Surfing Waves

Hey everyone, my name is Noah and I'm new to the forum. I'm from the Virginia Beach area, and have been surfing going on a year this spring. While everything about mu surfing needs a lot of work, something I noticed the last couple times I've gone out has bothered me. I can start to turn to the side slightly, but I can never get enough speed (at least thats what I think it is) so the wave ends up catching up and I have only ever gotten a 4 or so second ride. I'm not sure if it's my stance or what it is I'm doing wrong. I always get excited because I think I might be able to ride down the line for a while but just can't get it. I know this is barely going to help, as it is just pictures, but if yall could get any advice or tips or have experienced this before it would be greatly appreciated. He's a couple pictures of one wave today. You can see each step along the way in the pictures, and in the last one I just had no speed so stopped.

I know this wave isn't a very powerful steep wave, but the same thing has happened on bigger stronger ones also

Wave you're on looks like a closeout....not much joy to be had there, though you could make more out of it by turning back into the wave rather than frozen poo stancing out into the flats.....but that's all a part of learning.....try looking where you want to go and getting rid of the poo stance for starters.....

Wave you're on looks like a closeout....not much joy to be had there, though you could make more out of it by turning back into the wave rather than frozen poo stancing out into the flats.....but that's all a part of learning.....try looking where you want to go and getting rid of the poo stance for starters.....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rsq2Px8_JQ

It looks to me like you are on a double wave, two waves that are combining into one. In the third picture it seems they are combining and combined after that making for a more normal wave. In the top picture the nose of your board is way up meaning either you are turning which will hopefully generate some speed or you are stalling the board which will slow it down. Probably if you had a longer board you would have a longer ride but you do need to work on your stance. You have both arms on the same side of the board and basically you should be squared up with your chest facing froward which brings your right arm to the right side of the board instead of butt on one side and arms on the other side to balance as you are. When double waves join up the resultant wave often gets steep and starts to break. In the top picture it looks like the wave in the back in breaking along the top and the wave in the front is a shelf right in front of you. If you had enough skill you might be able to turn off the breaking part of the top wave and get back down onto the unbroken front wave which would put you in position to turn back up the combined wave when it got steep and ready to break which would generate more speed. I think fix your stance and try to keep the nose of your board lower by keeping more pressure on your front foot and you might be able to ride it then.

Apart from the stance (that first shot is a classic, I'm sorry to say!), you have a lot of weight on your tail. You can see the nose of the board is a bit out of the water. As old man says, putting weight on the tail stalls the board, slowing it down.

What you need to get your mind to accept is that you have to lean into the slope ie lean down hill (weight on front foot) and drive down the hill. Its just like if you are on a bike or skis - you dont lean back up the hill, you lean down with the hill. Now your mind wants you to stay level - staying level is 'normal'. So its one of those times when you need to over rule your mind and get it to accept that leaning down is correct.

This is only for the first part of the wave - catching and then down the initial slope. At some stage you will need to turn - on a small wave, that is pretty early, even 1/2 way down the face. You cant get enough speed to go down to the bottom and turn on a small wave. So on pics 3 and 4 you are already way too late, out into the flats (the bit in front of the curl of the wave) where there is no power at all. So at this stage, there is nothing you can do, you have lost speed and thats the end of the wave - you need to be up where the white water of the crest is (albeit that it is a bit of a close out so you may not get much). On bigger waves, you have enough speed to keep your momentum going through the bottom turn, even though the wave is no longer assisting. But on smaller waves you wont.

So you need to

- catch wave and lean down the slope
- turn really soon after catching the wave and stay in the mid face (top 1/3 to 1/2 of the wave) and trim along the face.

oh, and fix the stance... Fixing the stance will actually let you transfer your weight much better. Stand on your floor at home in your stance and in the stance in the photo in the thread linked below. Try to move your weight from back foot to front foot through your hips and without lifting shoulders. Which is easier? Watch the surf simply video as well, those guys are excellent

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=33343#p214446

Your poo stance actually isn't as bad as it appears. The trick is you have to look at each picture in sequence starting from the bottom of the post scrolling through each picture till you reach the uppermost picture (where you're ending your ride I suspect) next to the text of the post. Another thing is that you might be way too far forward on your board in prone position judging by where your feet are on your board after you've popped up. You're almost hanging five on your popup. You should probably scoot back on your board.

