Surfing Waves

If you are beginner and want to do some cross training you should get yourself a (cheaper) longboard skateboard.
Surf stakeboards like Carver and Surfskate mostly emulate shortboards. They would not help you surf a floaty beginner longboard or funboard. In fact they might promote bad habits - happened to me.
Surf skateboards won't promote habits such as leaning / moving back to turn the board, which is needed for bigger boards. So in that respect they are not better than a regular skateboard.

Surfing a longboard will seldom have you pump, another wasted feature of surf skateboards.

If you are just learning to surf and need some cross training, don't waste your money on surf skateboards!

I disagree 100%

I would say if you have trouble standing on a surfboard then it's going to be painful skateboarding. If you get hurt surfing you will get more hurt skateboarding. However if you want to learn to do airs then skateboarding might help but you need to be good enough at both for it to help

Big H wrote:I disagree 100%

I need a skateboard that simulates a longboard surfboard as accurately as possible, what do you recommend?

pmcaero wrote:

Big H wrote:I disagree 100%

I need a skateboard that simulates a longboard surfboard as accurately as possible, what do you recommend?

I don't skateboard because I can't handle the wipeouts. I took my Carver skateboard out along a paved trail and tried to ollie over a bump and didn't make it. Suffice it to say, I'm glad I had my helmet on because there would have been a lot more blood without it. I don't want to even mention the public spectacle it created. I also lost about a month recovering (no surfing) from the injury. Nope, I'm content with the memories of skateboarding in my youth. I personally think it's more productive to watch surfing videos in your downtime than it is to skateboard, but to each their own. I think skateboarding can help with your surfing, but there are lots of things you can do outside of surfing to help your surfing. Sometimes the best thing for your surfing is to actually get away from it. Go hiking, paddleboarding down a creek, or play your guitar instead. Today I went out and the waves were excellent, but my head just wasn't in the game. So it goes.

pmcaero wrote:

Big H wrote:I disagree 100%

I need a skateboard that simulates a longboard surfboard as accurately as possible, what do you recommend?

You said that you never tried a Carver....I have two. I recommend a Carver.

BTW, I pump on my longboards all the time....I find myself in positions that are familiar on both short and long that have been ingrained on carver boards....simulation is not exacting, but Carvers are pretty damn good....the two I have are something like 31.75" and 33.5" which allows me to hold the same stance as I do on my surfboard.....don't forget I'm 6'1" with size 15 feet, so a little shorter might be better for scaling down.

I also have a 39" sector 9 board with gullwing trucks that say 50* on them....no real idea what they are. I just know that, while being a fine board, doesn't hold a candle to surfing simulation that you get with the Carvers. I can't speak to any other boards; I haven't tried them. Heard others like smooth star are good and that the one that you had was not good. I'd try a "good" one before a sweeping condemnation.

pmcaero wrote:I have the Atom Surf-skate which is a lot cheaper but I think it's been discontinued.

A penny skateboard clone with loose trucks should allow for some turns more like surfing.

notice that they do it on longboards rather than "surf" skateboards....maybe the Carver style boards are too easy to turn and don't translate that well towards surfing?

I haven't ridden one yet so can't tell if it's a good snowboard simulator. I have a Razer Ripstik and I can tell for sure that does not ride like a snowboard at all. If I found a cheap longboard with wide trucks I might consider trying to build a board like the Freebord.

So to clarify, You don't own and have NEVER ridden a actual Carver skateboard. YES or NO ?

waikikikichan wrote:
So to clarify, You don't own and have NEVER ridden a actual Carver skateboard. YES or NO ?

I have actually tried a Carver demo board. I own an Atom Surf Skate - which is not as easy to pump as the Carver but fairly similar otherwise.

They both relate more to shortboards than to longer boards. Granted I am a shite shortboarder but I'm not trying in that direction anyway, what I need in a skateboard is replicating the need to stomp on the tail more to effect a turn. Because of wheeled device physics, that is impossible unless you have two sets of trucks in the back so you can lift the front truck of the ground without falling on your ass.

In a nutshell surf skateboards are too easy to turn.

pmcaero wrote: I own an Atom Surf Skate - which is not as easy to pump as the Carver but fairly similar otherwise.

I own a stock plastic G-5 fin - which is not as easy to pump as the Kelly Slater K2.1 fin but fairly similar.

I own a Hyundai elantra sedan - which is not as easy to drive fast as a Nissan Skyline GTR but fairly similar.

Just because the front truck on your Atom rotates, doesn't make it "ride" like a Carver. "Demoing" a Carver in the parking lot won't give enough time for how to work it properly. It took me a few go outs and many frustrating hours before it clicked and it really starting moving.

pmcaero wrote:
They both relate more to shortboards than to longer boards. Granted I am a shite shortboarder but I'm not trying in that direction anyway, what I need in a skateboard is replicating the need to stomp on the tail more to effect a turn. Because of wheeled device physics, that is impossible unless you have two sets of trucks in the back so you can lift the front truck of the ground without falling on your ass.

