Will I ever learn? 3 years in

Questions and answers for those needing help or advice when learning to surf, improving technique or just comparing notes.

Will I ever learn? 3 years in

Postby yoyoyoyo » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:28 am

Hey guys,

New at the forum, sorry if this is one of those posts again. I see guys going on holiday and saying they want to learn going from whitewash to carving the green waves and I am like...wtf :) I've been (trying to) surf for nearly 3 years (mostly once a week, occasionally twice a week) and I suck! With 2ft waves I can now popup quite okay and surf at an angle. But as soon as waves get bigger, or steeper or I am closer to the point where waves break, I chicken out. The few times that I am trying to go for it, I catch speed and soon start pearling. I have a 7ft high volume board which feels alright.

I have a hard time evaluating what I do wrong, so I don't seem to improve a lot. The main thing I know is that I chicken out for bigger waves.

Should I give up? :mrgreen: I still like it and try to go 3 times a week now, consistently for the next few months it's just demotivating sometimes hearing about people learning to surf in a few weeks on holiday.

I'm in Perth by the way, as far as I know the breaks are quite bad (fast, steep beach breaking waves)

In regards to questions;
- Am I overanalysing or should I pay more attention to what is going wrong?
- I know 7ft is not really long, but is it too short? It's like a REALLY thick board. I also have a 9ft6 longboard (mctavish fireball), but that one is seriously beat up and repaired a lot. It feels weird on that board - not sure it is because I didn't ride it long enough or the board is just screwed up or the waves were to steep that day.
- Any tips overcoming the fear of the waves? I'm struggling with that one for years.
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Re: Will I ever learn? 3 years in

Postby Tudeo » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:59 am

Did you allready try to angle your takeoff? That's the trick against pearling, and every time u accomplish this you build more confidence. Just start working on it in conditions you can handle to build up the confidence for bigger.
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Re: Will I ever learn? 3 years in

Postby Tudeo » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:01 am

Tudeo wrote:Did you allready try to angle your takeoff?

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Re: Will I ever learn? 3 years in

Postby waikikikichan » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:41 am

Usually the first 1 to 3 years is just learning the basics and trying to stay out of the way. The bigger gains happen at the 3 to 6 year mark. ( Then after that you just complain how crowded it is with kooks and how the waves were so much better before )

yoyoyoyo wrote:I am trying to go for it, I catch speed and soon start pearling. I have a 7ft high volume board which feels alright.

You say it "feels right". Right for what ? Pearling ? You said it yourself you can't evaluate yourself, so how are you evaluating that your board "feels alright" ?

yoyoyoyo wrote:I'm in Perth by the way, as far as I know the breaks are quite bad (fast, steep beach breaking waves)

I used to go MTB with friends, but I gave up because they went to runs that were TOO STEEP and TOO FAST and TOO TECHNICAL for my level. Same for you, the course, track, court, surf point is too hard for you. You need to learn at a more beginner friendly break.

yoyoyoyo wrote:Should I give up?

Yup, you should. You should stop surfing. Don't take your board to the beach. Sit down and watch the whole day. Observe how the waves break, how the surfer position them selves, how they get in and out, how they wipeout and not get hurt.
Going more ( 3 times a week versus 1 time ) will just make you better at wrong. Practice doesn't make Perfect, Practice makes Permanent. If you don't correct your faults and bad habits, you just be re-enforcing them. ( by the way however long it took you to create those habits is about the same time to fixed them ...... so it's been how many years ? )
How can you get better? Keep asking specific questions to this forum ( and post a video of yourself surfing )
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Re: Will I ever learn? 3 years in

Postby billie_morini » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:54 am

yoyo, you are probably doing better than you think. It truly can take 1.5 to 3 yr to get it together. Keep the stoke, Bra!
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Re: Will I ever learn? 3 years in

Postby yoyoyoyo » Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:32 am

Tudeo wrote:Did you allready try to angle your takeoff? That's the trick against pearling, and every time u accomplish this you build more confidence. Just start working on it in conditions you can handle to build up the confidence for bigger.


