Speed Hull Takeoff advice

[shaaaaaan2020]

Any advice for surfing this type of board - 7'6 CJ Nelson outlier. it's listed as a speed hull + single fin.

Long story, my cousin bought it a few months back, but hurt his back bad - told me to ride it / test it out as long as I like. He'll sell it to me for a deal if I love it.

Took it out yesterday and it was surprisingly squirrely for how big it is (7'6"). Felt almost like a shortboard on takeoff.

Has a rolled vee in the nose - flat middle - slight concave in the tail. I think the rolled v on the nose is what's throwing me off - keeps bucking me on the pop up / take off. My current board is a 7'8 Water Hog - same amount of volume as this board more or less (53L), but has a deep concave nose - almost like a noserider shape for a long board. Basically, the polar opposite shaped nose.

Never been on a board with a hull shape and a single fin. It's not a hull all the way through - just in the nose. Anyway - feels really different. On the handful of waves I was able to get up on - the waves were 2 ft - I took off going straight more or less - once it got up to speed it seemed like it clicked into form and worked great.

On bigger waves 3-4ft - where I would normally angle my takeoff on my 7'8" water hog - I couldn't get the rail to engage on this board and it would just slip out and away from my hands.

Any advice - should I be taking off straight on all waves - leaning further back? I'm sure after a few sessions I'll figure it out - but wondering if ya'll had experience on similar style boards.

thanks!
sk

[Naeco78]

Rolled Vee is a significantly different board to ride. Its also known as a displacement hull and requires more of a front foot style of surfing. I have vintage one that I bought last year that I'm still getting used to. It's more for Point Breaks and open faced waves but I'm hoping to adjust to it for beach breaks because the ride is supposed to feel a lot more connected with the wave. The tail of the board submerges at higher speeds and makes for smooth flow. It's a lot more common in boards from the late 60's but I think it's coming back more with the retro movement.

[oldmansurfer]

A boat nose is meant to keep the board from slowing down when it contacts the water horizontal to the nose. On a normal flat nose or concave the board will slow down when you are taking a drop and the nose goes flush with the water because it pushes water in front of it. This will often cause a surfer to fall. The v helps to keep the board from pushing water as it will cut through the water instead sending water to the sides instead of pushing it. I don't think that is affecting your surfing unless it is more than just a few inches on the nose. My guess would be the rails or the tail design or the fins.

[Naeco78]

Here's a good video of an advanced surfer trying to make the switch to a 60's Vee bottom from Skip Frye. Shaped during his time at G&S. The vintage I have is a deeper Vee and more narrow than this one.. probably makes it even less stable on takeoffs.

[shaaaaaan2020]

A boat nose is meant to keep the board from slowing down when it contacts the water horizontal to the nose. On a normal flat nose or concave the board will slow down when you are taking a drop and the nose goes flush with the water because it pushes water in front of it. This will often cause a surfer to fall. The v helps to keep the board from pushing water as it will cut through the water instead sending water to the sides instead of pushing it. I don't think that is affecting your surfing unless it is more than just a few inches on the nose. My guess would be the rails or the tail design or the fins.

Hey man! Good to "see" you on here again. Followed your advice a few months back and grabbed a 7'8" - made a huge difference. Surfing with way more consistency and having way more fun on a bigger board. I think you're right re: this board ran this q past my neighbor who is a really experienced surfer and he claimed the vee in the nose actually makes it more stable. It has a domed deck and sharp rails - he suspects that's what makes it feel a little touchier. That and not having much experience on a single fin. Any advice on taking off on a single vs a thruster? Like, should I be popping up neutral (back foot in front of the fin) or popping up a little further back - like right over the fin. thx! sk

[shaaaaaan2020]

Rolled Vee is a significantly different board to ride. Its also known as a displacement hull and requires more of a front foot style of surfing. I have vintage one that I bought last year that I'm still getting used to. It's more for Point Breaks and open faced waves but I'm hoping to adjust to it for beach breaks because the ride is supposed to feel a lot more connected with the wave. The tail of the board submerges at higher speeds and makes for smooth flow. It's a lot more common in boards from the late 60's but I think it's coming back more with the retro movement.

Hey man - thx for writing and posting that video - if it's squirrely for Devon Howard - it'll be squirrely for me, for sure. I don't think mine is near as drastic a vee. Wondering if you had any advice - on pop up and takeoff on these kinds of boards. I can't really get the rail to engage laying on the board - right before I snap my legs up. Wondering if it's best to pop up a little straighter - let it generate speed - then the rails will start working.

