two dif pop-up technique for shortboard

[lachyd333]

Howdy,

So, I have been surfing for a while on my shortboard and can get up relatively confidently on slower, rolling types of waves. However, I am not amazing with the pop-up (I get it about 8 out of every 10 times) and have difficulty on steeper waves. I usually use the method that most of you guys and girls use, i.e. swinging both your legs under you at the same time so that at one point both of your legs are airborne while your arms support your weight. However, I saw a dude in the surf using a different method that I thought looked really good. It's obviously not as fluid as the both the legs airborne style, but he had it so that he basically looked like both his legs were airborne except that the back foot wasn't. He was essentially "chicken winging his back leg" or "back foot propping" so that while about to get ready to pop up he really quickly brought his back leg into a chicken wing (right angle) so that his foot was just gently touching the board where his back foot should land if he did the typical pop up method. He would then pop up and swing his right leg through so that it was airborne but his back foot would already be in place in a way and he woudln't have to really have to swing it through (this chicken wing method is shown in this video

).

I'm not looking to be the most technically amazing surfer. I just want to maximise my ability to stand up. I guess, what I'm interested in knowing is whether any of you have experience with this method, if you think it is not as good as the normal style, if it is a bad habit, etc etc.

[jaffa1949]

The technique is fairly good but does expose the co-lateral ligaments of the knee to extra stress. If you have had knee problems or get some knee pain in using this technique go to a different style. Old codgers like me have to think protectively about how they use their joints, I know if I did that I'd blow my medial ligament again. Fortunately I was a good patient for myself and all is good and I ride a long board

[Tudeo]

My aim is always the 'jump' pop-up, but in reality I use every way that brings me in a standup position, be it by chicken wing or by knees and whatever body part that comes in handy at the time..

Sometimes the jump pop-up is more like an auto-pop-up, I do it (I should say it happens..) effortless without thinking. I think this is because timing, positioning, wave shape/size, my position on the board and board choice are all just right. In other times it can be a completely different story as mentioned before.

I'm still working on my understanding why sometimes it is so easy and other times it's so hard. Maybe if I understand this better I will learn to anticipate better and bring my easy-pop-up-rate up.

An easy pop-up is a quick pop-up, and that can be the difference in making or not making the wave. Some of the waves I surf in Bali jump-up so quickly that any hesitation in my pop-up results in wiping out.

[waikikikichan]

"Chicken Wing" in Golfing is not a good thing. Neither is it in Surfing. It causes a crawling up on your board, versus a pop.

Question: How are your feet landing with your current technique ? Shoulder with apart ? Toes pointed to the rail or nose ?

[lachyd333]

"Chicken Wing" in Golfing is not a good thing. Neither is it in Surfing. It causes a crawling up on your board, versus a pop.

Question: How are your feet landing with your current technique ? Shoulder with apart ? Toes pointed to the rail or nose ?

I've just had a look at my Gopro footage and I have been doing the normal technique for popping up but my back foot is not landing nice and properly (i.e. flat with the board). What happens is that I get both feet into the air and, although my front foot lands nicely, my back foot lands on the toes or the front ball part of my foot and then once my front foot lands a second after I plant my back footdown. I am usually landing with my feet at the right length apart. I can't see from the footage why my back foot is doing that. It might have something to do with the fact that something is hindering me from fully swinging the back one through. That's why I thought the chicken wing might be a good idea. Maybe instead of doing a full chicken wing it might help to just bend my knee slightly out to the side to prepare to swing my back foot under me?

Thanks for all your answers guys

[waikikikichan]

"Half Chicken Wing" ? How are you letting go of the deck ?

[lachyd333]

"Half Chicken Wing" ? How are you letting go of the deck ?

Not really sure what oyu mean? I don't grab the rails if that's what you mean?

[dtc]

Most likely your foot is landing like that because your foot is used to landing like that ie its a wrong muscle memory.

Before changing your whole technique, try concentrating on your foot and seeing if you can get it landing right. Practice on land for a while.

