Am I at fault here?

[HaoleKook]

I was surfing Canoes (Waikiki) at 5:30pm. There’s a main break farther out and a second smaller break closer in. Everyone was at the first break, but It was pretty flat and nothing was breaking there. So I was at the second break, watching and waiting for waves with enough energy and enough space. A wave comes, tons of people paddle for it and only 2 people pick it up, off to my right. So I start paddling at the 2nd break, there’s literally gobs of open ocean around me, just as I’m about to pop up someone smacks into the front of my board. He’s a local guy, starts yelling that I owe him money, that I ‘did it on purpose" etc. I didn’t know what to do. He was pretty bent out of shape, and another guy comes up and says he’s the wrong one to aggravate and I should leave, so I did.

I’ve been surfing this break for weeks. It’s usually packed with novices and people riding relatively straight in. I know the rule about priority but nobody at canoes follows it, and generally people aren’t riding across the wave face so it’s not as big if an issue I guess. I mean, if I saw anyone remotely close to me on the wave I’d have passed. I wasn’t expecting anyone to come up on me like that, and also would have thought anyone riding like that would have some control of their board. That’s where I wonder if I was wrong in any way?

I try so hard to be respectful and stay out of the way. My instructor says it’s the one thing holding me back, but I’d rather pass on every wave then have stuff like this happen. I purposely stayed off the breaks with better the surfers that make more turns and use more of the wave face. It’s usually packed there and I always have to control my board and avoid people, so I just don’t understand how I got hit so hard by a seasoned surfer with so much open water around?! I’ve been told about a little game the locals play where they see how close they can get to people - maybe that’s what this was? I felt terrible about his board, not even thinking my board got hit hard, too.

This is pretty upsetting and I feel like crap. I was told to just paddle away, if it was really my fault I want to take responsibility, but the guy didn’t seem very rational, so I just don’t know.

[HaoleKook]

I guess it doesn’t matter, if it was my fault it was an accident, and either way I’m sure I’ll be ‘even more’ careful about dropping in, particularly when it’s a little less crowded like that.

[Lebowski]

It sounds like it was technically your fault. You should have looked either way and been aware of other surfers already riding. They don't just appear out of nowhere. Came out of nowhere = didn't look properly. However, it sounds like the guy was also a complete d!ck about it. It takes 2 people to collide.

I had something fairly similar years ago. Myself and another surfer took off at the same time on a wave. When we took off we were quite far apart, but we both rode towards each other (beach break). I decided to pull off, but as we got close, he seemed to decide to slam the nose of his board into the underside of mine as hard as he could rather than avoiding each other. He then started screaming and claiming I 'owed him money' and I'd broken his magic board (which was very old and severely yellowed). My brand new board had a hole almost all the way through the middle of it, whilst his beater had about 1" of the nose damaged.

I seriously considered telling him to go forth, but in the end, to keep the peace I gave him some cash, even though I'd place most of the blame with him.

Ultimately, as with all walks of life, there are plenty of idiot surfers and sometimes there will be confrontations like this. Most people seem to do a decent job of avoiding collisions, but everyone's risk tolerance is different and some cut it too close.

[waikikikichan]

A wave comes, tons of people paddle for it and only 2 people pick it up, off to my right. So I start paddling at the 2nd break, there’s literally gobs of open ocean around me, just as I’m about to pop up someone smacks into the front of my board.

So he miraculously appeared from out of the sky or was he one of the two people that picked up the wave at "A" point ( also known as Harada's Reef ) ?

I’ve been surfing this break for weeks. It’s usually packed with novices and people riding relatively straight in. I know the rule about priority but nobody at canoes follows it, and generally people aren’t riding across the wave face so it’s not as big if an issue I guess. I mean, if I saw anyone remotely close to me on the wave I’d have passed. I wasn’t expecting anyone to come up on me like that, and also would have thought anyone riding like that would have some control of their board. That’s where I wonder if I was wrong in any way?

I have been surfing that break, my favorite in the whole world, for TWENTY-FIVE years. I know everyone there and they know me. Yes, it's packed with beginners who can only go straight, BUT ................ there are locals that surf there that don't ONLY go straight.
So you're telling me HE should have been able to "control his board" and avoid hitting you ? You're saying Canoes is for beginners that go straight and that good surfers should go to some other break ( like Queens or Pops ) ?

