paddle speed problem

[lelazza]

Hello everybody,
i am a newbie and have bought my first board after surfing on vacations on soft and longboards. During these vacations I managed to stand up many times and also I also (nearly) surfed some waves. So after some researching on the web i decided to go for a second hand "Stuart Pro- elite" minimal 7.2 - 20.3/4 - 2 5/8.
Now, what i noticed in the water is that other (more experienced) surfers paddle out at twice my speed or faster. They are more experienced so they probably have a better technique, but i am quite fit, i swim regularly, and have a good stamina, so I feel that the difference is too wide to be solely explained by technique. It just seems to me that I have some kind of weight that burdens me.
My concern is: could the board be the reason why I have troubles paddling out? Is there any check i can perform to understand if the board has problems? ps the board does not leak water in, I am 1.80 mt and weight 72 kg and this is the link of the surf shaper http://www.stuartsurf.com.au/boarddetails.php?id=12

Many thanks to everyone!
Emanuele

[Big H]

Sorry bud.....it is 100% your technique.

Work on your paddle technique and develop the muscles that accompany it....paddle fit is very unique and narrow; you get paddle fit by paddling and not much else. Look at some paddle youtube videos for pointers and watch the body position and form of those guys in the water who zoom past you seemingly without effort.

[drowningbitbybit]

could the board be the reason why....

The answer, as always, is no.

[oldmansurfer]

A bigger board will paddle faster. Your position on the board can affect how fast you paddle. The amount of rocker in the board can affect how it paddles. Your technique and strength also. Are you able to catch waves with this board?

[waikikikichan]

1) YOU are too far back on the board, so the board is PLOWING not planning.

2) YOU are dragging a toe, foot, or knee in the water,causing drag

3) YOUr energy is being used to stay on the board ( from wiggling side to side, back and forth ) instead of forward.

4) YOU are not aware of the ocean and waves. YOU are trying to paddling up the down escalator.

5) YOU are on a too small board. What was the size of the board before the 7'2" and how did you paddle then ?

6) YOU are paddling TOO FAST. Moving a lot of water a short distance is better than moving a small amount of water a far distance.

[lelazza]

A bigger board will paddle faster. Your position on the board can affect how fast you paddle. The amount of rocker in the board can affect how it paddles. Your technique and strength also. Are you able to catch waves with this board?

thanks for the answer, I used it 4 times so far and i find it extremely hard to get to the line up. I managed to catch some waves, but i feel i spend to much energy getting there so sessions are not fun actually. I went on vacation to portugal and indonesia, and managed to paddle decently with a 8.0 and 8.2

[lelazza]

1) YOU are too far back on the board, so the board is PLOWING not planning.

2) YOU are dragging a toe, foot, or knee in the water,causing drag

3) YOUr energy is being used to stay on the board ( from wiggling side to side, back and forth ) instead of forward.

4) YOU are not aware of the ocean and waves. YOU are trying to paddling up the down escalator.

5) YOU are on a too small board. What was the size of the board before the 7'2" and how did you paddle then ?

6) YOU are paddling TOO FAST. Moving a lot of water a short distance is better than moving a small amount of water a far distance.

thank you waikikikichan, some of the points you made may be contributing to my problem, especially point 4.
I surfed a 8.0 and 8.2 and felt very different compared to this 7.2, the boards were moving much faster in the water: despite being a complete beginner back then i had energy also o paddle for waves, unlike with the new one. any more suggestion is more than wellcome.
thx
emanuele

[oldmansurfer]

basically the board should be easier than swimming and if it isn't then you are likely positioned too far back on the board when you paddle and are pushing water. The nose of the board should be around 1 inch out of the water when you paddle. When you lay too far back the board is tilted backwards and it pushes water and slows you down

[Tudeo]

4) YOU are not aware of the ocean and waves. YOU are trying to paddling up the down escalator.

Can you maybe tell a bit more on this one waikikikichan?

[waikikikichan]

4) YOU are not aware of the ocean and waves. YOU are trying to paddling up the down escalator.

Can you maybe tell a bit more on this one waikikikichan?

Just the example of walking UP on a Down escalator, you are fighting the energy of the wave. Better to find and go with the energy/current going back out. Easy way to figure out if you're in a Down escalator area, is if you're in the white area of the broken wave. From above view you can see white triangles the wave makes as it breaks left and right ( well, not point breaks ). If you paddle back in those triangles, you're in turbulent water. That's another good reason NOT to ride straight, but surf and trim to shoulder of the wave and end outside the triangles. But what if you wipeout early on the wave ?, then only experience will tell you to paddle straight back, to the side, or even in towards the beach to go around. Also at reef breaks, like Waikiki, the triangles intersect, so sometimes you need to zig-zag back out. On a floaty bigger long(er) board you can just paddle totally around the break, while the short(er) boards have to fight and duck dive out thru the whitewater. Sometimes the fastest way out isn't in a straight line. But beginners seem to think that.

[Big H]

I know one of the breakthroughs that I made was learning to use my core to balance; being really connected to the board and feeling the pressure from just under the ribs to the tops of thighs..........after getting that sorted I found that I could paddle harder and with a faster turnover....previous to that I'd lose my poise/balance on the board if I pushed to hard or tried to turnover too quickly....with better hold with your core you can really get behind your paddle with both power and turnover speed.

[Tudeo]

Easy way to figure out if you're in a Down escalator area, is if you're in the white area of the broken wave. From above view you can see white triangles the wave makes as it breaks left and right ( well, not point breaks ). If you paddle back in those triangles, you're in turbulent water.