In a nutshell surf skateboards are too easy to turn.

Just because YOU, don't realize the benefits that others have gained from riding a Carver, did you really have to put out a "Public Service Announcement" to warn others? I mean, maybe if you found a piece of plastic in your hamburger or your board broke in half after the first wave.
1) I understand you are saying that it will be more wise "in your opinion" to just get a cheaper skateboard ( and have loose trucks ) than get a Carver, Smoothstar, surfskate, etc. Looking back at your post - that's you modus operandi - the particular way or method you approach things.
2) I understand you are saying Carvers don't teach you how to step back. Correct they don't. Carver teach you how the sweet spot feels and how to keep being there. SO when you do step back, you know how it feels.
3) I understand you feel Carvers don't teach you how to stall the tail and pick up the nose to turn your longboard. Correct they don't. But what you're describing to do is a "PIVOT" turn for classic logs ( long 50/50 railed single fins ). A pivot turn involve stepping way back, picking up the nose, pivoting, and placing back down. Your BIC doesn't need to turn that way. A classic pivot turn, now days, is more of an "advanced move", which you are not a advanced surfer. You following your MO, have bought many types of board like a Beater board to "help" you turn. Yet still haven't got the basic technique to do a full carving cutback. Agreed, stepping back will help even simple turns since we know from you videos you tend to try to turn from the middle of your board. Learn the basics first before learning how to do an advance pivot turn. And "Stomping" the tail is NOT the right thing to do anyways.
4) You said "In a nutshell surf skateboards are too easy to turn", which follows your modus operandi pattern of it's the arrows fault not the Indian. Just as you blame your BIC is too hard to turn.

waikikikichan wrote:A pivot turn involve stepping way back, picking up the nose, pivoting, and placing back down. Your BIC doesn't need to turn that way. A classic pivot turn, now days, is more of an "advanced move", which you are not a advanced surfer.

so if I bought a Carver skateboard- that brand in particular- you are telling me it would help me learn to turn my board better?
Stepping / leaning back is recommended for any turn not just your advanced pivot turns. If you can tell me how the Carver simulates that I will concede your point.

I might not be good at surfing but I am good at physics at least. I just don't see it happening. You can be heavy on the front foot and turn a Carver or any Surf Skateboard (maybe not the one with a single caster wheel in front), in a manner that will bog your rail on a surfboard. What's the use of that "sweet spot" if you can't get there in the first place?

pmcaero wrote:Surf stakeboards like Carver and Surfskate mostly emulate shortboards. They would not help you surf a floaty beginner longboard or funboard.
Surfing a longboard will seldom have you pump, another wasted feature of surf skateboards.
I need a skateboard that simulates a longboard surfboard as accurately as possible

Your theories and view of how to turn and surfboard, be it a Long(er) board or Short(er) are skewed. ( distorted in a way that is regarded as inaccurate or misleading )
You think turning a shortboard is different than a longboard. The form is the same. Timing and Pressure is changed, but the basic body dynamic stays the same. If you have the correct technique and form, a surfer can turn ANY board. You don't, that's why you tend to blame the equipment. To explain the theory of turning different length boards try this:
1) Take out a pencil and write your name on a piece of paper.
2) Next, take that pencil and break it in half. Write your name again.
3) Next take out two pencils and tape one end to the other. Write your name again.

If the the pencil is 5cm. long or 500cm. long, your basic grip and technique doesn't change to write your name. You are not going to hold the eraser tip just because the pencil gets shorter. Kids in Hawaii, can turns 11 foot boards, because they know where to position themselves.

My wife is a 100% longboarder. She doesn't ride anything shorter than 9 feet. Her technique to turn, vastly improved after I taught her to ride a Carver. Helped her bottom turn, fade, positioning and backside surfing. Which in turn built up her confidence TO step back and forth to the tail.


Notice the deck dips down and forward, leading the trucks. As the trucks/wheels follows the track of the deck and as the decks snakes back the other way, it draws the board forward. Done wrong or missed timed, you just flop side to side. Loose truck on a regular skateboard just flop to the side too.

pmcaero wrote: What's the use of that "sweet spot" if you can't get there in the first place?

And if you don't know what something is, how will you know that you have it, when it right in front of you ? When you are riding a skateboard, or holding a hammer or saw, or pedaling a bike, something might occurs that makes you say " oh, this feels good ". Then other times, " huh, somethings feels wrong - not right ". Thus if you don't know what it feels like to be in the sweet spot of the Carver, hammer, shoes, ...... then like what you said "what's the use". Since you're doing it wrong anyways.

pmcaero wrote:so if I bought a Carver skateboard- that brand in particular- you are telling me it would help me learn to turn my board better?

For most people, the answer is YES. But for you, the answer is NO or highly unlikely. Why ? ..........

pmcaero wrote:I might not be good at surfing but I am good at physics at least. I just don't see it happening.