I’ve been told about a little game the locals play where they see how close they can get to people - maybe that’s what this was?

Really ? Who told you that ? I want you to confirm whothat person is to me. Trust me, we don't waste our time playing games like that.

This is pretty upsetting and I feel like crap. I was told to just paddle away, if it was really my fault I want to take responsibility, but the guy didn’t seem very rational, so I just don’t know.

So you think you should have stayed ? You think you could have reasoned with him at that moment ? Next time you surf at Canoes and you see him out at the line up, what are you going to do ?

But to answer your question......... YES, it is 100% your fault. ( And I'm not going to go into further detail why, as you can figure it out on your own ) And you are lucky that you could paddle away.

[HaoleKook]

Thanks Lebowski, that helps.

I accept fault, I'm just answering these questions for clarity, so I can learn and hopefully avoid situations like this in the future.

So he miraculously appeared from out of the sky or was he one of the two people that picked up the wave at "A" point ( also known as Harada's Reef ) ?

He was one of the two from A on the right side of the wave, I was on the left. It seemed like they were so far away that it shouldn't have been an issue.

So you're telling me HE should have been able to "control his board" and avoid hitting you ? You're saying Canoes is for beginners that go straight and that good surfers should go to some other break ( like Queens or Pops ) ?

That isn't what I meant. It just seemed like he didn't make any effort to avoid the collision, and maybe could have been a little more aware (obviously I could have been more aware, too.)

So you think you should have stayed ? You think you could have reasoned with him at that moment ?

No, paddling away was the right advice and I'm glad there was someone there to offer it. I'm an honest guy, If I knew at the time it was my fault I'd have wanted to make it right, so paddling away with that uncertainty felt wrong. Had he said something rational like "you dropped in on me, didn't you see me?" I'd have asked what I could do to make it right. The way he reacted made me think maybe he realized he took a risk and missed, so I wasn't sure how much of the blame was mine.

Next time you surf at Canoes and you see him out at the line up, what are you going to do ?

I'll keep some cash in my scooter, maybe double what it cost to get my board fixed or something, and can offer it and apologize again if I see him. Is there anything else I can or should do?

Obviously I care enough about this to come and write about it. I want to do the right thing and learn from it, so thanks for being here and helping.

[Geezer]

Nobody comes out of nowhere. Obviously there was not gobs if open ocean around you and you were directly in the line. Part if learning tonsurf is learning to control your board which means looking before taking a wave and being able to pull off last second. Surfing in crowds magnifies this point.

A good point was made; what are you going to do when you see that guy again? You should apologize, pay and learn a lesson from this. Could have been worse for sure if he'd run you over, smashed up either or both boards or worse.

Imagine you did that to his daughter. Would you expect rational discourse?! Should be happy he didnt rationally follow you back to the beach.

[Geezer]

I read this again….its hard to understand how you cannot accept responsibility for this. You said you saw this guy and one other catch the wave, then paddled for the same wave on an inside section, drop in without looking and HIT the guy on the wave, and still feel that there is at the least a shared responsibility, even questioning if you are at fault at all. Stripped down , it seems pretty clear.

Dropping in on someone at the start of a wave in crowds is one thing; seeing someone catch a wave then going for that wave and then dropping in and making contact when they are in full flight is an entirely different matter. He most likely even saw you look at him once he was was on the wave since thats what a food surfer would do, making sure that those down the line are aware youre on the way, potential situations. So he sees you look at him and then you still drop in and hit him. Still expect rational discourse? People get hurt surfing, heavy boards at speed, sharp fins, unforgiving marine environment. If you want this as a learning moment you need to consider how badly this potentially could have turned out. Mistakes happen, but you cant make this one again; it was completely avoidable, COMPLETELY your mistake. If you pull out into traffic without looking and get hit, are you questioning the control the other driver had over their car or lamenting that your vehicle was also damaged?!?


If you REALLY want to learn from this there’s a few things to take away beyond look before you go. You need to be aware of who is around you and what their ability is, what they will probably do on a wave so that you can better anticipate situations. Sitting and watching the break for a set will help with this before getting in. Ask questions mentally like who catches every wave they paddle for, who goes left even if the wave breaks right, whos a straight riding beginner and who can make sections? Who is getting pushed into waves in front of others? Lots of questions and ones you need to be continually asking and updating as the session goes on. This is particularly important in a crowd; it will mean the difference between getting waves and not most if the time. And more importantly, will keep you on the right side of things.

