Help with my turtle roll troubleshoot

[Laviz]

So for small whitewash I have a habit of just walking and pushing the board forward by pressing the tail and the middle section instead of paddling since I can reach the seabed.

The problem with this is I'll end up with a vertical wave breaking infront of me. There is also no time for me to run and go above the wave before it crashes. So I tried to do a turtle roll without padding no time for that. The wave rip the board out of the water with me flying along with it ....cant recall what happen after this but I survived ..

So what am I supposed to do in such situation? I can ditch when no one is around but I'll get drag back. I can hold the leash and try to sink the tail a little while diving under but it's straining my hand...

Question on turtle roll....
When doing turtle roll are my hand suppose to be straight or bend 45degree?
Where am I supposed to hold the board? I hold it on where I do my pop up.
I feel my face is being forced towards the board when I'm under. Either that or the tip of my head is threatening to hit the board.
Does it not work if I don't paddle?

Pls help many thanks!

[Big H]

Lift the tail and push the nose through the face of the wave while holding the tail and keep walking (angle the nose down just slightly)....or time it so that you don't have that wave there....or go around so that the wave isn' there.....or slide down the board and hold across the nose and duck through the wave......or paddle and slide forward and duck dip the wave....or slide forward and twist the board sideways a bit while pushing down to duck dive the wave....or quickly turn around and push the tail down blocking the breaking wave with your body.....or push hard down on the tail and push the board over the top of the breaking wave as it comes (stay in contact, don't let go)....

I hold the board to my forehead when I turtle roll....that way there is no space for it to get smacked into me....it's already there....as for the rest, go practice! Get out back and turtle roll in flat water until you "get it".....first of paddle hard like you're trying to get outside and a set is coming down on your head.....I put hands a little forward of where I do when popping up, grab rails and stack my weight up over my hands and push down then roll sideways if I need to get deep.....if the wave or whitewater is not too strong or big I just grab those spots and flip over and pull down while going under to angle the nose down (I'm big though so I can get away with cheating a little)....I then hold the board to my forehead with elbows underneath to help buffer....I make sure the nose is angled slightly down relative to the oncoming wave so as to slip the power of the wave and I either let my body drop down like an anchor or I stay tight to the board if I have a good angle/carrying speed and feel that I can shoot through underneath....as soon as it passes I slide my right hand down the rail to my waist never letting go of the rail then roll over with one hand high, one low and reposition while rolling....the split hands seem to help guide my body into place faster and make adjusting forward and back easier/faster and the hand at the waist helps to hold my body to the board in position when I finish righting myself (that split hands thing I figured out on my own....maybe it doesn't work for you but it gets me underway paddling again faster/more time to clear the next wave).

[Big H]

Oh yeah....if you're just walking out through the waves holding the board and in contact with the bottom...NEVER DITCH THE BOARD....even if that means taking a beating then getting washed backwards and ending up on your knees....there are a couple of vicious shore breaks at two breaks I go to that you're in thigh deep water when getting though sometimes....time it to beat that wave getting out but never ever throw the board in shallows like that....sooner or later you'll really hurt somebody.

[oldmansurfer]

What this sounds like is that you are not paying close enough attention to what the waves are doing. You are getting to the impact zone right when a wave is breaking in that area. What you need to do is watch closely at the waves that are coming in and where they are breaking then as you approach that area look for breaks in the waves and go rapidly through that area. This usually means paddling although maybe you still need to build up your paddling muscles so you can paddle quickly. If somehow you get caught and no one is around to get hit by your board ditching your board is fine but instead of just ditching it dive forward and down so that you are pulling the tail of the board under water. then you won't get pulled back. I often walk my board out and if I get in that situation usually I grab the nose of the board and dive under. I think the whole idea that ditching your board is bad is because it is in crowded lineups but if there is no one else around then it's fine and probably safer for everyone else than losing your board when you take a pounding if you do it as I said to do it.

[oldmansurfer]

To do a turtle roll you need to be on the board not walking it out. Paddle forward and get some speed then push the nose down and flip over. I bring my elbows over the top of the board so that creates some space between the board and my face. I usually only do this in emergency situations and I often lose my board when I do it but the board protects me from the impact of the wave. However you do it if you lose your board or ditch it someone may get hurt if they are behind you. That is a good reason to never be behind someone in the surf

[oldmansurfer]

I went out today and was caught inside with a strong current wanting to draw me deeper into the lineup. I could touch the bottom so I stood and walked sideways to get out of the strong sideways current and out of the lineup. If I wasn't able to walk I would have had to come in on the beach and walk sideways to a place out of the lineup and then walk my board out. Mostly I was able to hold my board above the breaking wave and lean into it to keep from getting swept backward.
Eventually there was a break in the waves then I quickly paddled out but I had to paddle sideways because the current was so strong. I don't ever see other surfers doing this technique of getting out through the surf. I learned to do it bodyboarding a very long time ago. But basically the whitewater hitting me was lower than my board if I held it straight up over the top of me but not much lower.