1) You think too much. You views are based on numbers/theories not real world seat of the pants experiences.
2) You view is already biased. Like you said " I don't see it happening ". A lot of becoming a good surfer and making the wave is confidence. You don't believe even before hand, so getting a Carver won't mater, because you believe it won't work anyways.
3) Your "physics" background gets in the way. Surfing has a lot of opposites. To go forward, you first go back. To speed up, sometimes you need to slow down. To noseride further right, you need to fade further left.
4) There are the 90% of riders that a Carver, Smoothstar, etc. will help. The riders that will put in the time and effort to learn the proper skills. There are the 90% of surfers that learn the basics first then progressed on. You are not in those groups. You jump around from board to board, You asked before how to put more pressure on front foot to turn, NOW you want to back foot stomp. I've recommend /advised you over and over again to forget you theories and go back to the basics. But you never did. So thus getting a Carver won't matter to help you turn any better. ( other people Yes, you ........... NO ).

Don't waste your money or time ( like you recommended in your PSA ). You said it , so live up to your words. Stick with your loosen floppy trucks. Keep posting those videos of your cutbacks and carves. Proof is in the final product right ?

waikikikichan wrote:4) There are the 90% of riders that a Carver, Smoothstar, etc. will help. The riders that will put in the time and effort to learn the proper skills.

same people at beginner level will be helped progress just as much by a 20 dollar penny cruiser clone like the one I have.
I have seen people without a surfing background ride Carvers and whatever that "style" is called it has zero bearing on surfing.

waikikikichan wrote:Don't waste your money or time ( like you recommended in your PSA ). You said it , so live up to your words. Stick with your loosen floppy trucks. Keep posting those videos of your cutbacks and carves. Proof is in the final product right ?

The cross training video series I have see aimed squarely at beginners doesn't even use a Carver , rather, a "Carving" board. Note that the trucks rotate less than those of surf skateboards.

pmcaero wrote:same people at beginner level will be helped progress just as much by a 20 dollar penny cruiser clone like the one I have.
I have seen people without a surfing background ride Carvers and whatever that "style" is called it has zero bearing on surfing.

"zero bearing" on surfing ? Skateboarding is / was originally known as "sidewalk surfing".

Again, your typical MO. Again you sidestep the underling issue of your lack of the basic techniques. So I won't waste my time trying to help you ( again ) on your current hang up. Yeah, you're right, you SHOULD keep to your typical skateboard. Your surfing seems to be progressing at the rate you are comfortable with.

You posted a video with a Streetboardz ( which was originally CARVE boards, not to be confused with Carver boards ). I owned 2 versions, the air-inflated tires and the conical urethane tires ( I actually have those wheels on my globe "penny" board ). Those are great for holding lean angles thru a turn.

But isn't it funny, the Streetboardz cost as much ( $235 usd ) as a Carver board, which you warn are a waste of money ? They are not your $20 imitation penny boards that you so highly tout. And neither do I see it helping to step back and stomp on the tail, which you so desire.

waikikikichan wrote: But isn't it funny, the Streetboardz cost even MORE than the Carver board, which you warn are a waste of money ? ( and neither do I see it helping to stomp on the tail, which you so desire ? )

I don't think there are skateboards where you can stomp the tail without falling.
Maybe kick turns on penny boards but it's not a smooth turn like surfing.


But , just from watching videos, I think the Streetboardz boards are better suited to teach beginner surfers starting out on longboards.

Regardless. show me one video ad for a skateboard marketed for cross-training that cuts to a guy on a longboard surfboard.
In such ads all you ever see areshortboards for the water segments.

pmcaero wrote:Because of wheeled device physics, that is impossible unless you have two sets of trucks in the back so you can lift the front truck of the ground without falling on your ass.

There you go again with your physics and what is and what is not possible. You throw out the word "impossible" ( and "Zero" ). You've never seen a kid wheelie a bike ? Or even a wheel chair go down a curb ?

pmcaero wrote:I don't think there are skateboards where you can stomp the tail without falling.
Maybe kick turns on penny boards but it's not a smooth turn like surfing.

I really don't understand what you mean by stomping the tail on a skateboard on land to match surfing on water. But to explain wheeling , getting the nose up, and balancing...... it easy. It take SKILLS.

Let's see you "Physics" explain what Rodney Mullen can do on a skateboard. Watch him "stomp" the tail at 1:57.

SKILLS son. Skills. that's the answer.

I think that spending hundreds of hours skating the bowl of a swimming pool would help prepare a surfer to go up the face of a head high wave after a bottom turn for the first time. I think trimming along on a Carver or similar board would help a rider learn to shift their center of gravity and get used to the centrifugal force involved in board sports. Is it the best way to train outside of surfing? Who knows? I wouldn't buy a skateboard as a piece of training equipment for surfing. I would only buy and ride one if I got pleasure from riding it. When I was kid skateboarding, I probably spent most of my time thinking about and imagining I was surfing. My surfboard is terra firma for me on all kinds of wild water surfaces just as a skateboard is for the rider who is able to get their board to move along all kinds of insane surface-scapes.