[lachyd333]

Again, thanks for the comments guys. I just realised that I have a short video on youtube of me doing a popup while surfing. It is old and I feel like my pop up is a bit more fluid than this but you will notice that my back foot is landing with the toes as I mentioned above. Any ideas on how I can fix this or what I am doing to make it do this based on this video? Thanks! I'm sorry for the terrible music but I was experimenting with the movie maker. The second link has a slow motion pop up of me which might give you a better idea of what I'm doing wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5REPU6jUAvQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECcxWWj8e60

[waikikikichan]

Notice that after you plant your feet , you just let go the deck. Really try to EXPLODE off the deck. Push up your body up and away. Almost like shoving someone, " get away from me ! ".

[lachyd333]

Notice that after you plant your feet , you just let go the deck. Really try to EXPLODE off the deck. Push up your body up and away. Almost like shoving someone, " get away from me ! ".

Thanks again for your reply. Could you elaborate on this a little in terms of what I should be doing. Do you mean that once my feet are planted but I'm still holding the board I should use my hands to push away from the board? What does this do as opposed to just letting it go? I feel like I let go of the deck to early (i.e. right after my feet have landed) and maybe sometiems I should contineu holding the deck for a second to ensure my feet are in the right place. I also feel like I might be trying to stand up to early after landing and that maybe I should stay crouched? I dunno.

[Big H]

These are my favourites; maybe one will speak to you....

***Best Single Tip that helped me - Keep your chin up.

My personal favourite....demonstrates the explosiveness needed to really get it done, clearly shows how to isolate the movement to the knees taking the feet and toes out of it and how the hips explode up to make room for the legs to go through.....and he's fassssstttt!!

[Big H]

Here is some more fun ones....I just saw the top 10 one for the first time tooling around getting those other vids but I liked it so sharing now......the other three are ones I've looked at several times....the second and fourth are somewhat related and relate to the next step of popping up so that you don't just go straight................good times!

[dtc]

You are doing exactly the same thing every time in both videos, which means that while you have 'taught' yourself to pop up, you have taught your muscles to do it the wrong way (practice wrong makes perfect wrong - I think waikikichan says that or something similar).

What I think is your problem is your hips. When you pop up, your hips are almost facing forward. So you pop up, your feet cant place themselves in the position they need to be because your body just cant contort far enough. Then your hips square up to the board (ie become parallel with the sides of the board) and your feet can move into the right position.

In the Currumbin video, look at 0.48/0.49 where you are half way through the pop up, and notice the direction your hips are facing - they are forward moving to about 45 degrees. Then at 0.50 your hips twist to be parallel to the rails and your feet then get into position. Its even more pronounced at 1.13.

Try on land - face a wall and stand with your hips parallel to the wall and then try and put your feet so they line up at right angles to the wall. Cant do it. Make your hips right angles to the wall and then your feet line up at right angle automatically

So I what you need to (my opinion!) do is twist your hips around during the pop up action - really concentrate on bringing your left hip forward. Despite what that 'top 10 pop up mistakes' video had as mistake no 10, do try with uneven hands. Put your left hand around your chest (same position as you have it now) but put your right hand several inches lower (toward your hips). This will make your right hand give a stronger push (because of the leverage) and will naturally twist your body around a bit to the right position. If you concentrate on your front foot coming through, rather than your back foot landing ASAP, that will also help with the twist.

It looks like your muscles have learnt to bring the back foot up first before you twist, then the rest of you has to adjust. Bring your front foot through, ignore the back foot.

But your eyes and head are in a good position, you are pushing yourself up to allow plenty of room to have your legs come through. So that is all good.

[drowningbitbybit]

With the chicken wing technique, which I sometimes use, you should still pop up and not along - the front foot shouldn't be going to an intermediate position on the board.
In fact, there shouldn't be an "intermediate position" at all. When I'm winging it, the knee is just slightly cocked as I paddle for the wave, and then I pivot around it, but this all still happens with a proper pop-up, not a pop-along.

For practise, try putting your foot in position with a slightly bent knee before you even start paddling. But your feet should still land more or less at the same time!!

Also, where you're surfing at the Alley is likely to be very fat and weak - the board isn't dropping away below you, which - counterintuitively - makes it harder to pop up. Go out to the point (actually, don't, that just sucks because of the zoo mentality), or at least somewhere with a touch more shape and try there

[lachyd333]

Just want to say a big thank you to all you guys for your advice. I really appreciate the detailed responses very much. Thanks !

