Surfing Waves

Hey everyone, I'm back on the forum! I just want to thank everyone, especially jaffa for answering so thoroughly.

Well, I'm having a bit of trouble going down the line. I can paddle out now! And, I can catch a green wave, and I am really comfortable with the drop, even in steep waves. Also, I've been following people's advice on increasing the wave height every time. I now actually feel comfortable in 5 foot waves, which when I started thought were crazy. Sadly, I was riding a crappy cheap foam board, that busted and is waterlogged, and I'm looking at getting a fiberglass longboard, and get into some nosed riding, and then keep stepping down in size to eggs, and finally shortboards! But that's off topic.

I can turn really well on my old foam board, however, every time I'm on a wave, I turn once I reach the bottom, and I can't get higher in the wave, (which what I think you need to do to get speed, right?) Then, because of my lack of speed the whitewater breaks in front of me, and I'm screwed.

Also, another thing I've been pondering that could be related to this is my position when I catch the wave. I'm experimenting going farther out, and it worked for one wave! However, I am kinda scared of this tactic, because I am not yet a very strong paddler, (although I'm getting better) and so most waves where I have to paddle a ton I often paddle as hard as I can, miss, get pounded, and have to paddle back out!

Any help? Haha jaffa, please read this, you're amazing!

There are a few problems here and they are common to all beginner surfer as they change from white water surfing to "going down the line" on green waves.
First thing as a problem is you are taking off like you are catching the white water and going straight then trying to turn at the bottom of the wave, (works if you are skilled and can lay over a decent bottom turn) .For the beginner this usually results in a wobbly gutless sort of turn that give no drive out to the face and if the wave hasn't run away from you you cannot get enough speed to get to the clear face WIPEOUT!!.
Learn about angled take offs and then doing minor turns along the face, the point at the bottom of the face is the slowest point on the wave and unless you are speeding through to another position on the face everything that happens at the bottom is boggy and slow!
At your age none of this is a problem in the long term, just lots of surfing will gradually fix everything!

ngreene wrote:Any help? Haha jaffa, please read this, you're amazing!

ngreene's right Jaffa

I just had to like these

Haha, thanks jaffa! However, I lean back on my longboard and I have never wiped out turning, it's just that the wave catches up and I end up surfing whitewater. Also, I want to try angled take offs, but I often have a hard time paddling hard enough into waves anyways, and so wouldn't this make catching waves much harder? Thanks for the advice.

Greenywave ride to be, nothing happens in surfinh without effort, paddle harder, at an angle for take off you'll be able to do a turn on the face straight takeoffs are whitewater takeoffs if you can't turn out to the face there is no point at this stage taking off straight>
Tget out and work on angled take offs, if you are leaning back you are stalling ( slowing down ) the board, you are still very much in the beginning stages don't fret it too much time and lots of surfs will fix it>

If you are picturing doing bottom turns like Mark Richards (see pic), you are doing it the wrong way...



(as an aside, look up 'Mark Richards bottom turns' - the guy was the greatest ever. See his 'bottom turn off the wall' at pipeline, just a work of art - I think possibly my favourite ever surfing pic.)

Heck, here it is cos I love it so much (photo Dan Merkel)




Ok, after that interlude...

On a shortboard, you can do a rail turn, just lean against the rail and you do a nice 'U' turn. The board turns itself (you just weight it); for longboards you need to make much more of an effort (straight rails and all that). Doing the shortboard thing will probably dig in a rail or just slow you down a lot.

For LBs, you've got to be more careful with your weight, the same motion that gets a shorter board turning up the face will just cause the longboard to either do nothing (go straight) or just tip over. If you try to turn from too far towards the middle of the board (ie where you initially pop up), it may not work. The position of fastest trim speed on a longboard is not in the same place as the best place to turn it from.

In other words, with a long board you just can't lean and get a strong turn. At best you will get a long flowing turn if you have enough speed. If you dont, well you have found that out.

The answer is that you need to move your foot back and weight the back of the board and lift the nose out of the water (just a bit) and give your body a real twist and effort and physically turn the thing.

So think about your weighting and really try to turn, no namby pamby 'I'll just make a bit of an effort because I'm not sure of what I'm doing' - just commit.

That said, its much easier to angle the board. Just paddle into the wave with the board angled slightly in the direction that the wave is breaking. The amount of angle is simply a matter of experimentation and will vary on different waves. but 20 deg or so is a good generalisation. It doesnt make it harder to catch the wave. Alternatively, if you feel up to it, paddle straight but pop up and then immediately turn - look down the line, shoulders twisting, a bit of weight on the back foot. You dont have to turn 90 deg straight away, so 45 deg down the wave but in a continual turn and you will eventually start heading back up the wave.

Remember:

1. look straight, go straight. Look down the line, go down the line. After a while, this becomes muscle memory, you look down the line before you are even standing

2. lean into the wave (setting the rail). Leaning into the wave is counter intuitive - leaning into the slope seems weird - but you need to do it otherwise the board doesnt 'grab' the wave and you cant turn.