[HaoleKook]

Thank you for helping me pull my head out of my a$$. I understand it was 1000% my fault, I accept that responsibility and will offer to do what I can if/when I see him again.

I was just thinking I wouldn’t have taken that wave on any other break, so clearly I did everything wrong. I got used to surfing that spot in a crowd of beginners with everyone going for everything and banging into each other. Obviously this situation was different and I failed to treat it differently.

I’ve been thinking about this all day and still feel sick about it, at least that’s a good indicator I’ll be smarter going forward.

[HaoleKook]

I just went back with some cash to see if I could find him. He wasn’t t there so I just watched things. My God, I messed up, I COMPLETELY underestimated the speed of someone riding across a wave. I thought there was plenty of room, but in reality I dropped in right in front of him. It’s like I pulled onto a highway thinking it was a 15mph side street. Now it all makes sense, I understand what I did and honestly I feel like he’s one of the most gracious people I’ve come across! Beyond reasonable. I hope I can make it right.

[waikikikichan]

There's so much I want to tell you, but I'll let things calm down a bit. It may seem like the whole world is collapsing around you and that this is how things will end up being at that break. But let me tell you, it will come to pass. You live and learn. You will improve.

One silver lining you haven't noticed. You got some respect. "Hmmmm ...... how so ?", you may be thinking to yourself. If you were a beginner, he might have just said "idiot" and paddled away. Every local surfer knows if you surf at Canoes, you will get bangs and bumps from beginners. But because he "talked" to you, he in some way realizes you're more than just a beginner and should've known better.

I told you to learn the ropes and basics on that Gerry Lopez Softboard, but you were too hot up to gain some "respect" and not look like a kook.
Funny thing is if you were on the softboard, you wouldn't have dinged his board.

By the way,
1) Are you a regular or goofy footer ?
2) When you got up to your feet at B point, which way did you go, right or left ?
3) Did you actually get up and drop down into the wave, or were you still paddling ?

[HaoleKook]

Regular, I was on my last 2 paddles before pushing up, and I would have ridden straight in.

I can't wait see him and get through this, hopefully I've earned enough 'respect' that he'll give me a chance to try to make it right. I haven't been this affected by anything in a long time. I feel so sick.

I get your point about the foam board. I made a point to learn to grab my board whenever I go down, I just never imagined myself making such a ridiculously bad mistake.

[HaoleKook]

It may seem like the whole world is collapsing around you and that this is how things will end up being at that break. But let me tell you, it will come to pass. You live and learn. You will improve.

Thank you, I really appreciate this.

[waikikikichan]

I was on my last 2 paddles before pushing up,

Woah, woah. You were still paddling and hadn't even gotten to your feet when the guy hit the nose of your board ?

[HaoleKook]

Yes, that’s why I was confused about this at first.

[HaoleKook]

That’s why I thought maybe he was playing games. There was nobody left on break B except me at the left edge. It was wrong of me to take away the riders’ wide open wave, but i was shocked because he had all the time from break A to break B to see my laying on my board. There were other people including a couple 10-12 year old kids I see there all the time next to me who took the wave before, so I expected whoever was riding the wave would have been aware. With just me left he had the time from break A to break B to realize I was there, with only 1 other person on the wave and wide open ocean between us.

My gut feel at the time was he was trying to cut it close (riding left and carving INTO the wave) and maybe didn’t realize I’d be paddling that fast. It happened fast so maybe I misread that. But in my head I said “wow, so you’re really gonna do this?!” and I arched my back and dropped my feet in the water, about 3 inches too late.

I thought there was more time between us so it caught me off guard at the last second. If I realized he was coming up that quickly I would have had a better eye on him. I just thought he was farther away.

[GlassyLinesMP]

If someone is surfing towards you with priority on the wave, he will expect you to get out of the way, not to keep paddling for the wave.

In your defence he probably could have avoided the collision by being more open to the idea that you might not know to stop paddling. This does not make you right of course.

It’s great you are using this experience to learn the speed of surfing along the wave. This should help you with being safe, allowing you to surf closer with others and sticking to the rules of the waves to avoid collisions. You should also look to start surfing along the wave yourself how you see others doing it, rather than riding straight in.

Imo it should be a rule of surfing to avoid crashing at all costs. He could probably have crouched low and pushed your board off the wave like miki Dora, which is what I would have done in his shoes.