I was trying to escape the crowds by surfing deep inside (closer to the beach), in the middle of the white triangle, the other day. I'm using a 33l shortboard that I can duckdive deep enough, or so I thought.. Everybody was outside or on the shoulder, it was a 6ft day at Batu Bolong.

The smaller waves were beautiful in that inside area and it was completely uncrowded.. But off course the big sets came frequently with big white water walls pushing thru. I could duckdive them good and started paddling the moment I came up, but still the water movement behind the white wall, the Down escalator, was too big to make it thru. It was too exhausting..

There was this little buoy in front of me as a good reference point, no matter how hard and long I paddled the little buoy kept popping up in front of my nose..

Long story short: my crowd avoiding strategy didn't work..

[Tudeo]

I know one of the breakthroughs that I made was learning to use my core to balance; being really connected to the board and feeling the pressure from just under the ribs to the tops of thighs

I'm still working on that every time I'm out, especially when it's choppy it sometimes throws me off balance. Also working on finding the perfect spot on the new board, surfed it 8 times now. Trying to relax my knees on the tailpad with just enough weight to bring the nose in the right position.

I feel the lower volumed board connects, while paddling, better to the body then the 'corky' higher volumed boards. It helps me relax while paddling so I can do longer and less tiring sessions.

[Big H]

I know one of the breakthroughs that I made was learning to use my core to balance; being really connected to the board and feeling the pressure from just under the ribs to the tops of thighs

I'm still working on that every time I'm out, especially when it's choppy it sometimes throws me off balance. Also working on finding the perfect spot on the new board, surfed it 8 times now. Trying to relax my knees on the tailpad with just enough weight to bring the nose in the right position.

I feel the lower volumed board connects, while paddling, better to the body then the 'corky' higher volumed boards. It helps me relax while paddling so I can do longer and less tiring sessions.

One additional benefit of the core controlling the board like you say is the pitch (up and down) control over the nose of the board.....feet up and the nose is up, legs down and the nose drops helping you into the wave....finding that perfect balance seems to depend on the wave, water surface conditions like you said, whether you are getting in early or late on the wave and whatever else as you can't (and don't want to) mark the perfect spot with a ball of wax or sticker since that spot is in flux.....Wchan said that here ages ago; it's very good advice.

[Oldie]

What was 8.0 that you had before? Was that a foamie? The 7.2 you mention is fairly thin and narrow, so the drop in volume will be big. The increased nose rocker and the rounder outline will make paddling more difficult, too. So while you eventually should be able to get out on that board with the right teachnique and fitness, it certainly makes it more difficult.

[saltydog]

Foam boards are more buoyant than hard boards of similar dimension therefore easier to paddle. Surfing laws of physics say:
1) for the same surfer, longer boards paddle faster than shorter ones due to pure physics.
2) for the same surfboard, advanced surfers can paddle faster than beginners due to the reasons wkkkchan and others listed.

[BoMan]

Better to find and go with the energy/current going back out.

I like picture books.

[lelazza]

What was 8.0 that you had before? Was that a foamie? The 7.2 you mention is fairly thin and narrow, so the drop in volume will be big. The increased nose rocker and the rounder outline will make paddling more difficult, too. So while you eventually should be able to get out on that board with the right teachnique and fitness, it certainly makes it more difficult.

no, th e8ft was a hard board, and the 7.2 has quite a volume because it's quite wide and thick, in fact i do not feel like i am not floating , just dying to get to the lineup

[oldmansurfer]

an easy way to look at how much flotation a board has is to sit on it and see where the water comes to. Besides flotation length affects how well a board paddles. With the same volume or flotation a longer board will paddle better because the shorter one will be wider and push more water. If you look at a board from the nose to the back of the board you see the profile that sits in the water. The wider thicker and more rocker the board has the more water it will push in front of it when you paddle which makes it less efficient at paddling.

[OldFella]

You have probably bought a few boards since your initial post. So this may not be as relevant to you now as much as it will be to anyone who reads this thread in the future. THE BOARD IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT WHEN IT COMES TO PADDLING. As someone who bought a Pro Elite from Stuart about 6 years ago and bought 10 Stuart boards over the last 6 years, 5 of them the same FX2. I can tell you that a Pro Elite is a basic board without too much done to it to make it work. The Pro Elite's were Stu's idea of competing with cheap imports. I had a 7'6" pro elite that does not paddle as well as my 6'6" Stuart FX2. So anyone that says it is not the board does not really know what they are talking about. Some boards paddle like a dog, they drag and they suck as you paddle. Too much concave acts like a suction cap when paddling. Too much rocker slows the board, too much kick in the tail has the same impact. I was so dissatisfied with buying boards that were too soft and too expensive, so I make my own boards and all the experts at the beach who don't make boards kept telling me I need more kick in my tails. I tried that and went back to a flatter tail rocker. I catch far more than my fair share every session and it is because I have experimented with different boards and worked out by trial and error, that the board and how it is shaped, makes a huge difference to how fast you can paddle and how easily the wave picks you up and how fast you get across the face. Look up the COANDA effect in relation to surfboards. There is plenty advice in this thread that is correct about positioning on the board, positioning where the wave breaks. You still need to get paddle fit and by the time you are paddle fit you will have ironed out most of the problems discussed in this thread. But the BOARD is just as important as your paddling when you are competing against a crowd at Snapper, D'bah and Straddie.