First understand, I am trying to honestly help you. You asked for a critic of your surfing photos. Sometimes the truth hurts and what i'm going to say will cut deep.
Your type of photos, I put in the "ALL" file. Not just bad hand or bad eyes or bad stance or bad positioning. But EVERYTHING. Top to Bottom Front to Back, I see many faults and bad habits.
So I will go down randomly:
1) Your front leading arm is cocked back and down across your chest. You can't open your chest and twist the torso into the wave, making you closed. Advice: point where you want to go
2) Stink Bug, Poo stance, "O" factor ( opposite of X-factor ) makes you stiff, limits your twist and you have to lean.
Advice: STAND UP !! Surf your height minus 1 inch.
3) Front foot at 9-10 o'clock. Could cause the Poo-stance or be the symptom of it. But again, it limits you twist. 9 o'clock makes for a overly strong Front side and a Weak back side ( *** but something is amiss, look to #8 **** ) Advice: point your toes more to 10-11 o'clock.
4) The first photo i thought you were on a Longboard. The last photo looks like you were on a Fish. Your positioning is all over the place. ( Maybe you meant to do that )
5) Side Eye. You'er looking from off line / outboard of the stringer. It causes the butt to go out to counter your head being past the rail. Advice: Stand Up !! Get your head over your butt.
6) Back hand is acting as a balance tool instead of for drive. It's either reaching for an invisible rail or countering your instability. Advice: On a backside turn, the back arm should come across the chest.
7) You're trying to hard. You are coiled up to tight. Advice: Relax
8 ) I noticed in photo #2 your front foot heel catching. But it seemed strange for you to catching a rail.

I figured it out after looking at photo #5. You are RAIL LOADING so super hard.

I'm not sure if it's by accident or someone told you to do that. Advice: you need to be more centered along the stringer.
There's more, but enough for now.

To me it looks as if you are on a very small board. Maybe stay on a longboard?

Thanks for all the advice everyone. The board is a 6'8 fun board that is very wide. It feels as stable to me as my longer board but since its shorter I figured it might help me transition to shorter boards.
I feel like I often fall off unless I take that wide stance, but then I feel pretty wobbly like that. Maybe thats just how I always pop up and I don't change my stance. Is there any good way to practice this out of the water?
Also, sorry for the ignorance, but what do you mean by rail loading?

I appreciate the patience. I've never really had any formal training, just some basic pointers when I was first starting and I've tried teaching myself. It's been slow and I feel like I haven't gotten much better.

I think the wide stance is ok but you need to do it right. On land go into your wide stance with your butt backward and your arms in front of you then try to get your hips under your head by dropping your back knee toward the ground and rotating your hips more forward and your chest so it's almost facing forward. I do an exercise where I go into a wide stance then drop one knee and rotate toward the opposite direction and then keeping my head at the same level I bring the back knee up and drop the other knee and rotate in the other direction. This has helped me to get more torque in my turns

njbeethoven wrote:The board is a 6'8 fun board that is very wide. It feels as stable to me as my longer board but since its shorter I figured it might help me transition to shorter boards.

I strongly recommend using your longer board. It will allow you to catch more waves and the extra stability will make it much easier to apply the good advice posted.

njbeethoven wrote:Also, sorry for the ignorance, but what do you mean by rail loading?

If you look very closely on photo #5, if you look at the deck, you can see the very faint line of the stringer running the down the middle of the board. Your front foot is way right of the center line. But your back foot is ALSO on the rail too. You might see pros do that at Pipe or Longboarders doing it to lock the tail in for noseriding, but you do not and should not be doing it.

njbeethoven wrote: I've tried teaching myself. It's been slow and I feel like I haven't gotten much better.