[waikikikichan]

He could probably have crouched low and pushed your board off the wave like miki Dora, which is what I would have done in his shoes.

By coincidence, I just made a post on that subject.
http://alohaki.jugem.jp/?month=202209

But surfing Reef break Waikiki Canoes is much different than where Miki Dora surfed at Point break Malibu.

[HaoleKook]

https://youtu.be/6nLr3gAU0tI?t=17
This is like a normal day at the break I surf (break B). It doesn't make what I did right, but it shows why I might have thought it was OK to share the wave if I just ride straight in.

https://youtu.be/McUcLSy7eKY?t=65
This next video (1:05 to 1:15) shows a wave with enough energy to make it from A past B, which is what happened when I crashed. Watch the girl in Black pop up at A, and the girl in Yellow pop up in front of her at B. Now imagine if Black cut across the nose of Yellow before she popped up! Yellow was wrong and shouldn't have gone, but a collision was easily avoided.

I'm just trying to get some perspective - yesterday I was considering offering a beautiful 8ft board as a peace offering, but now I'm thinking maybe $100 is appropriate.

[waikikikichan]

Some random thoughts ( as my mind is still blown by your thinkings )

1) When you were finishing up your paddle and were about to push up and then got hit, How long was it from the time you saw him on the wave to the impact ?
2) You said "is he really not going to turn ?", so you were "hoping" or "expecting" him to avoid hitting you ?
3) $100 bucks will help fix his board, but with your current mind set you're going to go broke for cash.
4) So if I am driving down the street. You see me and then pull out from your driveway and force me to jam on the brakes, is that okay ?
Like you said, they should see me and be able to go around or stop in time, right ?
5) You're going thru the stages. Confusion, denial, acceptance, bargaining.

You made a beginner mistake. That's fine, that's what beginners do when they are learning. Accidents happen.........But the KOOK part comes in when you blame/reason/excuse on everyone/everything. "Others drop in" "Others only go straight" "He could've turned"

Go ahead, keep that mindset. I want you to believe that wholeheartedly. Go to bed tonight repeating that.

But before that I want you to save and print out these two sentences.
Print them on paper, put them in an envelope marked " ** Do Not Open until 9/08/2027 ** "

Haolekook- "It just seemed like he didn't make any effort to avoid the collision, and maybe could have been a little more aware."

Lebowski - "Ultimately, as with all walks of life, there are plenty of idiot surfers and sometimes there will be confrontations like this. Most people seem to do a decent job of avoiding collisions, but everyone's risk tolerance is different and some cut it too close."

In 5 years, after learning the basics, learning the wave and the break, ( maybe establishing yourself as one of the locals at Canoes ), Then I want you to go and open that letter to yourself. Hopefully, you can reflect on this moment five years back, and realize how messed up your mindest / attitude was as a beginner. And five years later, I want you to determine who was who, in Lebowski's statement.

This exact event may happen to you before the five year mark. You are riding down the line from A point, connect to B point and some beginners sees you, but still goes. You both collide and he dings your board. I want you to say that it is your fault and that you should've turned away and avoided him better. Smile and wish him well.

[waikikikichan]

My gut feel at the time was he was trying to cut it close (riding left and carving INTO the wave) and maybe didn’t realize I’d be paddling that fast. It happened fast so maybe I misread that. But in my head I said “wow, so you’re really gonna do this?!” and I arched my back and dropped my feet in the water, about 3 inches too late.

I am thinking YOU may have hit him. He may have seen you and timed his cut back to go over your board/body but by you doing a Panic Stop, you changed the parameters. By arching your back and putting your feet in the water like anchors, the nose abruptly got flung upwards. Had you stayed down and used your hand/arms as brakes, there might not have been a collision. Another beginner mistake.

I was taking off Left on a wave at Canoes, and this beginner girl kept on dropping in on me a few times. I saw earlier that a few guys I've seen before at the break brought her out. They should have brought her to B point or maybe it was time for her to graduate to A.
After a few drop ins, I realized her paddling pace and technique. I go for a wave and already get up to my feet and cut early to set my rail and go high over her. But this time, she realizes I am there, panics and sits up on her board. I can't turn down or turn up, I have to hold my line. My side fin grazes the side of her head and she down in pain bleeding. I get her on my longboard, paddle on her board and get her into the lifeguard tower. Had she kept going, I would have easily cleared her and she would not even have known.