I actually read about it, heard about it, but not really tried it heh. I will give it a shot! I've seen more explanation from that guy months ago, really useful but I lost the video. Cheers for sharing.

waikikikichan wrote:Usually the first 1 to 3 years is just learning the basics and trying to stay out of the way. The bigger gains happen at the 3 to 6 year mark. ( Then after that you just complain how crowded it is with kooks and how the waves were so much better before )


Heh, I understand where you are coming from. I try to avoid places that are too crowded because I don't want to get in their way for THEM and for ME.
waikikikichan wrote:
yoyoyoyo wrote:I am trying to go for it, I catch speed and soon start pearling. I have a 7ft high volume board which feels alright.

You say it "feels right". Right for what ? Pearling ? You said it yourself you can't evaluate yourself, so how are you evaluating that your board "feels alright" ?


Good critical questions. I am in no place to judge what is truly "right". I am catching waves sometimes (or regularly when the waves are smaller) and that 7ft board felt as if I understood better how it responded paddling and right after the popup than the fireball did. Due to lack of experience I can't be truly be a good judge, but at every skills level you have to judge to the best of your ability right? No sense in judging conditions/boards/yourself only when you are Kelly Slater's level.


waikikikichan wrote:
yoyoyoyo wrote:I'm in Perth by the way, as far as I know the breaks are quite bad (fast, steep beach breaking waves)

I used to go MTB with friends, but I gave up because they went to runs that were TOO STEEP and TOO FAST and TOO TECHNICAL for my level. Same for you, the course, track, court, surf point is too hard for you. You need to learn at a more beginner friendly break.

Fair point. I have been pushing myself too much.

waikikikichan wrote:
yoyoyoyo wrote:Should I give up?

Yup, you should. You should stop surfing. Don't take your board to the beach. Sit down and watch the whole day. Observe how the waves break, how the surfer position them selves, how they get in and out, how they wipeout and not get hurt.
Going more ( 3 times a week versus 1 time ) will just make you better at wrong. Practice doesn't make Perfect, Practice makes Permanent. If you don't correct your faults and bad habits, you just be re-enforcing them. ( by the way however long it took you to create those habits is about the same time to fixed them ...... so it's been how many years ? )
I regularly sit in the surf, without catching waves, but just looking at how others doing it. Very insightful in their position when catching a wave, where they paddle towards, etc. Would you reckon it's more insightful from the beach?

Even after looking you have to start doing. How do you know you are doing it correctly yourself? Unless you take lessons... (which may be the answer)

How can you get better? Keep asking specific questions to this forum ( and post a video of yourself surfing )

Will do. Was a bit of a motivational issue as well this morning.

Is a gopro video useful if it is a front-surfboard mount? I don't have the luxury of someone standing on shore to make a video unfortunately.


billie_morini wrote:yoyo, you are probably doing better than you think. It truly can take 1.5 to 3 yr to get it together. Keep the stoke, Bra!


Cheers mate! Appreciated :mrgreen:
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Re: Will I ever learn? 3 years in

Postby jaffa1949 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:48 am

Time to change a few simple things for a start.
Watch the surf, (btw which Perth Beach?)
If people are riding successfully then everything that is stopping you is in you!
Do angled take offs, get a friend to video you. Forget the front mounted GoPro video , you will just look like you are having an epileptic fit in a shower.

Get a BIGGER BOARD, go out more often , take some surf lessons. Head south, to better WA surf areas, Cottesloe is not that great.

About the fireball, is it heavy? Then yes the board maybe waterlogged, but it sounds like you only used it once.
You are such a beginner your judgement on boards, what you need to do and your fears are unrealistic. So maybe the fireball would be helpful!
Get some lessons!
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Re: Will I ever learn? 3 years in

Postby Beginner77 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:12 am

Definitely don't give up if you enjoy it. Fun is what it's all about.

In terms of progression, you may find that lessons or a week's surf camp would help. It's easy to get stuck in a rut just doing the same things all the time - it's happened to me with windsurfing in the last couple of years. That said, I enjoy it so I'm happy.
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Re: Will I ever learn? 3 years in

Postby waikikikichan » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:39 am

yoyoyoyo wrote: Due to lack of experience I can't be truly be a good judge, but at every skills level you have to judge to the best of your ability right? No sense in judging conditions/boards/yourself only when you are Kelly Slater's level.

