Surfing Waves

Hello everyone!

First post so sorry if I am doing anything wrong or if this has already been answered over and over, but I am having a really hard time going down the line and can not find the answer to my problem anywhere.

Quick background:
- Surfing for a number of years but always with BIG gaps between sessions.
- Learned how to pop up and turn on big soft top rental's over the years.
- A few years ago I bought a Stewarts 7'6 funboard; has a bit of a gunner shape, similar to this one: https://www.stewartsurfboards.com/surfb ... oard-comp/.
Wanted a cross over board but in retrospect should have gone for a shape that makes it easier to catch waves, specifically smaller waves.
- Got to a point were I was catching green waves and popping up but not getting long rides.
- I know it's completely different, but lived near a river wave for half a year and got very comfortable with shortboards and turning. Again, I KNOW it's not the same, but lots of experience pumping around a bowl on a skateboard, snowboarding and practice with a carver surfskate so feel very comfortable with the sensation of turning rail to rail and pumping.
- Recently moved 15 minutes from the beach breaks in the south bay of LA; been able to go 2/3 times a week for the last few months.
- Bought a 5’9 lib x lost puddle jumper and really like it. Been riding it almost exclusively and now catching almost everything I go for.

My problem:
- I am now catching green waves before they break, angling my take off, looking in the direction I want to go and not always but more often not, going down the line, but ALWAYS losing momentum almost as soon as I get going.
I know shortboards are designed for pumping up and down the wave face, rail to rail to generate speed, but I just can’t seem to do it. If I go up the wave I either ride straight off the back or when I turn back down I haven’t gained any speed and the wave passes me by or the whitewash catches up.
I think if I am able to get comfortable with just going down the line and getting some speed I would be able to practice moving up and down the wave, but again it’s not happening.
I have tried going straight towards the beach and turning straight away but I usually get caught behind the whitewash doing this.
I have been using a go pro on the nose of the board to try and figure out what I have been doing wrong but can’t figure it out.

Possible problems and why I don’t think they are the issue:
You can’t just go down the line with a groveller/fish/shortboard: This is what I think is the main issue, however I have been going out on my 7’6 fun board also and having the same issue. As soon as I get up on the board I lose momentum going down the line.
Catching the wrong waves: Yes, sometimes I get a wave that isn’t as powerful as I thought, yes, sometimes they will be somewhat of a closeout and yes south bay LA more often than not has mushy waves, but I see people around me getting similar waves and ridding them for at least 10 seconds. Also I often see the wave just pass under me or to the side.
Too much weight on my back foot: Maybe, I know putting weight on the back is like using the breaks, but it’s a shortboard and it’s right on the tail pad.
Front foot not forward enough: Again maybe, but from what I can see it’s right where it’s meant to be.
Not having a good stance on my board: From what I can see, my knees are bent, my arms are either side of me and my weight is balanced.
Not paddling enough: I really don’t think this is the problem as I honestly feel like I am popping up too late sometimes to make sure I get those extra paddles in.
Catching the wave too late: Maybe, however if I try to catch the wave any earlier, it doesn’t happen.

So that’s my problem. I know practice, practice, practice but I am having the same issue every wave I catch and it’s really frustrating. Is it not possible to simply go down the line on anything other than a super longboard? Am I not able to go down the line on either of my boards? Should I get a 8 foot foamy so I can get the experience from that and go from there? Perhaps I need to be further forward on my board? My front foot is right where my chest was.

Thank you so much for reading my insanely long post. I have the gopro video's if anyone has the time to check them out ,but I’m hoping someone see’s something obvious I am missing.

Thank you again and any possible problems, solutions or insight would be greatly appreciated.

James

Perhaps you need to lean forward more getting more pressure on your front foot, perhaps you need to ride bigger waves. I don't know about the extra paddle thing, it's not something I do. Bigger waves are easier to generate speed on so to learn they are actually easier in my opinion. But I am sure others will weigh in here.

Practice on your 7'6 or 8ft foamie.

See: https://youtu.be/ZS6BbC7Hj4s?t=123 as an example how the surfer is able to generate speed even on a longer board.

Where on the face do you surf? Where do you bottom turn?

A really common mistake is to go all the way down the face and then bottom turn, by which time you have lost speed and are outside the power zone of the wave. Or to try to surf in the bottom third of the wave

The ‘power zone’ is the upper half/third of the wave. Try turning as soon as you pop up (esp on smaller waves) and stay high on the wave. Even when you pump or weave, don’t go into the bottom 1/3 of the face.

oldmansurfer wrote:Perhaps you need to lean forward more getting more pressure on your front foot

Thanks for your comment.

You're spot on with the bigger waves, they definitely give me the power to get more of a ride, but they are not as common as I'd like. I'll have to try putting more weight on the front of the board. Should I be able to ride a 5'9 groveler (37.65cl) down a small wave without pumping up and down?

ConcreteVitamin wrote:Practice on your 7'6 or 8ft foamie.

