use of rips to paddle out

[hcfkavh]

I had a very humbling crap session today, I've been out fairly consistently on 2-4 ft days and this morning it was about 5.5 (according to magicseaweed). I just couldnt seem to get out back. I know the general rule is if you can't paddle out then you shouldn't be out there, but I wanted the challenge. I tried to look for rip currents to help with paddling out but a lot of the bigger sets seem to be closing out creating relentless walls of white water. i know rip currents are the best way to get out. my question is, are there always rip currents to bring you out? was i not looking hard enough? anyways i felt it was such a waste of time getting battered for 40 mins and looking like a kook.

[BaNZ]

Rips doesn't always bring you out to where you want. I've been in some where it takes you into a whirlpool. Scary as hell. Or it takes you out but you're like 50-100 metres away from the breaking waves. So it took more effort to paddle back to the same spot. I think you should observe the others and see how they are getting out or if there is a rip taking them out.

I guess you will need to learn how to duckdive or turtle roll.

[oldmansurfer]

It might help you to sit on the beach for a while and watch the waves. Look at where they are breaking and if there are other surfers out watch what they are doing and the trouble they get into. Sometimes it is like a maze getting out through surf. The peaks tend to break in certain areas and you can paddle between and around them. I look for the shortest way through the heavier whitewater. Water comes into shore with the waves and it HAS to go back out somewhere. Typically it will go back out in several different places on a stretch of beach. The question is if there is rip in an area where it will help you? Most likely but figuring out how to take advantage of it may require some thought and experience. At 3 to 4 feet I can paddle out straight through surf without duck diving with my 8 foot board that is big enough so there is no way I can duck dive it. At 5.5 I would have trouble going straight out. It can however be tiring depending on the strength of the waves so I look for other ways to get out. Learning to duck dive a short board is important in getting out through surf. Being fit is also important. I have a bunch of different ways to go through waves. At about 4 or 5 feet I will turn turtle sometimes or just do a duck dip or half duck dive depending on if the lip is coming at me or just whitewater. Timing the paddle in areas where the waves are strong is important. If you have to go out there wait for a break in the waves.

[hcfkavh]

thanks i'll keep those things in mind. there was only 3 other people out, one had a mini-mal and he was having difficulty, the other two had shortboards. I usually paddle out at first light since I have school in the morning. I've been using a 6'6 hybrid board so its hard to duck dive fully, the tail still sticks up with causes me to get pushed back. never had any luck turtle rolling, had a couple bad experiences with it

[oldmansurfer]

I do a half duck dive with my 8 foot board which half of it still sticks up in the air but the other half is below the incoming whitewater and I tilt it back up once the whitewater hits the back part of the board and pushes it back down. The way I do it is to remain sitting on the board and shove the nose down as deep as I can get it, my head and shoulders are under the water too. When the wave hits my rear end I pull the nose of the board up and since I am sitting on the board it pivots at the point I am sitting on. I don't lose much ground if it's whitewater on that size of a wave. Turning turtle is what you may need to learn however mostly you should be going through much smaller whitewater which can be navigated without using either of those techniques.

[oldmansurfer]

If it is a sand beach the rip can be seen more easily because it will be full of sand. Otherwise look at surface ripples and look for where the ripples are moving at a different speed than the neighboring ripples. Currents go in circles water comes in goes to the side then back out then back around and back in. The currents can help you both getting out and coming in.

[dtc]

Somewhat counter intuitively, the easiest place to paddle out when there is no obvious rip is the place where the waves are breaking closest to the beach. Its often tempting to go into the part where you can walk or paddle out for a while without the wave breaking on your head immediately, but this means you are battling through white water for a while. Whereas if you go where the waves are breaking right on the shore (whcih is often where there is a channel - ie a rip), then you go through the wave immediately and then it should be clear water.

So sometimes you cant see the rip because of all the waves, but there will be a rip as old man says; it may well be hidden behind the wave breaking closest to the shore.