Mmm, my last comment triggered a memory and again Jaffa to the rescue. Look at this thread and Jaffa's photos a few posts in - great example of both the rules above. See in particular his series of photos at Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:36 - pop up looking down the line, then there is a turn showing the tail weighted (nose a bit in the air)

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=22225

Also the last post with the video showing the angling/pop up

Everyone (by that I mean me and therefore everyone!) stuffs things up now and then - angles too much and misses the wave, goes for a bottom turn too late, weights the back foot too much and bogs the board rather than turning it. But over time its less and less and so you too will be a pipeline

ngreene wrote:Haha, thanks jaffa! However, I lean back on my longboard and I have never wiped out turning, it's just that the wave catches up and I end up surfing whitewater. Also, I want to try angled take offs, but I often have a hard time paddling hard enough into waves anyways, and so wouldn't this make catching waves much harder? Thanks for the advice.

It's not much harder to get in at an angle - its should be only a slight angle anyway. But if catching the wave at an angle is a problem, here's a work-around until you get the hand of paddling in at an angle:

Paddle into the wave straight on. As you catch the wave, push up a bit on your arms into a sort of "cobra" position with your back arched and at the same time, lean into one rail depending on the direction you want to go. So you are digging one rail into the wave face and starting to angle across the wave BEFORE you fully pop up. Then, as the board starts to angle across the wave, bring your feet under you and complete the pop-up. This method seemed to work for me back when I couldn't paddle in at an angle.

Also, as others have said, you tend to go where you look. So try to look at the lip and not at your feet or the bottom of the wave. This will help a lot with getting sideways across the wave.

Time to turn this into a main site tutorial I think.

surf patrol wrote:Time to turn this into a main site tutorial I think.

I agree – it's a great thread with loads of useful information.

As a shortboarder, I might edit this sentence a bit though

dtc wrote:On a shortboard, you can do a rail turn, just lean against the rail and you do a nice 'U' turn. The board turns itself

Mine fleshin' doesn't

This is a great thread, DTC those pics are pure pron!!

Just wondering if something you said might be a reason so many beginners want to hit that short board as soon as possible.. The bit about how on a shorter board you lean and carve with the natural curve of the rail, it seems more intuitive than the effort required to LB turn.. In a way a guy like me beginning has to learn a skill that feels unnatural when naturally the method of turning that seems most plausible is correct but not for this length of board.

I could be making massive school boy errors and assumptions here so stand ready to be corrected, just thought it could explain a lot of the guys frustrations at the start dying to get something shorter because their mind is telling them ",hey this is wrong , you should be able to turn like this!" In a way LB surfing does lock you in earlier to going straighter which is no bad thing in the early days and if you're a LB rider at heart it's what you've gotta learn.

I'm really interested in what peazz has to say about this because I've been following his story with interest, his determination and sheer amount of concentrated water time has born results where it would have frustrated the living daylights out of 99% of the rest of us mere mortals I'm sure!! But he has the insight of learning by going more quickly to his type of craft and learning in a way that feels more 'natural' to him perhaps? Again I'm guessing a bit here.

May I add I ride on a big old 8'4 and I have to learn that way as the waves are so weak and I get little water time compared to the 3 times a week lads that to learn on anything less would prob be sheer madness and a lesson in abject frystratuon. Having said that I remember a rental session where I took out a vastly shorter but more floaty foamie and although harder initially to pop up, when I did, boy did that thing turn!! So I'm wondering if that has a bearing on all those beginners itching to saw a few feet of their boards.

Your thoughts will humble me no doubt but genuinely interested!

P.s I'm happy long boarding it.. Love the glide and don't know much else at the most!

No doubt a shortboard is much easier to turn and perhaps is more natural.

Once you have caught a wave and stood up and can control it, that is.

The problem with a lot of beginners is that they jump to the last thing first ie the actual standing and surfing. Which is of course the fun bit and the reason we all surf. But until you have the skills to get to that bit, to catch the wave, to pop up without losing balance and all the rest, whats the point? Its like practicing your goal celebrations before you learn how to kick a ball or even understand the rules and then start playing with barefoot with one eye closed against seasoned professionals who just laugh at you. Its going to be a while before those celebrations occur.

I think a lot of people don't realise just how many hours and for how many years those shortboard surfers they see around and doing the turns and stuff have been surfing. Its looks easy but its taken years (its not unknown for people to have spent 15 hours per weekend and a few hours per weekday surfing when they were growing up - for years on end). And it is an almost unique sport, where your first board will probably not be your last-there aren't many sports where the equipment can change so much in response to your improving skill. Again, people want to jump to their final board to start off with

I perfectly understand the desire - maybe now that I'm old I am better able to weigh up the benefits vs the risks and find a balance that suits me; when younger probably I would be over emphasising the benefits and under valuing the risks. Which is what being young is all about, after all.

Make your longboard into a short(er)board. Is there a magic button your press and the board shrinks ? Nope, just step back over the fins .... and Poof !......... your board changes for 9'0" to 3'0". Your rail line automatically becomes shorter, making it easier to turn. Riding flat you have to turn the whole 9'0" of rail.

Thanks waikikichan, love that PIC! Your pithy replies always get me thinking. Felt this today in just a slightly larger wave than I have been on and naturally stepped back due to the size of the drop.. Hey Presto!! Much shorter board much livelier too!!