See: https://youtu.be/ZS6BbC7Hj4s?t=123 as an example how the surfer is able to generate speed even on a longer board.

I will do, and thanks for the video, I can see how much moving forward on the board and adding weight helps out a lot. Thank you

dtc wrote:Where on the face do you surf? Where do you bottom turn?

A really common mistake is to go all the way down the face and then bottom turn, by which time you have lost speed and are outside the power zone of the wave. Or to try to surf in the bottom third of the wave

The ‘power zone’ is the upper half/third of the wave. Try turning as soon as you pop up (esp on smaller waves) and stay high on the wave. Even when you pump or weave, don’t go into the bottom 1/3 of the face.

Thank you for your comment.

I think I am surfing on the middle of the wave; when I go too high I go straight off so I know I have done that but that doesn't happen often. Looking at more video's I'm thinking I may not be as high on the wave as I thought, but as I said when I go higher I come right off the wave. Could it be that I need to generate speed up and down the top third of the wave rather than try and drawing a line and stay on it?

I'm not very good at bottom turning, I try to angle my take off and turn straight away, but it is a small turn as apposed to catching the wave towards the beach and taking a sharp turn; I find when I do this I'm not able to get in front of the white wash which is exactly like you said. Perhaps I should practise a sharper turn when I pop up, but like I said this often results in coming off the wave.

ConcreteVitamin wrote:Practice on your 7'6 or 8ft foamie.

Agree. There's nothing like moving around a big board to get a handle on where your weight should be. You will also catch more waves and have more riding time to figure things out. We could be more helpful if you asked a friend to film your surfing from shore and posted the video.

wishiwasinthe60s wrote:I have the gopro video's if anyone has the time to check them out ,but I’m hoping someone see’s something obvious I am missing.

Yes, please upload your Gopro to Youtube so we can actually "SEE" what's going on, instead of trying to decipher your post. A picture is worth is worth more "insanely long" post.

Every single one of your problems you listed : ( in order )
1) losing momentum
2) going up and out the back of the wave
3) bottom turns ( "going straight towards the beach and turning straight away but I usually get caught behind the whitewash doing this"
4) wave selection ( "catching the wrong waves" )
5) where to position the board on the wave ( "the wave just pass under me or to the side" )
6) where to position the body on the board on the paddle and on the wave ( Too much weight on my back foot: Maybe, I know putting weight on the back is like using the breaks ( ????? )
7) stance, arm positioning and bodyline
paddling power
9) pop up timing

Every single problem you have stems from ONE thing ..................... YOU WENT DOWN TO A 5'9" TOO EARLY.

But too late now, you wanted a high performance board, so you better learn how to surf it and not just ride it.

Without seeing the video, I can't really give accurate advice, but you did say others are making the wave ( for 10 seconds ). You want answers to "losing speed going down the line." First, I would try to see if it's the board or you, that's the problem. My advice would be to do a RACE CAR.
Paddle into the wave, push up and off hard and throw you legs under your butt and sit down on the deck feet first. You can lean with your upper body and drag your back hand in the face of the wave if you want to. If you can make it to the shoulder in the seated position, then it's not the boards fault.

I have a 5'7 Puddle Jumper (not Lib X) and it goes just fine. BUT, I find it goes ALOT slower as a thruster especially in smaller surf, in case that's how you're riding it. Also, it can handle a really big set of fins (like Controller quads) which add some drive and speed. I'm not saying it's not your fault , but it sounds like you're catching waves just fine so this might help speed things up for you. FYI, the "expanded review" at the bottom of this page talks a little about testing different fin setups for your board specifically - https://www.realwatersports.com/collections/lost-lib-tech-puddle-jumper/fin-system_fcs

One last thing - where'd you put your tail pad? You said your back foot is on it, but if the tail pad is not directly over your fins, you won't be getting as much drive or pivot out of the board. Sometimes people put the pads too far up and it can negatively affect performance.

get some footage of your bottom turn. A bad bottom turn sends you in the flats where you lose speed.
Video below is yours truly ,making a very bad bottom turn on my 7'9" Minimal and ending up in the flats:


BTW this was from the Surfline cam, if you have high resolution cameras at your break and pay for membership you might be able to get some footage of your surfing that way.

Not about your surfing issues, just a little distraction , this was what Surfing looked like in the sixties at Dee Why Point , not short board options , no leashes and a t premium spots crowds.


This particular photo was by Ron Perrott.

If you couldn’t generate speed you became irrelevant and were removed!

wishiwasinthe60s wrote:

oldmansurfer wrote:Perhaps you need to lean forward more getting more pressure on your front foot

Thanks for your comment.

You're spot on with the bigger waves, they definitely give me the power to get more of a ride, but they are not as common as I'd like. I'll have to try putting more weight on the front of the board. Should I be able to ride a 5'9 groveler (37.65cl) down a small wave without pumping up and down?