Huh ??

yoyoyoyo wrote:Even after looking you have to start doing. How do you know you are doing it correctly yourself? Unless you take lessons... (which may be the answer)

It not a matter of looking, but when you start to understand. You don't know what you're doing or if it's right, so you get someone who DOES KNOW, to help you. So you've been surfing for 3 years and never once took a lesson when you first started ? How did you learn ? Youtube videos ?
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Re: Will I ever learn? 3 years in

Postby oldmansurfer » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:12 pm

You know Waikikichan, I learned to surf without lessons or youtubes so I would have never thought anything about that. Glad to have you here with all your experience of working with beginners. I agree that he needs to get someone who knows how to surf involved. He mentions gopro and I am no good at evaluating those things but do you think you could help him from a board mounted gopro video?
So what is worse.... dying or regretting it for the rest of my life? Obviously I chose not regretting it.
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Re: Will I ever learn? 3 years in

Postby steveylang » Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:38 pm

Well, it's not that you can't surf but you are uncomfortable with bigger, steeper waves, so you have that base to work with.

Do you glance back when you paddle into a wave? That helps me a lot with pop-up timing, you can see as the wave is about to reach you and can pop-up with better anticipation, rather than wait to feel the wave, then set your hands and begin popping up (and sometimes pearling.)

Also, just try to keep in mind that your fear of pearling or wiping out on the bigger waves, may be exactly what is causing you to pearl or wipe out on those waves. I am guessing your timing is just a bit off, your movements just a little more hesitant, such that you end up pearling or getting crashed up when normally you'd already be up and going down the line on a smaller wave. So just see if on the bigger waves you can commit a little harder each time, even knowing there is a chance of eating it- I think that will increase your success rate and lessen your fear, and at one point it will become a virtuous cycle, right now it sounds like a negative cycle.

I am experiencing the same thing as I just transitioned to a hard board from a big-volume softie, and when I hold back I either miss waves or lose balance and fall. I think the faster speed and looser feel of the board initially made my body want to hold back a little. But when I started committing more, I've been doing much better. I mean you're not going to wipe out any softer by holding back anyways, right?

Where this aspect of surfing clicked for me was an experience I had skateboarding a few years ago. I'm not a experienced skateboarder at all, but went to a friend's who set up a quarter pipe, probably about 1 meter tall (but feels bigger when you're on it!) The advice I got was that you can make the drop, if you fully commit and put your front foot and weight down- it feels unnatural at first but you can then stick the landing. But if you sorta drop but sorta try to keep your weight back (which is your body's natural reaction) to make the drop 'softer', you're basically going to fall every time.

So when I got my new board (7' hybrid), I was able to put 2 and 2 together, and now feel like I'm well on my way with the board.
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Re: Will I ever learn? 3 years in

Postby waikikikichan » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:03 pm

oldmansurfer wrote:You know Waikikichan, I learned to surf without lessons or youtubes so I would have never thought anything about that.

Me too, I never took a surf lesson, but I bodyboarded for 15 years previous to getting on a surfboard. So I already had the wave knowledge instilled. Newbies don't need a paid-organized business type surf school as their lesson, although it can help on the very first go out since those schools have the right type of beginner boards. But newbies/beginners should at least go out with a friend who can actually teach the do's and don'ts and look out for them (not just know how to surf). Some Youtube learn how-to surf videos make me cringe.

oldmansurfer wrote: He mentions gopro and I am no good at evaluating those things but do you think you could help him from a board mounted gopro video?

I don't like those facing back footage, but better that than nothing. It can point out flaws like looking down, bracing with your hands, body-breaks, bad paddling-holding your breath, and so on.
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Re: Will I ever learn? 3 years in

Postby LostAtSea » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:59 pm

I'm a beginner myself - just about 3 years, same as you - surfing once, maybe twice a week. I still have a huge learning curve in front of me, but I have had enough "aha!" moments to keep me excited, however there are some long plateaus where I felt like I was regressing.

Maybe relating my breakthroughs will have some relevance.

I learned some bad habits early on that impeded my progress. Getting to my feet quickly and correctly was probably the hardest thing to learn, as I had to unlearn the chicken wing. Once I could quickly tuck both feet under me and have them land on the board at the same time, I could take off earlier, with fewer paddles, on more waves.

Also, reading waves is a life long learning curve, I've been, and will continue to be humbled by misread waves, but I'm getting slightly better at it the more I surf and watch others, where they sit and which ones they take off on.

Take what I say with a grain of salt, I'm no Jimmy Slade.
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Re: Will I ever learn? 3 years in

Postby yoyoyoyo » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:37 am

I have three short 15 second videos. Made at the end of last summer, before winter swell kicked in. Probably pretty much the best day I've had.