That said, if there are big waves its not just the waves that are the issue, there is a lot of 'unbroken' water moving around all over the place and working against you as well as the waves. It can be very hard, esp with a big board. Also if the waves are all closing out, you may get a solid line of whitewater, although if you see this then think about whether you can actually surf the waves anyway (ie if they are totally closing out in a line)

[hcfkavh]

have a couple updates regarding this thread I've been able to find the rips a lot easier now and paddling out has not been nearly as challenging. however today I tried to paddle out to an uncrowded peak but when I got there I kept getting pushed further and further away (I'm guessing that's why it's uncrowded). it got pretty frustrating after a while to stay in the right spot because the current kept interfering with my positioning. as a beginner, is it worth kicking and scratching my way to stay in the right spot or take the easy way out and paddle to a more crowded area and get less waves? what do more experienced surfers tend to do in that situation?

also since the conditions at my break have been windswell-y lot of the approaching waves seem more difficult to catch. I'm not sure why, for instance I paddle into one and as I'm making the drop midway it steepens and pushes my tail up and I pearl even when trying to catch the wave at a slight angle. in addition when paddling into a wave it feels a lot more "bumpy" and unstable (as oppose to paddling, glide, pop up). are there things you guys do to adjust to those conditions or is it something you learn overtime?

[oldmansurfer]

WOW! I could have written a quite similar set of experiences. The place I usually surf is quite similar to that in that when there are larger waves on a nearby reef break there is a strong current that goes to the left and out from the perspective of looking at the beach. My solution in the past has been to come in when I am starting to get tired well before it becomes impossible to come in. Now I have trained up my conditioning and I just constantly paddle in and to the right. I also don't paddle out exactly to the spot I want to wait for waves. I stop inside and wait for the current to take me into position. My advice is get into better shape then the paddling won't matter. Coincidentally the break I go to sometimes has back wash and the wave jacks up suddenly getting really steep while I am taking off and I go from what looks like a reasonable drop to free falling and pearling. That one I haven't got it entirely figured out but what I did the last time is if I was in that area to turn my board with my ankles at the top of the wave immediately after standing so that only the rail is in the water when it gets steeper and the nose is less likely to pearl. So far so good. The bumpy feel is not something I have noticed so I am not sure what you are describing but when the waves are bumpy then certain board designs work better like a V bottom and probably a narrower board or at least a narrower tail.

[hcfkavh]

when u say turning with your ankles do u mean u do a quick midface bottom turn so that your inside rail engages the face more?

[oldmansurfer]

Yeah it is difficult to explain but basically you take off nose down on a steep wave and bottom of board is facing the wave and top of board is facing the beach. This is not a turn and not an area where you can turn you are at the top of the wave and starting to fall down the wave but you push the inside rail down into the wave so that the top of the board faces the direction you want to turn when you reach the bottom and you orient your body to that. This way as soon as you can the board will start to turn. If you are completely airborne you may still pearl but if not then the odds are really good you will make it. I learned to do this surfing a longboard on steep waves. The problem I have is doing it in the area with backwash when it doesn't look like I need to, I just have to tell myself to do it anyway because there is no time to adjust unless you can see a backwash coming and I haven't been able to see that.

[oldmansurfer]

I have heard discussions of the pros and cons of doing this. The pros are if you don't go airborne you will likely make it and the cons are if you do go airborne you will fall because the board will slip sideways when it hits the water after the drop. If you are dropping straight down and go airborne then you may do an airdrop and recover. So another way to do this would be to lift the nose of your board up so you do an airdrop and just go with that. I have only done one airdrop on takeoff in my entire life and it was relatively recent and by accident.

[dtc]

trying to stay in one spot when you have a cross current at the take off point is just very annoying. If the wave is worth it - often point waves have a bit of current - then stay; if the wave isnt worth it then I dont.

Keep in mind that if you can only surf for 1/2 as long because of all the paddling, you may end up with just as many waves as somewhere more crowded when you can surf twice as long.

However, as Old man says, the other option is to paddle a bit to the side and hope that by the time the wave has taken you past the last take off point, you have caught a wave. So (for example), the ideal take off point is point X. You line up 20m inside of point X and just catch the wave whenever it comes, which might mean you are taking off 10m from the ideal spot, but hey - a wave is a wave.

Of course, if the current is running the other way, then you start at point X and drift until you are 20 or 40m (whatever is suitable) past point X.

[pmcaero]

easier than duck diving (but make sure nobody is behind you)...as the wave is about to break, grab the leash, dive in the water as deep as possible,and, underwater, hold on to the leash tight as the board is yanked towards the shore. Basically you become the anchor for the board. The reason this works is because under the white water, the wave is just a wave, with zero resulting forward motion.

