Overthinking while surfing?

[jet528]

Hi folks! I’m 5 months into surfing, riding a 8”0 softboard and local spot is a beach break.

Recently, I start to be able to catch waves on my own (not every attempt tho), mainly 2-3 ft ones. However, after popping up and the drop, I always fall off the board (approx 2 seconds after the drop). The reason I figured was my eyes were looking down, so my body followed.
This was not the first time, but I find it incredibly hard to “command” my body what to do in that split second. There are so much to tell your body (eyes, hands, legs) while surfing and my brain can’t process it all that quick! Most of the time I can’t ride a perfect one to the beach.

My surf coach before kept saying I just need to “follow my feelings while surfing” but...it seems like you need to reach a certain level to surf without thinking much? I know it all comes down to practice but I just wanna share some thoughts

[oldmansurfer]

I learned to surf without lessons. I also completely skipped the part about riding whitewater so I am probably not the best to answer you here however here are my thoughts. You learn to surf through repetition however sometimes you are repeating the same mistake and then you need to think. Has your coach observed this wipeout 2 seconds after the drop? Are you angling along the wave or going straight to the beach? Possibly what you are doing is going straight to the beach and the going out into the flat water in front of the wave then the wave catches up to you and you fall down. If not then try to explain the situation a little better what happens to make you fall?

[jaffa1949]

Jet if you think about all the details of a Pop up it is already too late!
By way of Illustration and showing just the major things happening you can learn to let your body just do!

These shots are taken at 12 frames per second so each picture represents 1/12 of a second think then react in that time, oops too late.

So what is happening here
A Eye line already looking where I am heading to for a small bottom turn then hands for B

B Hands flat on the board pushing down left hand putting slightly more pressure ( see the spray and slight board angle ) moving the board towards the bottom turn point.

C My forward right foot coming through led by the knee projecting me forwards and up in the next instant.

Another wave but same principles!

A Eyeline again with a much larger angle and Intention for a broader bottom turn not an angled bottom turn.

B Already popped up into riding stance knees under chest to stand up forward on the board not lift up the body over the feet backwards which would stall the board and ensure a wipeout.

C The actual line I will take before laying over into the bottom turn

D I still have a hand fingers placed on the board a slight tripod concession to my damaged knees , but still a one movement through and the forward weight gives me a little more acceleration into the wave.

Now the real objective here is that all these things and more are happening in a very short time frame so they need to become instinctive, having to think would be too slow.
You develop instinctive motor skills by repetitive skill drill training, keep doing, keep getting drilled by the wave.
Each time you succeed a bit your body muscle memory begins to build a template of what to do instinctively.
Takes time and intensive effort and is not as easy as the skilled surfers make it look. we have all done this Journey!

Also thanks to the Waikikikichan plan of learning lines on pictures idea

[waikikikichan]

I know it all comes down to practice but I just wanna share some thoughts.

"Practice doesn't make Perfect................. practice makes Permanent. If you practice wrong, you get better at wrong."

"Trying to stay on you board, MAKES you fall off."

What you do to prevent Pearling, causes you TO pearl."

it seems like you need to reach a certain level to surf without thinking much.

Paralysis by Analysis. You think so much about what you should do, that you end up not doing it.

advice: 5 months is not a very long time. Most people are at the beginner stage for 1-3 years. After the 3 year mark is when things start to really click ( and you go from being run over to running over )

[RinkyDink]

How tall are you, how much do you weigh, and what size board are you riding? It's possible that your board is too small.

[dtc]

Remember when you first started to drive? How going fast was stressful? How you had to think about everything you did? And how much do you think now when you are driving? How fast is still not fast enough?

Same for surfing.