Or just do what I'm doing, but keep my weight back. Are you popping up with your back foot right over the fin... or in front of the fin box?

Thx!
sk

[waikikikichan]

You hear me say "Fix the Indian not the arrow", but in the case of "Forward V", you can't really blame the rider. I hate Forward V. To me it "tracks" too much. In your case, maybe the rail isn't engaging because the bottom is taking over control. When you try to transition off the bottom to the rail, it just bucks you off, just like what happened to Devon.

[Naeco78]

Hey man - thx for writing and posting that video - if it's squirrely for Devon Howard - it'll be squirrely for me, for sure. I don't think mine is near as drastic a vee. Wondering if you had any advice - on pop up and takeoff on these kinds of boards. I can't really get the rail to engage laying on the board - right before I snap my legs up. Wondering if it's best to pop up a little straighter - let it generate speed - then the rails will start working.

Or just do what I'm doing, but keep my weight back. Are you popping up with your back foot right over the fin... or in front of the fin box?

Thx!
sk

I've been standing towards the center of the board and trying to keep my weight forward. It kinda feels like the board is plowing water, so I try to keep my weight and momentum forward. It's an older board, with the wide point forward, but I think it would be similar to yours.

The rail game is the tricky part for me. The board really rocks side to side way more than I'm used to at lower speeds like you were saying. The displacement hulls need lots of speed to hoist the front of the board out of the water. Think of it like a speed boat.. they have displacement hulls and work on the same principle. As the speed of the boat increases, the front of the boat rises up and out of the water, while the back of the boat usually submerges below sea level. Turning and performance increase dramatically at higher speeds. I think Devon eluded to that somewhat when he said the board became much more responsive while surfing in the pocket. The displacements hulls need that speed and momentum. The trick is generating that speed when you don't have a nice lined up wave, like at a point break. But I'm still in the trial and error phase there. It's just been a fun novelty board for now

[shaaaaaan2020]

You hear me say "Fix the Indian not the arrow", but in the case of "Forward V", you can't really blame the rider. I hate Forward V. To me it "tracks" too much. In your case, maybe the rail isn't engaging because the bottom is taking over control. When you try to transition off the bottom to the rail, it just bucks you off, just like what happened to Devon.

Haha - "I hate forward V" no bones about it. Yeah, it felt really.. dunno "slippery", is the only word I can think of. I used to have a 6'0" soft top log that I hated, because it would buck me off in the same way... but I always thought it was because it was so corky - thing was 6'0 and 53L and had a flat bottom. When I would pop up on it, it felt like it would fight me back - like push up back at me, and buck me off... instead of sinking into the wave a bit and beginning to engage the rail like PU does.

Anyway... wanna try it out a few more times before I give up on it. It's a really well-reviewed board. But I'm totally ready to accept that it might not be for me. Any advice on how you would surf it.. specifically with the pop up / and takeoff? When you say "transition off the bottom to the rail" you think its better to pop up going straight on a board like this... get a little speed going, then engage the rail? It feels like it wants to go fast to start working. And feels really unstable at slower speeds. Thanks!

[shaaaaaan2020]

Hey man - thx for writing and posting that video - if it's squirrely for Devon Howard - it'll be squirrely for me, for sure. I don't think mine is near as drastic a vee. Wondering if you had any advice - on pop up and takeoff on these kinds of boards. I can't really get the rail to engage laying on the board - right before I snap my legs up. Wondering if it's best to pop up a little straighter - let it generate speed - then the rails will start working.

Or just do what I'm doing, but keep my weight back. Are you popping up with your back foot right over the fin... or in front of the fin box?

Thx!
sk

I've been standing towards the center of the board and trying to keep my weight forward. It kinda feels like the board is plowing water, so I try to keep my weight and momentum forward. It's an older board, with the wide point forward, but I think it would be similar to yours.