[lachyd333]

You are doing exactly the same thing every time in both videos, which means that while you have 'taught' yourself to pop up, you have taught your muscles to do it the wrong way (practice wrong makes perfect wrong - I think waikikichan says that or something similar).

What I think is your problem is your hips. When you pop up, your hips are almost facing forward. So you pop up, your feet cant place themselves in the position they need to be because your body just cant contort far enough. Then your hips square up to the board (ie become parallel with the sides of the board) and your feet can move into the right position.

In the Currumbin video, look at 0.48/0.49 where you are half way through the pop up, and notice the direction your hips are facing - they are forward moving to about 45 degrees. Then at 0.50 your hips twist to be parallel to the rails and your feet then get into position. Its even more pronounced at 1.13.

Try on land - face a wall and stand with your hips parallel to the wall and then try and put your feet so they line up at right angles to the wall. Cant do it. Make your hips right angles to the wall and then your feet line up at right angle automatically

So I what you need to (my opinion!) do is twist your hips around during the pop up action - really concentrate on bringing your left hip forward. Despite what that 'top 10 pop up mistakes' video had as mistake no 10, do try with uneven hands. Put your left hand around your chest (same position as you have it now) but put your right hand several inches lower (toward your hips). This will make your right hand give a stronger push (because of the leverage) and will naturally twist your body around a bit to the right position. If you concentrate on your front foot coming through, rather than your back foot landing ASAP, that will also help with the twist.

It looks like your muscles have learnt to bring the back foot up first before you twist, then the rest of you has to adjust. Bring your front foot through, ignore the back foot.

But your eyes and head are in a good position, you are pushing yourself up to allow plenty of room to have your legs come through. So that is all good.

Thanks so much for taking the time to write all that! Really appreciate it:)

[Tudeo]

Only did Chicken Wings this morning, the waves were small (waist high) and didn't have much push. Sometimes it was hard to tell if I was in or not, often had to give it a few more strokes too make sure.

Under these conditions there was no jump pop-up, that just felt impossible in this small momentum. But the chicken wing method worked fine here. So I guess for me it is the conditions that determine how to pop-up, if the wave gives a strong push it is natural way to go with that push and do the jump pop-up. If there's not much push then I use the Chicken Wing pop-up.

[dtc]

Thanks so much for taking the time to write all that! Really appreciate it:)

No problems. I might be wrong by the way...I did a pop up at home with hips straight and pretty much replicated your pop up, so I think there is something in it. However, whether the hips are a cause of the problem, or a symptom of something else being done incorrectly, I'm not sure. As DBB said, you have an intermediate position and its possible that learned behaviour is causing (rather than caused by) things like having your hips to square on.

If you look at that Japanese video Big H posted (the second last one in his first post) around 1.40, you can see how the guy pops up and his hips are twisting as his feet are 'in the air' so that, when he lands, his hips are side on rather than straight on. He is 'leading' with his front foot which naturally twists everything else to follow (there are some other good examples around 6.30). Your feet land with the hips straight on and then you start turning side on and you seem to be leading with your back foot.

Anyway, hope it helps. Give it a go on land, maybe film yourself on the bedroom floor and see how it feels

[LostAtSea]

Hi guys,

I wanted to add my 2 cents to this...

I think the chicken wing is a bad habit, I'll elaborate...

I am a beginner who is transitioning to the outside. I am consistent on the pops but I have a chicken wing going and I want to break out of it. For me it's psychological - My brain wants to maintain as much contact with the board as possible. The biggest problem I am having with the chicken wing (it does get me up) is that it is creating drag at a crucial time when I need to be planing down the wave. My back leg is off the side of the board and pushing water for a brief (but crucial) second or two.

I have been learning in the whitewater, and the difficulty there is that there is no drop. It's more difficult to lift both feet and swing them beneath my body. When I get out back, I can feel way more separation between my body and the board, but I don't take advantage of it because I have "trained" myself in the foam - I still chicken wing, lose speed, and mess it up.

Not exactly sure how to correct this except keep at it and leave the whitewater behind.

That's my own assessment of the situation anyway. I might get a lesson this winter and see what an expert thinks.