[waikikikichan]

Question: What the best way to avoid getting mugged in a dark alley late at night ?

Answer: Don't be in dark alleys late at night.

Sometimes the easiest way back out to the lineup is not the quickest or shortest route. Even if you can take a shortcut through the dark alley to your apartment, it might not be worth it or safe.
Sometimes you need to wait till a few waves go past, then paddle back. Other times you need to go down then around. Try not to fight Mother Nature. Use more Brain and less Brawn to get back out.

[Laviz]

Thanks guys. I'll continue to practice more on turtle roll with the tips and try to paddle out instead...I know I can get out of the impact zone if I just continue to paddle after getting pass a whitewash. But my fitness is not there yet. I know when I encounter such situation is because i wasted precious time catching my breathe instead of getting onto the board and paddling out ASAP. I am working on my paddling fitness and my overall fitness. And yea I'm at ground Zero as yesterday was my first actual surf of the monsoon.

I am still learning the wave and everything but I'm still unsure what to lookout for. Say how do I know where is the easiest way to get back out? Actually I don't really understand where the line up is. From what I can see all the surfer are just spreading around at different spots.Most of them even the pro ones just paddle straight ahead the wave but they can duck dive. While newbie like me just struggle to go straight ahead. I can't - dont know how to duck dive + I don't think it's possible to duck dive with my board either (I'm 50kg/110lb 5'2) and I am using a mid size board. I forgot to mention I'm still a beginner learning to catch the green wave.

[oldmansurfer]

Long ago when I was learning to go out in the lineup I learned I wasn't as good a paddler or duckdiver as many of the other surfers. What I figured out though is that instead of working my rear end off trying to get back out I could easily go all the ways into the beach and walk 25 yards down the beach to where a rock jetty created a sheltered area of water and paddle out there and if I started at the same time as the good paddler duckdiver and right on the beach next to him I would beat him out to the outside lineup.
On another note I surf boards that cannot be duckdived (very well). I do a thing called a duck dip where I shove the nose of the board down and dive my head down but get hit by the wave on the backside of the board and my backside too. At the same time that the wave hits me and the board I pull the nose of the board up. This has been working well for me as opposed to a turtle roll which is more hit or miss for me. After years of practice doing this I attempted a duck dive where I shoved the nose under then grabbed the backside of the board between my feet and pushed it down then pulled my body up to it. It sort of worked but I took a bit more of a hit than I usually do when I duck dip.

[oldmansurfer]

Also if I took a real leisurely stroll down the beach instead of a brisk walk we would get to the lineup at the same time but he would be tired and I would be fresh and ready to go on the first wave

[Laviz]

oldmansurfer" I do a thing called a duck dip where I shove the nose of the board down and dive my head down but get hit by the wave on the backside of the board and my backside too. At the same time that the wave hits me and the board I pull the nose of the board up.

Hei thanks for your comment oldmansurfer.
But how do u push the nose down and dive down with your head ( I assume you are on the board?) wouldn't the board shoot at at the back?

The most i can manage is to push a bit of the nose into the water but my whole body will still be at the surface. There is no where I can hide my head into

I will take more time to study the wave in my next session. Hopefully i can get out there this weekend (if i recover by then.... got a very nasty insect bite..so swollen it hurt upon contact...and it's right at my stomach where I have to lie on the board ) and update you guys.

[Big H]

You aggressively paddle hard at the oncoming whitewater or wave and then pull yourself up to the nose and dive under the oncoming water keeping the board fairly tight to you in your grip....can push down with a knee or even a foot like a duck dive but a lot of times it's enough just to weight the nose with your body, which in turn pushes the nose of the board down, and the breaking wave smacks you in the back or back of the legs while you're going under which in turn is helping you get under like OMS said....

Salt water is a healer....part of getting through the inside scrabble is just grit....(proverbially) set your jaw and work hard to bust through until you do....nothing an insect bite should stop....if anything, surfing with that annoyance will only add to the development of your intestinal fortitude which will do nothing but serve you well in all future arenas.....(READ: GRIT!!!).

Put it another way; if you're the type that a bug bite is going to keep you out of the water, then whitewater will keep you from getting out back and visa versa.....

[oldmansurfer]

oldmansurfer" I do a thing called a duck dip where I shove the nose of the board down and dive my head down but get hit by the wave on the backside of the board and my backside too. At the same time that the wave hits me and the board I pull the nose of the board up.

Hei thanks for your comment oldmansurfer.
But how do u push the nose down and dive down with your head ( I assume you are on the board?) wouldn't the board shoot at at the back?

The most i can manage is to push a bit of the nose into the water but my whole body will still be at the surface. There is no where I can hide my head into

I will take more time to study the wave in my next session. Hopefully i can get out there this weekend (if i recover by then.... got a very nasty insect bite..so swollen it hurt upon contact...and it's right at my stomach where I have to lie on the board ) and update you guys.