[oldmansurfer]

The way I approach problems in learning to surf is I think about it while I am not surfing. So if the problem is you are looking down while surfing then I while at home where no one can see me I would practice not looking down. Just go through the motions of surfing as much as possible but do so without looking down. Lay down, pretend to paddle popup and pretend to surf by going through the motions without looking down. I call it mental imaging. I try to imagine I am surfing. This way you are practicing doing it right without having to wait for time, weather, waves to agree. Only problem with this is you have to know what you are doing wrong or you will practice doing it wrong. It takes a while of practicing doing it right if you have been doing it wrong for a while

[jet528]

I learned to surf without lessons. I also completely skipped the part about riding whitewater so I am probably not the best to answer you here however here are my thoughts. You learn to surf through repetition however sometimes you are repeating the same mistake and then you need to think. Has your coach observed this wipeout 2 seconds after the drop? Are you angling along the wave or going straight to the beach? Possibly what you are doing is going straight to the beach and the going out into the flat water in front of the wave then the wave catches up to you and you fall down. If not then try to explain the situation a little better what happens to make you fall?

Thanks for replying! I learned to surf in Siargao where they threw me on a longboard and went onto reef breaks and unbroken waves :S Not the most pleasant learning experience... And I think you are right, I recall myself going straight to the beach, because I was thinking where to go, left or right In fact I don't know which way to turn because I observed surfers nearby turning right on other waves, but I only saw broken waves on my right when I popped up.

[jet528]

I know it all comes down to practice but I just wanna share some thoughts.

"Practice doesn't make Perfect................. practice makes Permanent. If you practice wrong, you get better at wrong."

"Trying to stay on you board, MAKES you fall off."

What you do to prevent Pearling, causes you TO pearl."

it seems like you need to reach a certain level to surf without thinking much.

Paralysis by Analysis. You think so much about what you should do, that you end up not doing it.

advice: 5 months is not a very long time. Most people are at the beginner stage for 1-3 years. After the 3 year mark is when things start to really click ( and you go from being run over to running over )

Thanks Waikikikichan! It seems like surfing can be quite counter-intuitive and it's like some Eastern philosophy that the more you want something, the more you don't get it. I will think over it (or not thinking over it..)

I just read your blogpost on surfing pop-up and have a few questions. About forward triangle, is it we should avoid it by standing up straight? Same as the broken body line, so the upper and lower body should align?

[jet528]

How tall are you, how much do you weigh, and what size board are you riding? It's possible that your board is too small.

I am a girl, 160 cm, 118 lb, renting a 8"0 soft board everytime. Maybe next time I should try a 8"2 or 8"6 to see if it makes a difference?

[waikikikichan]

About forward triangle, is it we should avoid it by standing up straight? Same as the broken body line, so the upper and lower body should align?

Funny you brought that up, I will be doing a follow up blog post on the Reverse Triangle. Extreme stance either way front or back is too extreme. Keep your head between your feet. When the time comes to adjust to changing wave condition, you'll be able to.
As for the broken body line, just look at people who look like their body on a hinge. There's a difference between a Straight Line and In-Line versus Aligned. Is the body aligned with the board ? Is the body aligned with what the wave is calling for at a given moment in time ?
For both questions: try walking down the side walk, but stick your head out in front a few inches more than usual. strange huh ? Then pull your head back a few inches. Then cock it over your right shoulder. You'll soon realize the proper / natural feeling alignment comes naturally. ( it's us over thinking or forcing things that messes thing up )

[dtc]

when soldiers are taught to march, many end up swinging their arm forward at the same time as the foot on the same side is going forward (‘square gaiting’). Because, despite having known how to walk for most of their lives, they are thinking so hard about how to march properly that they get walking wrong

Like waikikichan was saying...

That said, the next stage of getting your stance right can get a bit technical - I need to remember to post a podcast about it

[jet528]

Jet if you think about all the details of a Pop up it is already too late!
By way of Illustration and showing just the major things happening you can learn to let your body just do!

Thankyou Uncle Jaffa! The photos are super useful to explain the roles of different body parts!!

[RinkyDink]

How tall are you, how much do you weigh, and what size board are you riding? It's possible that your board is too small.

I am a girl, 160 cm, 118 lb, renting a 8"0 soft board everytime. Maybe next time I should try a 8"2 or 8"6 to see if it makes a difference?

Hmm, I'm stumped. You probably just need more time practicing. Working on popups on land helps a lot. Good luck.