It's much easier to ride bigger waves say of the head high range rather than knee high range. In the knee high range you must be a better surfer or have a bigger board to ride them well. However at head high it's easy to generate speed (usually). If you want to learn on that board look for bigger waves. However when you are pumping that board you should be having your weight mostly on the front foot. You temporarily switch some weight to the back foot to turn back up the wave then you should be pushing the front foot down.

BoMan wrote:

ConcreteVitamin wrote:Practice on your 7'6 or 8ft foamie.

Agree. There's nothing like moving around a big board to get a handle on where your weight should be. You will also catch more waves and have more riding time to figure things out. We could be more helpful if you asked a friend to film your surfing from shore and posted the video.

I will definitely start spend more time on my 7'6 when the waves are smaller to figure out my weight distribution. Thanks

Generating speed on a shorter board requires more quickness. You have to take off quickly popup quickly get down the face of the wave quickly get back up the face of the wave quickly. On a longer board it's more about direction and proper positioning on the wave. Positioning on the board and weight distribution is equally important in both. So if you want to learn on a shorter board find bigger waves because it's easier to do everything. As you get better then you can go smaller. Otherwise be prepared to struggle a lot because it will be a steep learning curve.

surferbee wrote:I have a 5'7 Puddle Jumper (not Lib X) and it goes just fine. BUT, I find it goes ALOT slower as a thruster especially in smaller surf, in case that's how you're riding it. Also, it can handle a really big set of fins (like Controller quads) which add some drive and speed. I'm not saying it's not your fault , but it sounds like you're catching waves just fine so this might help speed things up for you. FYI, the "expanded review" at the bottom of this page talks a little about testing different fin setups for your board specifically - https://www.realwatersports.com/collections/lost-lib-tech-puddle-jumper/fin-system_fcs

One last thing - where'd you put your tail pad? You said your back foot is on it, but if the tail pad is not directly over your fins, you won't be getting as much drive or pivot out of the board. Sometimes people put the pads too far up and it can negatively affect performance.

Thanks for this, that's such a useful review of the fin set up.

I am using a thruster set up so will have to give a quad set up a go. It sounds like I might be not turning correctly and am not as high on the wave as I think, but anything to help with speed would be great.

I'm sure this is a stupid question, but do you know if I would be able to get another left and right and swap them with my back fin, or would I need a whole set of four quad fins. these are my current fins: https://www.surffcs.com/collections/thr ... c-tri-fins

these are probably the quad set up a would get: https://www.surffcs.com/collections/qua ... 6843458621

My pad is definitely not in front of my fins, but I might be putting too much weight on my back foot.

pmcaero wrote:get some footage of your bottom turn. A bad bottom turn sends you in the flats where you lose speed.
Video below is yours truly ,making a very bad bottom turn on my 7'9" Minimal and ending up in the flats:


BTW this was from the Surfline cam, if you have high resolution cameras at your break and pay for membership you might be able to get some footage of your surfing that way.

I think this might be my problem; bad bottom turn and not getting as high on the wave as I thought. That's great advice about the surf cam, I'll have to do that to see how I'm doing. Thank you

oldmansurfer wrote:Generating speed on a shorter board requires more quickness. You have to take off quickly popup quickly get down the face of the wave quickly get back up the face of the wave quickly. On a longer board it's more about direction and proper positioning on the wave. Positioning on the board and weight distribution is equally important in both. So if you want to learn on a shorter board find bigger waves because it's easier to do everything. As you get better then you can go smaller. Otherwise be prepared to struggle a lot because it will be a steep learning curve.

I think I'm not turning quickly enough, I take off at an angle and turn but I think either not fast enough or not sharply enough to get where I need to be on a wave. I am finding my short board easier so I can duck dive, more easier and catch waves easier but I think I need to spend more time on my 7'6 to know where I need to be on a wave. Thank you

I am using a thruster set up so will have to give a quad set up a go. It sounds like I might be not turning correctly and am not as high on the wave as I think, but anything to help with speed would be great.

I'm sure this is a stupid question, but do you know if I would be able to get another left and right and swap them with my back fin, or would I need a whole set of four quad fins. these are my current fins: https://www.surffcs.com/collections/thr ... c-tri-fins

these are probably the quad set up a would get: https://www.surffcs.com/collections/qua ... 6843458621

Never mind; I found just the back fins: https://www.surffcs.com/collections/qua ... -rear-fins for a quad set up.

People mention going into the flats as a bad thing but if you are on a steep enough wave most likely you will have to go into the flats the trick is to quickly turn back up and use your weight to add power to the turn by crouching into the turn then use your weight to get up the wave by leaning toward where you want to go at the top during your bottom turn while extending your legs so you can unweight in that direction and quickly get back up to the top. Unweighting is going from a legs extended position to bringing your knees up to your chest and guiding the board up to the top of the wave almost like jumping up there (but your feet stay on the board) Also by crouching and then extending your legs in the turns this adds force into the turns and helps to preserve or generate speed.