It will take some time to get used to it but you can practice it when no one is around to get hit by your board if you let it go. I basically try to turn my board so that the orientation of the board is closer to perpendicular to the water sort of like a hand stand or head stand in the water holding the board. So you have to grab near the nose of the board and shove it under water and try to get so that your whole weight is applied to the board so that it goes as deep as you can get it which would be so that your feet are above your head like a hand stand and the board is parallel to you. I think I actually wrap my legs around the board so it resembles a sitting position but perpendicular to the wave. Definitely I go to a sitting position when I start to pull the nose up so the board pivots off my hips as it comes up which shoves the tail down more and I come up laying on top of the board.

[Laviz]

Thanks Big H and oldmansurfer.

Ok I will try the method suggested and see which is better for me. I think the main point is to gain speed when going towards the wave.

No no not giving excuses... I love to surf or at least learning to. I am usually someone who doesn't like waking up early but for surfing I can wake up at 4-5am (to avoid the traffic at the custom). I have hit my knees on a rock in the previous session and it's not stopping me from going for my next! I feel I am getting better I want to continue with this momentum.

But this bite is brutal and on an entirely different level of pain...it is not your normal insect bite. It is a really swollen like 5-7cm wide and very painful even with the slightest touch...almost feels like having an abscess. But thank god the swell is coming down. Hopefully it will go flat by Saturday.

Can't wait to try out what I have learn here. Cheers

[Laviz]

Quick update...after trying out several methods. I find waiting for the right time and paddling out as fast as possible the easiest method to get out. My turtle roll is still...pushing me back too much.

Now that I manage to catch a few unbroken wave without "help" I am facing a whole new problem lol.

[Big H]

Quick update...after trying out several methods. I find waiting for the right time and paddling out as fast as possible the easiest method to get out. My turtle roll is still...pushing me back too much.

Now that I manage to catch a few unbroken wave without "help" I am facing a whole new problem lol.

Progress! Good times!

Being clever is always the best way out back.....as you go in bigger conditions and in breaks that are more difficult to navigate, the ability to read where the soft spots are to get out back and to time your paddle to maximise those soft spots will become even more important. Smaller days can mean dry hair paddle outs....

Soft spots being where the shoulders of the wave are, breaks in the waves, a channel, a quasi channel that breaks softer or later than the wave on either side and currents that can help you get out back. One break I go to sometimes is like a ski lift....where the shoulder peters out and your ride typically ends you need only paddle an additional 15-20m further away from the peak and you're in a channel current that takes you back out back and even arches around a bit so that you're dumped off 20m from the peak......that is a true lazy day wave!

[Laviz]

Yes now it clicks lol. I usually get stuck in the impact zone when I miss the wave (still paddling too slow...I think I am doing it wrong but I don't know whats wrong...) and have to get a few hits before I can go out again when set stops. Still a long way for me to recognize the different in wave. They all still look rather same to me hahahaa.

I have another question on catching wave not sure if I should start another thread or?

I manage to catch a few wave but miss a ton.
I notice if i lay further up the board it seems easier to catch the wave but I keep nose diving - I am not sure if at this stage if there is any way I can stop the nose from digging further?
If i sit further back then the wave just seems to pass me.

I know there can be many other factors like my paddling speed, catching the wave at the wrong time/position in the water etc?

I definitely still have problem with my paddling speed and wave timing (it's still a guess for me at this stage - when to catch or not). But how do I know if my position is right? Maybe I am pearling because I am not fast enough? maybe I am really laying too far further? But the nose when on calm water is slightly above the water

Is the sweet spot on the board same when I am learning on white water vs catching unbroken wave? I am thinking if I should go back to white water to better learn where my sweet spot is?

[Big H]

Yes now it clicks lol. I usually get stuck in the impact zone when I miss the wave (still paddling too slow...I think I am doing it wrong but I don't know whats wrong...) and have to get a few hits before I can go out again when set stops. Still a long way for me to recognize the different in wave. They all still look rather same to me hahahaa.

Spend time on the beach just watching the surf....you can learn a lot without getting wet; it's really a necessary part of surfing, watching how the conditions change relative to changing variables. Watch waves as they form in the distance and try to guess how they will break based on what you're currently watching....will it be like the day's type a, b, c or d? Learn to see and read the indicators that will let you know if the wave will be a good one or not from the beach then translate that into the water. Come to the beach at odd times when you don't plan to surf just to watch and learn. Pay attention to all details, time the sets and the intervals between sets on your watch....notice if there are a couple of good waves that roll through just about exactly halfway timed between sets - lookout for those in the water, they surprise a lot of people but are as regular as sets, timing wise.

I have another question on catching wave not sure if I should start another thread or?

New thread!

[oldmansurfer]

Take off at an angle, which is often difficult because you have to paddle better or when you popup turn the board by pushing down more on the inside rail or when you stand use your ankles to turn the board pushing the inside rail into the wave or any combination of these

[oldmansurfer]

Oh by the way I did a perfect turtle roll recently which is a rare occurrence for me usually I get pounded and lose my board.