Before you watch, I am standing on the ground here, instead of sitting on the board. Still trying to sit on the board, I have torn something in my hip (labral tear) due to stretching a year and a half ago and I couldn't even walk for a minute without excruciating pain.I am still a bit afraid to sit on my board due to this, but I will get to it.







All feedback is appreciated. I noticed, not so much on the video I think, that I look at my board instead of further away and where I am going. I also have the feeling I popup quite slow. And the last few weeks I've been reading about that I have to hold my chest higher, have to keep my head from moving to the sides, paddle as if I am reaching over something (elbows high) and not standing up straight completely right after the popup.

The waves are also super small. I feel comfortable with it though and when there is a day like those in the video's I am catching so many. I can actually focus on what I am doing and that's probably the only time when I think "Hey I did <this>, maybe I should try <that>". That's because I know I catch the wave most of the time anyway so I can focus on the other things.


jaffa1949 wrote:Time to change a few simple things for a start.
Watch the surf, (btw which Perth Beach?)
If people are riding successfully then everything that is stopping you is in you!
Do angled take offs, get a friend to video you. Forget the front mounted GoPro video , you will just look like you are having an epileptic fit in a shower.

Get a BIGGER BOARD, go out more often , take some surf lessons. Head south, to better WA surf areas, Cottesloe is not that great.

About the fireball, is it heavy? Then yes the board maybe waterlogged, but it sounds like you only used it once.
You are such a beginner your judgement on boards, what you need to do and your fears are unrealistic. So maybe the fireball would be helpful!
Get some lessons!


I had a few lessons at Mullaloo beach and Clayton's (near Mindarie). I usually surf at Scarborough. I have a hard time catching the waves at cottesloe and it is crowded as... Whenever possible I go to wedge island. but that only happened 2 or 3 times as it is quite a drive.

Maybe I should take a few lessons again indeed...hmm is the scarborough learntosurf school any good?

Yeah the fireball is quite heavy. It has so many (big) repairs and it seems that maybe even part of the middle has a crack (but not completely snapped).

My fears come from, well when I started and hitting the ground quite hard in the passed. Especially on mullaloo waves break in quite shallow water.

Beginner77 wrote:Definitely don't give up if you enjoy it. Fun is what it's all about.

In terms of progression, you may find that lessons or a week's surf camp would help. It's easy to get stuck in a rut just doing the same things all the time - it's happened to me with windsurfing in the last couple of years. That said, I enjoy it so I'm happy.


Yeah it's true I still enjoy it a lot. But I know myself, I do want to progress. And sometimes it feels like taking 10 steps backwards before moving forwards again. It may have to do with trying to surf on a beach where waves become to big when the swell is bigger. I guess I have to stick to smaller waves :)

Surf camp may be good indeed. I'll consider it next to individual local lessons.

waikikikichan wrote:It not a matter of looking, but when you start to understand. You don't know what you're doing or if it's right, so you get someone who DOES KNOW, to help you. So you've been surfing for 3 years and never once took a lesson when you first started ? How did you learn ? Youtube videos ?


I've had about 7 or 8 lessons in the beginning :) But that was mainly the "push me so I can finally catch a wave"-phase.

steveylang wrote:Well, it's not that you can't surf but you are uncomfortable with bigger, steeper waves, so you have that base to work with.

Do you glance back when you paddle into a wave? That helps me a lot with pop-up timing, you can see as the wave is about to reach you and can pop-up with better anticipation, rather than wait to feel the wave, then set your hands and begin popping up (and sometimes pearling.)

Also, just try to keep in mind that your fear of pearling or wiping out on the bigger waves, may be exactly what is causing you to pearl or wipe out on those waves. I am guessing your timing is just a bit off, your movements just a little more hesitant, such that you end up pearling or getting crashed up when normally you'd already be up and going down the line on a smaller wave. So just see if on the bigger waves you can commit a little harder each time, even knowing there is a chance of eating it- I think that will increase your success rate and lessen your fear, and at one point it will become a virtuous cycle, right now it sounds like a negative cycle.

I am experiencing the same thing as I just transitioned to a hard board from a big-volume softie, and when I hold back I either miss waves or lose balance and fall. I think the faster speed and looser feel of the board initially made my body want to hold back a little. But when I started committing more, I've been doing much better. I mean you're not going to wipe out any softer by holding back anyways, right?