The rail game is the tricky part for me. The board really rocks side to side way more than I'm used to at lower speeds like you were saying. The displacement hulls need lots of speed to hoist the front of the board out of the water. Think of it like a speed boat.. they have displacement hulls and work on the same principle. As the speed of the boat increases, the front of the boat rises up and out of the water, while the back of the boat usually submerges below sea level. Turning and performance increase dramatically at higher speeds. I think Devon eluded to that somewhat when he said the board became much more responsive while surfing in the pocket. The displacements hulls need that speed and momentum. The trick is generating that speed when you don't have a nice lined up wave, like at a point break. But I'm still in the trial and error phase there. It's just been a fun novelty board for now

[shaaaaaan2020]

Yeah - nabbed a few screenshots - he is way far up on the board. front foot is well past the midpoint. Should be fun to try and figure it out. Beachbreak should be interesting on this thing. It feels like it really wants to go - kind of intimidated by it. Feelings like I'm learning from scratch all over again. But that's good, I think. :0

[Naeco78]

Hey there's Noel Salas right behind him in that last pic.. it's like a where's Waldo of surfing lol. Now that's crowded

[Naeco78]

Here's one of the links I saved back when I first got into it.. might have some helpful info.

http://www.surfscience.com/topics/surfb ... ent-hulls/
“A real displacement hull almost requires you to surf in the middle of the board. You have to surf off the front foot. Normally, you can lean back on the tail. On a displacement hull, you step onto your front foot, bury the rail and let it go. Most people can’t make the adjustment. But once you do, it’s amazing. You really feel like you’re surfing through the water. You’re really more involved. It’s a very organic feeling.”

A displacement hull design has the ability to provide us with a great day of surfing in smaller surf. Pushing a surfboard through the water requires much less energy than a board planing on top of the water, making small pointbreak waves very ideal.

[ConcreteVitamin]

What's "forward" V? Any V that goes before the fin? I thought there's a cult following of select modern V-bottom boards.

[shaaaaaan2020]

Here's one of the links I saved back when I first got into it.. might have some helpful info.

http://www.surfscience.com/topics/surfb ... ent-hulls/
“A real displacement hull almost requires you to surf in the middle of the board. You have to surf off the front foot. Normally, you can lean back on the tail. On a displacement hull, you step onto your front foot, bury the rail and let it go. Most people can’t make the adjustment. But once you do, it’s amazing. You really feel like you’re surfing through the water. You’re really more involved. It’s a very organic feeling.”

A displacement hull design has the ability to provide us with a great day of surfing in smaller surf. Pushing a surfboard through the water requires much less energy than a board planing on top of the water, making small pointbreak waves very ideal.

This is great! thx dude!

[shaaaaaan2020]

What's "forward" V? Any V that goes before the fin? I thought there's a cult following of select modern V-bottom boards.

I have no idea haha - I've learned more about it in this thread than anywhere else. As I understand it - in my board... it's in the nose - it's slightly convex. the middle is flat and there is a slight concave going out the back... so I think that's what a forward vee is - but I could be wrong. Anyone on here wanna correct me?

sk

[oldmansurfer]

I am so clueless about what is popular LOL. That's interesting so a convex surface on the nose? How far back does that go? I imagine it will mostly make a difference on the drop because unless it goes way back it will come out of the water after you get speed unless you are standing forward on the board. The boards that I loved long ago had v by the tail and maybe slightly in front of the fin. Those boards would carve deeply into the wave. I just read that rolled rocker is supposed to assist rail to rail surfing making it easier to go rail to rail. I wonder why there needs to be an assist with that? Board design is so complex as there are so many variables that make a difference. Pretty sure I never surfed a board like that.

[shaaaaaan2020]

I am so clueless about what is popular LOL. That's interesting so a convex surface on the nose? How far back does that go? I imagine it will mostly make a difference on the drop because unless it goes way back it will come out of the water after you get speed unless you are standing forward on the board. The boards that I loved long ago had v by the tail and maybe slightly in front of the fin. Those boards would carve deeply into the wave. I just read that rolled rocker is supposed to assist rail to rail surfing making it easier to go rail to rail. I wonder why there needs to be an assist with that? Board design is so complex as there are so many variables that make a difference. Pretty sure I never surfed a board like that.

[shaaaaaan2020]

Jesus the photo editor on this thing stinks - anyway - grabbed a few shots of the bottom contours as best I could - rolled v up front that mellows out to flat just past mid board and into the tail

[Naeco78]

Nice board. That seems like a deep Vee to me. About the same as Surfboards La Jolla was doing back in the 60's.. except it looks like it runs almost the full length of the board.

It's a little hard to tell from this angle but I would guess it's about the same as yours at the nose. The edge on the rail runs almost thru the center point, between the deck and belly.