[kookextraordinaire]

"Follow your feelings"? What on earth does that mean? Your surf instructor may be following his feelings a little too much, all the way to the local purveyor of fine cannabis products. Or is the reincarnation of Bodi from Point Break.

I find it's best to practice one small thing each session. If you are looking down, then just think about keeping your head up, not the entire process of popping up. Once you've mastered this small step and it is ingrained, move on to the next step, whatever that may be.

[RinkyDink]

I don't know about overthinking it. I would avoid shackling yourself to procedures or one-size-fits-all steps for certain maneuvers. Instead, I think you need to focus on what it feels like when you do something right. Sitting here at my desk, I can easily recall the feeling of when I paddle for a wave and reach wave speed. There is a very specific feeling you'll experience when you know that the wave is taking you with it. (You'll get to know the sensation of not reaching wave speed as well ) I also know things like what it feels like when my feet land too close together on a popup. Sometimes I can adjust quickly enough to stabilize myself, but most of the time I already know when I get the feet-too-close-together feeling that I'm going down. My advice is to start analyzing when you do things right, and once you determine that you actually did something well, think back to how it felt and memorize that feeling. Try to reproduce the feelings of correct surfing on all your waves.

[oldmansurfer]

My mind makes really quick decisions based on what the wave is doing. It happens instantly without any pondering. On most of the waves I ride there isn't time to consider choices. Once in a while I might be cruising along and have some time to chose cutback or some top to bottom turn and that choice is usually made by what I am practicing at the moment. The waves I ride mostly are irregular and the swell is variable so I often just do whatever my mind decides in those spit second decisions my mind makes. Every once in a while I do something not entirely in the script of my surf surfing dialog and it ends up being something fun. I try to remember exactly what situation/wave shape I did it on and maybe will attempt it again in the future. I realize many of you may ride slow moving regular predictable waves and may have a second to think about it but your thought processes need to be fast or the wave will change and so will the options. I used to ride waves like that before and sometimes I had a maneuver or two ahead of where I was figured out already but even then you need to watch what the wave is doing. The wave leads you in this dance. So my concentration is mostly on the wave and not my surfing although temporarily I might think "that was fun" or I might think "I need to avoid hitting that surfer"

[dtc]

My mind makes really quick decisions based on what the wave is doing. It happens instantly without any pondering. On most of the waves I ride there isn't time to consider choices.

This is called 'experience'.

I was chatting to a guy last year who is a good friend and grew up surfing with Connor O'Leary (who debuted on the WSL this year). I asked him what made the difference between O'Leary and all the other guys and he said its not skill or technique, its being able to understand how to make 'the best' of a wave ('the best' being 'getting highest score from' in this situation). And part of that is experience, but at the elite level its something inherent

Anyway, for the rest of us 'aiming to be average' surfers, knowing what choice to make is often experience. We see something happening in front of us on the wave, or feel it in our feet or whatever. First stage is 'what is happening'. Progress to 'I could turn/stall/run hard'. progress to actually turning or stalling etc, having first thought about it. Progress is not even thinking that, just doing it

Like most skills I guess.

[oldmansurfer]

Obviously I am no where near as good as Connor O'leary but knowing waves and what they are going to do helps immensely in learning to surf.

[steveylang]

Anyway, for the rest of us 'aiming to be average' surfers, knowing what choice to make is often experience. We see something happening in front of us on the wave, or feel it in our feet or whatever. First stage is 'what is happening'. Progress to 'I could turn/stall/run hard'. progress to actually turning or stalling etc, having first thought about it. Progress is not even thinking that, just doing it.

I like this progression, I think for surfing it takes a long time to make it to each next step, in that how much green time are you actually experiencing in say a 1 hour session?

I am starting to feel pretty comfortable in the water, and have improved my paddling speed/endurance which is a nice feeling. But when I actually catch a nice peeling wave (I mostly surf inconsistent beach break), half my ride is me going, 'Woah, this is a nice wave! Yeah! And it's not breaking right in front of me!' I'll trim a little just to stay on the open face, but I'm not even at the point of envisioning what else I could be doing on the wave, much less doing it. I guess I get too stoked to think clearly.