Yet another short board length/width/volume issue

[nativeFLSurfer43]

Hi all. Long time lurker here. First post. So much great advice on different threads that has helped my surfing a bunch! Figured I should get off my duff and jump in.

I'm 5'7 and 206 lbs. Not amazing shape, but not horrible either. Have lifted weights for many years so I fall on the husky end of the spectrum despite being relatively short. I'm a solid intermediate and can surf my performance long board (9'2" with thin rails and decent rocker in the nose) left and right, decent wave count, can turn, and lip bash/re-entry when the wave presents it the chance to do so (and I have my "ess" together).

Every session I take one of my short boards to practice stepping down. I used to ride short boards when I was a young fella but fell away from surfing due to life and work, returning back on long boards. Skated hardcore for 14 years, and still rode "lightly" after that. These days spend a lot of time on a Carver (they're dope btw) keeping my surf sensibilities between sessions. My board instincts are generally solid.

Here's my weird issue after all of that setup...About a year ago I purchased 2 grovel machines. Once 5'10 and the other 5'11. One is a double-ender and the other a more performance grovel shape. I can't seem to catch waves with them to save my life! The 5'10" is a Lost Bean Bag in poly, and the 5'11" is a Quiet Flight Antihero shaped here in Cocoa Beach FL. They are both dope boards I'm sure. Tried them in different fin configs with no luck.

I also have one longer, foiled-out, narrow, elf shoe board from the late 90's/00's. It's a 6'6" and it's narrow as hell and super light. For kicks, after struggling every time out on the grovel boards, I took the HPSB out with me instead. After a raging long board session and catching some fun thigh to waist waves at one of my favorites, I decided to take ole Elf Shoe out for a crack at the steep low tide bashers. SUPER low expectations on my end considering the board type and the waves that day. I was able to catch waves and pop-up! Granted I looked a little like a kooky spazz, but I did catch wave after wave, pop-up fine, and was able to surf that board. Using my limited knowledge of board design, that shouldn't have worked at all. I should have been able to ride either of my grovel boards with relative ease, and be shutout (almost) on the HPSB

Can anyone shed some light on why this worked? Also, what can I do to get those grovel boards working? They are longer than my height and way more volume than the HPSB. It just seems to be bass-ackwards to me and I'm confused.

As soon as I learn how to drop images in posts I'll post pics of the boards....

[dtc]

When you say you couldnt catch waves on the grovellors, are you completely missing the wave, or catching the wave but not able to stand up?

[waikikikichan]

I think you seem to be better with wide point back rather than wide point forward. So you'd do good on a more McCoy Nugget shaper versus on a Donald Takayama HPD Scorpion.

Looking at your dimensions, you should try get a Big Fish with Twin fins. Or something Allen Sarlo ( Dog Town Z-boys ) rides.

[nativeFLSurfer43]

Thank you for the replies fellas! Appreciate the help on this mystery. Do you guys think it might be due to having a shorter arm length? For a minute this crossed my mind that maybe the width is on the wider side for my wing span.

@dtc - In most cases not catching the wave at all on the grovel boards. When I do get lucky, I'm so late on the take off the wave races on without me and I'm in the whitewater. These are in thigh to waist conditions here on the FL east coast. Seems like I'm scratching pretty hard to get in too, but the boards shut me down. I'm definitely doing something wrong just can't figure out what it is. Probability is high it's the Indian and not the arrow. When I surf further north in Flagler the wave is punchier and that helps, but, paddling out through the strong currents that are there often, is a real drag on the small grovel boards.

@waikikikichan - Thank you for sharing that video. Gave me some inspiration. I think you might be on to something regarding wide point back. My performance long board has a hip in it with the wider part slightly back (slight hints of a 60's pig without going all the way there). I also have a buddy's 9'4" Gerry Lopez performance nose rider hanging around too. It is a straighter outline from what I can tell. I like it, but I really jive with the 9'2" with the subtle hip in the outline. It's super easy to turn with a 9" squirrel fin placed mid-box. My only beef is sometimes it isn't as drive-y as I'd like. A big twin fish sounds like a ton-o-fun! Definitely been eyeing boards like that.

I'm familiar with the Scorpion, but not the other shaper mentioned. Going to check them out. At one point I considered getting a scorpion or something similar. Surfstation in St. Augustine has some good shapers make their house boards and they have one similar called a Tarantula. Also looked at the ECS Drifters too.

But...if I can't get that Bean Bag moving along, it might be a waste to go wide-point forward. It's so weird though because from all I've seen and heard, boards like the Bean Bag are supposed to be so forgiving. One of my buddies rode it one day and was beaming about how easy it was to surf.

Sorry for the long wind guys. That coffee is kicking in pretty hard lol.

[oldmansurfer]

Are those low rocker boards? If so maybe it's board positioning that is getting you. Low rocker boards require more precise positioning as a little too back and you are pushing water and a little too forward and you are driving the nose under water pearling. You may just need to be an inch more forward or maybe arch your back less when you paddle

[nativeFLSurfer43]

Hi oldmansurfer. Thank you for the reply my friend! They are low rocker boards for sure.

I took the 5'11 Quiet Flight and a 6'4" sponge board I have out yesterday in Cocoa. The sponge board is a Softech Bomber. Strangely it is actually a blast to ride. Performs way better than you'd think given that it's a cork. I noticed that on the Quiet Flight it just didn't feel like I had much paddle power (similar on the Bean Bag I have too) not only getting into waves but also moving around in the currents in the lineup.

The Bomber on the other hand would get on plane and could feel the board lift and stabilize on the takeoff like the elf shoe 6'6" HPSB I have. As long as I timed it right and was at the peak, I was off to the races...sometimes popping up a little too far forward, but I think that is because I'm so used to longboards being forgiving there and I need to adapt my popup.

I will try moving a hair more forward and adjust my back arch and see how that pans out. I feel like if I can get into waves and take off on the 6'6 elf shoe, and I can also get up and cruise on the 6'4" Bomber, then it shouldn't be too much more to get the 5'11 and 5'10 boards running. Of course, I could be way wrong there too. Just me trying my best to work out a logical answer.

[oldmansurfer]

To illustrate the difference between rocker and no rocker just imagine a flat board sitting on the water. If you push it forward it will push a small amount of water from the leading edge of the board if you taper that leading edge you have a nose rocker and less push but if you push the end of the board down into the water and then push, the amount of water you push forward is equal to the amount you push the tail of the board below the surface the more angle to the flat water the greater the amount you need to push to propel the board. Then the opposite of that is a half ball, flat on top and completely round on the bottom. If you push the tail down the amount of water you push doesn't change at all because there is no difference in the profile of the board which is the amount of water in front of the part of the board that is below the front edge of the board in the water. it is the same amount of water in front of the board. So a board with a continuous rocker has a more forgiving place to paddle from and a low rocker board does not. The nose rocker pushes water when you paddle but if the bottom of the board is parallel to the flat water than that is the best angle to paddle at. Once you get up speed the nose rocker comes out of the water and no longer matters. Shorter boards are much less forgiving about where you need to be paddling. Just compare a no rocker longboard and a no rocker shortboard. If you are in the wrong place on a longboard once you paddle it will create lift and flatten the angle of the board to the flat water and it has glide so you will continue to experience little difficulty paddling even if you aren't exactly in the right place, it's just getting started will take a little more effort. The shortboard has no glide and will not maintain speed and because it's shorter won't generate the same lift as easily. So you need to be more exactly in the right place on the board (and on the wave)