[jaffa1949]

My opinion is jumping off and holding your leash is a dangerous practice


It's a technique of last resort,,good to see that it was said to look behind you before you do it!
So why is it dangerous?
Once you let go of your board you have no control over what happens next......... Don't use this technique!!!!!!
If you get lazy and fail to learn to duck dive you are depending on something, that can fail , the leg rope!

Depending on where you grab it it still creates an arc of impact where the board swings, if you you grab near the board, or on the rail guard you risk de gloving a finger ( stripping the skin off fingers to the bone),

[pmcaero]

eeek.
dunno what else to do....I failed time and again to duckdive. But I think just knowing that only a thin layer of water actually moves,which, dunno why I didn't see it this way till now, might help spur my efforts to try to perfect this technique.

And, indeed, the leash untied once on me as I was holding on to it and I had to chase my board to the shore.

[jaffa1949]

I can't recall the size and type of your board, there is a level where it is almost impossible to duck dive a board.
In that case the turtle or Eskimo roll is the other way to go!

I started surfing well before leashes the iron grip had to be evolved!

[dtc]

Just do a turtle roll. They arent particularly hard. Just roll the board over, grap both rails with your hands fairly close to the nose, then sink yourself (and the nose) as far under the water as you can (you are facing back toward the shore, stretch out your arms and make sure the nose doesnt hit you on the top of your head). Ignore the tail - if the nose is under the water, then the waves wont get under the board and all that happens is the waves push the tail down, if anything. Sure in quite big/powerful surf, this doesnt work, plus you need to get your positioning right (you can duck duck under a wave landing on your head, but you can't turtle underneath it), but it means you have control of the board. Its almost the same as your 'grab the leash' thing, but instead of holding the leash you are holding the rails. Put some wax on the rails at the right place (top and side and underneath), it really helps

Another option for small waves only, is to jump off next to the board, grab the nose with one hand and sink your entire body under the water dragging the nose with you. But you need a strong grip and small waves - most of the time you are better off just turtling. If you do this, wax the nose. This was my original technique (learnt before I knew what I should be doing) and I need to train myself out of it, but its easier to learn than a turtle roll, and I find it easier to face into the wave than away from it. But given that you are starting new with no bad habits, maybe only use it if you really cant figure out the turtling.

For small white water, you can just straighten your arms and raise your body above the white water and push the nose of the board slightly under the water.

If you have a big board, you may not be able to duck dive. If you sit on the board, does it sink under you? If it doesnt sink past your, say, belly button, then duck diving it very deep will be hard. Some people can do it, but its difficult and technical (my view is that you can learn to duck dive a small board and then modify that technique to duck dive a larger board, but its almost impossible to learn to duck dive with a big board, because you need the technique first in order to know how to do the 'technical' stuff needed for a bigger board ie the gap from not being able to duck dive to being able to duck dive is too great with a big board to be overcome*)

*: this is my excuse and I'm sticking to it!

(edit: see Jaffa has already said this!)

[oldmansurfer]

I have a variety of ways to go though waves. My board doesn't allow me to duck dive but I do a half duck dive also known here as the duck dip where it push the board down and dive under the water but my butt and the back half of my board protrudes from the wave. I now do this maneuver for most waves around head high but if I think I will get pounded then I will do a turtle roll. If it's bigger than double overhead I may jump off the board and swim for the bottom. On smaller waves I have a whole bunch of different things I do. There are so many ways to go through waves without losing (much) ground. I just saw a kid who paddled toward the oncoming wave then stood up and rode over the wave. This is how you go through a wave with an SUP board. Mostly the way to go out with a bigger board is to try to avoid the waves. Big wave surfers never go out through the surf or duck dive (an impossible task) they go around it and only surf in breaks where this is possible. So perhaps the if you can't get out you don't belong out there rule works, but learning some methods to go through waves should allow you to get out through 6 foot surf (and getting fit)

[pmcaero]

yeah I have a 7'9" MiniMal I have been using more as of late even in bigger surf because my other board (shorter) is not waterproof anymore and can't afford yet to buy a new board.
So, probably hard to duckdive.
But as I understand the explanations here, if I turtle roll and also dive with the nose down I will not lose so much ground?
I think I have been turtle rolling without considering the nose dive too.