Where this aspect of surfing clicked for me was an experience I had skateboarding a few years ago. I'm not a experienced skateboarder at all, but went to a friend's who set up a quarter pipe, probably about 1 meter tall (but feels bigger when you're on it!) The advice I got was that you can make the drop, if you fully commit and put your front foot and weight down- it feels unnatural at first but you can then stick the landing. But if you sorta drop but sorta try to keep your weight back (which is your body's natural reaction) to make the drop 'softer', you're basically going to fall every time.

So when I got my new board (7' hybrid), I was able to put 2 and 2 together, and now feel like I'm well on my way with the board.


Oh yeah I can definitely see your point that holding myself back for the fear of "failing" actually makes me fail. I have to get through that mental roadblock. I am probably going for waves that are above my skill/comfi level.
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Re: Will I ever learn? 3 years in

Postby Big H » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:14 am

Could it be that your severe muscle injury has something to do with not progressing?


#1, you have to paddle and sit on your board. Jumping on reforms from a standing start is for rank beginners only. You will get nowhere doing that.

#2, if you surf “waves” like those, you need a longboard. You will struggle to do much more than pictured on those kneeslappers on anything else until you get better skills.

Surfing is paddle intensive.....if you don’t develop your paddling muscles and those that hold your posture while paddling it is hard to surf anything other that standing start reforms. To get better like you want to do, you need bigger waves, even with a bigger board. Your pop up needs work but it isn’t terrible.....it is good enough to get on waves in bigger surf, so for me that isn’t the area of concern. I’d focus on finding bigger and better quality to surf in, and developing the requisite physical skills and break/ocean skills to paddle and catch waves that break out back.
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Re: Will I ever learn? 3 years in

Postby pmcaero » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:18 pm

stick to it. I am like you, surfing once or twice a week, and my surfing started improving a lot after three years.
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Re: Will I ever learn? 3 years in

Postby pmcaero » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:27 pm

yoyoyoyo wrote: But as soon as waves get bigger, or steeper or I am closer to the point where waves break, I chicken out.


As a fellow wimp, here are a few tricks for a bigger day:

-Take the smaller waves in a set, nobody will go for those anyway. Or, stay farther on the shoulder and, if nobody has taken the wave, go for it.
(I surf at a beach break where peaks can shift all the time and the biggest wave in a set is usually a close-out.)

-You should probably get a bigger board so you can catch waves earlier when they are not as steep. 7' is not great.

-The paddle out on a bigger day saps a lot of energy and leaves you feeling powerless and fearful of the ocean. It's good to wait for a lull between sets and then paddle like mad to get out of the impact zone... rather than get pounded repeatedly while trying to get out. Getting out with your energy and courage intact will help you tackle bigger waves!
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Re: Will I ever learn? 3 years in

Postby saltydog » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:11 pm

All the great suggestions have been made already so I won't repeat them, except... get a longboard that you'd actually take out. On those summer waves you NEED a longboard to make the most of the waves. You can probably get by with somewhat narrower, more performance style log, and that might be a little easier on your injured hip than a classic log. Easier to make steeper drops on a board with a tad more rocker as well. I have a loose/weak hip joint and sometimes swinging a leg over a board or sitting on a board in a funny way tweaks something that causes pain. Such a pain in the rear... wait, the rear IS in pain :mrgreen:
"For the rest of your life, you can't look at a wave without thinking about riding it."
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Re: Will I ever learn? 3 years in

Postby yoyoyoyo » Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:21 pm

Thanka guy, what do you think of this board? Tli have never seen dimensions written down like that. The price is good compared to other 9ft boards. In case it matters, I am 6ft3. I also have the option for a 8ft softlite soft board.


http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/scarboro ... 1163257095
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Re: Will I ever learn? 3 years in

Postby waikikikichan » Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:43 am

That NSP 9'2" longboard is the same they use on Waikiki beach for rentals. They're very durable and have beginner friendly full rails and okay rocker. That model with the bolt-thru the deck MT-fins is over 6 years old ( and probably can last another 6 years easily ). I would try to find the NSP's with the new FCS side plugs for that price.

If you already ride a 7'0" and own a beat up 9'6", I would also look for the NSP 8'2" longboard or something similar.
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