

[oldmansurfer]

I haven't tried a lot of boards but when I realized that my 9'6" longboard was limiting what I wanted to do on waves my neighbor let me use his 7 foot fish. This was a thick and wide fish but it paddled really well and got into steep waves better than my longboard and the turning seemed quite similar except with the lonboard I could feel the weight of it as I turned but for some reason the fish was really hard to stay on in whitewater so if i was turning off a crumbling section of the wave It would toss me off the board. I think maybe due to the width of the tail. I only rode it backside so not sure how it would have performed frontside. So my limited experience says wider boards have some issues but thickness not so much.

[waikikikichan]

Banz - "I feel like I'm riding on top of the water and it just feels very odd and it's like I'm sliding all over the place." - Try look at the deck pressures or dirty wax marks, I think you're riding too forward. The rudder isn't engage in the water. That's actually what the modern surfers do like John John and Julian, when they do fin free turns. When i try a new board and it feels too loose, the usual remedy is to move my back foot more over the fins.

[oldmansurfer]

The other part of higher volume beside width which alters how the board works a lot is thickness and if done right has minimal effect on the performance other than for duck diving and paddling. If the thicker board has thicker rails this will affect how it performs but if the rails are kept thinner and the thickness away from the edge so a normal shaped rail that tapers up to the full thickness it won't make too much difference in handling

[waikikikichan]

Before someone gets it in their mind about designing a board by "adding more volume" but keeping "high performance" rails, think about this. If the rail is "high performance" tapered and thin with the deck thickness on the stringer at 2 inches, what happens when you add more volume ( say 1/4 inch ) to the center ?
The deck becomes "domed". Skateboards have a concave deck to lock in your foot. Convex goes the other way. Imagine standing on a domed roof, once you move from center, you start to slide off. If you keep the deck relatively flat, then the rail abruptly drops down to the thin edge. One way is you could put a "step deck", looks a bit funky ( lots of SUP utilize that design ).

Again, treat the surfboard as a whole. It's not just volume, or rail, or 4 fins, or CF, or epoxy. You can't just change one thing without affecting something else.

[oldmansurfer]

I did not mean a rounded top board more like this one

[waikikikichan]

this deck would be fun. keeps your foot planted and lots of volume yet tapered at the rail.

concave-deck-FFF-idea.jpg (11.32 KiB) Viewed 5611 times

[oldmansurfer]

My board is slowly getting there.... first a concave where my rear foot goes and now one where my front foot goes. I wonder what it feels like to paddle that board? I wonder if they will ever have foot placement slots you know like recessed areas to place your feet so they are in the right place and don't slide? I wonder if there is a reason to have more floatation around the edges? I need to go surf I am thinking too much

[asilomarsurfer]

I surfed a board with a concave deck and paddling felt essentially the same. It's more of an aesthetic thing, really.