You've only been surfing a year. Usually the 1st thru 3rd years are just learning the basics and staying out of peoples way. So it's understandable your frustration. You should've been more patient and learn to turn you long(er) board before moving down. You think a shorter board will make your surf better, but that's like getting on a motorcycle that's way to powerful for you. You'll be more holding on than actual riding. Like you said your more trying to not fall off than surfing. What ever habits you created trying to ride a too small board too soon in the amount of time you created it , WILL BE the amount of time it'll take to repair those bad habits. So back to the 1-3 years I talked about, after the 3 year mark you should be progressing more rapidly.

Tom Brady has the similar Rail Loading, Closed posture and Locked front arm.

waikikikichan wrote:Tom Brady has the similar Rail Loading, Closed posture and Locked front arm.

That's a neat style and form!

To OP: I've been surfing for about 2.5 years now. As an older learner who can surf only once a week on average, progress has been slower than I'd like. But compared to that your progress seems about more or less the same as mine. Yeah, I often feel like my surfing haven't changed that much, but if I look back 6 months ago I was definitely less skilled then than I am now. Without lessons(by professionals or experienced friends) it can take a whole lot longer to learn, but just watching better surfers during the sessions you can learn some stuff. At this point I'm pretty sure I don't have the poo stance anymore since something clicked and I can loosen up for a better style if the waves aren't too intense(there's no photo so no proof, however. ) It took me almost a year to be able to catch and ride unbroken waves often enough. At this point, finally I've sorted out the take off and can manage a few top turns if the going is good. So hang in there!

All the excellent advice has been given so I'll try not to repeat, but I too think you should get back onto the longboard. I have a 6'8" that I started using about 6 months ago, and while it was a lot easier to turn it was slowing down my pop-up so I've gone back to a longer board for now. Also, get yourself a skateboard. I love my Carver with c7 trucks, but in order to gain the balance of standing on a moving board and ditch the poo stance any old skateboard would work. Just remember that the pavement hurts!

njbeethoven wrote:T
I feel like I often fall off unless I take that wide stance, but then I feel pretty wobbly like that. Maybe thats just how I always pop up and I don't change my stance.

You're going into the poo stance because you are not surfing the right board. Your board is too short for those weak, gutless waves. Since those waves have so little power, you're widening your stance to help keep you stable on your board. The idea behind riding a shortboard is to allow you more maneuverability. Unfortunately, maneuverability requires speed which requires wave power/steeper waves. If you're going to surf mush, then you need volume: either surf on a fish or a longboard. Taking a high performance shortboard out in gutless surf is, well, kooky. Surfing with an extra wide stance so you won't fall off the board is about as elegant as belly riding your board with the kids in the shorebreak. In fact, you'd probably have more fun riding a high performance shortboard like a body board when the waves are small and weak.

RinkyDink wrote:In fact, you'd probably have more fun riding a high performance shortboard like a body board when the waves are small and weak.

In weak surf a body boarder has the advantage over a prone high performance shortboard rider because a sponger has the advantage of being able to generate power and speed by kicking their fins during their ride.

I hope my posts aren't coming off as snarky or harsh. I'm just trying to explain why I think shortboards and weak waves don't mix well. I would recommend that you take that board out when you get a bigger, steeper swell roll through. You'll still have a tough time of it on a shortboard. If you're determined to start on a shortboard though, then try taking it out in more muscular surf.

I bet you'd do much better if you had a longer board. Wide + short = slow, just basic fluid mechanics even if you don't know anything about surfing

I appreciate all the helpful feedback. I didn't think of any of it as harsh or snarky. I knew I was obviously doing a lot of things wrong so thats why I asked, and all of the advice is pretty new stuff that is really helpful. I guess the general conclusion for starting is to just practice on a longboard for a while, and practice standing up straighter while pointing my chest and feet more forwards?
I'm excited to get back out. Sadly, due to being back at college, it will be a while till I get to practice all of this