Struggling to get in at an angle..

[peazz]

Hey guys,

I have been surfing like a complete boss the past couple of weeks, Ive been having 2 sessions per day at current im upto 8 days in a row, Im in amazing shape and my fitness is through the roof.

Now, Im getting in the punchy part of the wave, just before it breaks. Im able to take the step drops weight my back foot on the free fall etc, but what im really struggling with is getting down the line and ahead of the breaking wave to get any type of turn off.

I've tried dropped in straight and trying a bottom turn, but by the time im half way through the turn, the white water has caught up and it forces me straight towards the beach.

On my old 7s 6"3, I had this down to a T, I just threw an extra paddle before my pop up in the direction I wanted to go, But for some reason on my shorter board, even if I paddle in at a slight angle, The pop up on my board seems to straighten me up towards the beach.

Would love some advice on this as its really bugging me and im tired of straight rides to the beach, I can feel how twitchy my board is, it just wants to be thrown around but I just cant seem to get there, Up till now, Im 100% self taught with no lessons at all!

EDIT: heres some images to show what I mean.


Wave caught and its green, excuse the face, but hey gotta commit if you want something right?


taken the freefall and trying to get into the pocket of power with a bottom turn



white water hits and it straightens me up

- Andy

[pandarturo]

Don't bottom turn. It sounds funny but unless you're on a super powerful wave bottom turns are usually a waste of time and energy abd actually take you out of position. If you take off on the top half of the face from the get go you'll be ahead of the white wash off the bat and generating speed.

[oldmansurfer]

Try using your ankles to angle to board so that it sticks to the track you want it too so angle it toward the wave. Do this right when you pop up then you will be going sideways before you reach the bottom.

[BuffDriver]

These lessons have helped me visualize the angled takeoff and be successful with it, among other things that has helped me excel quickly. Great series.

[peazz]

Hey buff,

Already watched these several time and over several month, the problem is not that i cant paddle in at an angle, the problem is that my pop up normally straightens me up

[IB_Surfer]

Your pop up is not staightening you out, it's your padding, you are being flung down the wave. It's a beginner thing, as you get better you have more speed and catch the wave early, so you can turn before it curls out completely. Also, as you get better at paddling you need to get better at your popup.

Lastly, one correction: I always pop up with pressure on my front foot to get instant speed, but I ease off if I am surfing steep waves and so I can pivot. Stop leaning forward LOL

[peazz]

Thanks IB, I wish i had some decent internet otherwise i would upload some clips of me kook'n out

Hopefully when we head down to the gold coast, I can get some cleaner conditions and proper internet and get some real feedback. Out of all my time here in the sunshine coast so far, there has been 1 clean day where i actually got into green waves because of the lack of surface chop. If im honest, its been really disappointing, none the less im still surfing haha! 9 days in a row atm

[hit_the_lip]

From what I'm reading peazz, I'm not sure your understanding how to set your rail properly. Your rail is like a knife, you should knife your rail right into the wave. I usually perform this by doing a pump. Once your rail is set into the wave, your good to cruise down the face. But it all starts from setting the rail as quickly as you can, usually performed by a combination of a angle take off and a pump. The pump allows you to stay up on the face without going to the bottom. Hope this helps

[hit_the_lip]

To add on to my previous post, there are so many things that come into play also. Wave selection is crucial. If your selecting waves that are walled up closeouts, there will be no face to ride and nowhere to turn. Positioning, timing also important. Are you reading the wave properly and turning the right way? Are you putting yourself on the shoulder with the nose of the board angled to the open face?

[drowningbitbybit]

Knowing what you've been surfing for the last week, I think to a large extent you can blame the waves. Obviously it can be done - if you're on the gold coast, you'll see a lot of people managing with no problem - but it makes life a lot more difficult.
But the small summery waves of late haven't got the power or size to make the board plane properly, so you can easily get bogged down without the ability to turn.

A board that planes easier, like a fish, is the best cure for summery waves, but that doesn't help much while you're travelling...

[IB_Surfer]

By the way, when it's choppy windy conditions I usually take out my step up, it seems to do better with the chop. Check out a buds bigger board on a bad day and see if that helps any.

[peazz]

Im still struggling with this, Could it be the fact that im riding quads? I have short arms and find my wave count is over double that with thrusters and my energy lasts ALOT longer.

I have been out in the 3-4ft groundswell today and my pop up is <1 second or just over 1 second, but never 2 (checked my gopro footage).

I wiped out on 2 big ish waves today purely because I was taking the drop to vertical and the waves were pretty damn steep and jacked up really fast... Im not being flung forward by the wave or lip so I feel that I have enough paddling speed, But not being able to get in angled is starting to tick me off xD

If i follow all the advice you find online (which is focused on long boarders) and angle at a 45* ish angle the wave just does not take me its like I have to take off straight..

[Lebowski]

45 degrees is too much I think. I would say max 30 degrees really unless it's tiny waves on a longboard.

Personally, when I catch a wave at an angle, I actually paddle perpendicular to the wave. Only once I've definitely caught the wave do I begin to turn the board. You can see on this sequence below.....



First picture, I've just caught the wave after paddling pretty straight. I start to angle the board using my hands which are in 'pop' position.
Next picture, I've angled a bit more and am getting up.


Halfway through my pop I'm now at about 45 degrees....




And away. Notice I'm looking where I want to go.



I noticed in that video you posted a couple of days ago from Newcastle that the wave had already broken when it got to you. If you try and do an angled takeoff on whitewater it will push you straight.

[spectrefish]

I've been surfing for about 3 years and I'm at a point where my frontside surfing is pretty solid but my backside needs a lot of work.

from the looks of things in your picture you are goofy foot and surfing backside on the wave right?

This has been a very difficult hurdle to get over for me since my backside is very awkward. (insert backside joke here:______________)

I think my biggest problem is that I don't want to lean far enough forward toward the nose because I feel like I'm going to fall forward off the board when surfing backside.

My usual backside scenario goes like this:
1. paddle at too little of an angle (15 degrees)
2a. pop up and lean too far forward instead of toward the nose, digging the left rail in and turning toward the whitewater
(or)
2b. pop up and lean too far back instead of toward the nose, digging the right rail in and either popping up over the back of the wave or simply falling ass first into the wave because I've lost my balance.
(or)
2c. my personal favorite, popping up and leaning just slightly back and toward the nose which sends me hurling down the line with a look of utter surprise because I usually never get it right. Then I get all excited when I get to the bottom of the wave and I dig my heels in too much to start pumping and usually send myself straight up over the back of the wave ending my ride. (sigh)It's truly a fine balancing act on my relatively narrow board.

from your pictures it appears that you are leaning too far forward and kind of digging your rail in toward the whitewater, essentially turning straight into the whitewater instead of going down the line. I do this all the time when I surf backside. I'm goofy foot too. practice shifting your weight a little more toward your heels and lean toward the nose of your board. dig your left heel into the board a little more but not too much because you'll kick your board out from under you and fall backward into the face. If you dig both heels into your board too much and you aren't leaning toward the nose you'll bury the rail and fall into the face too.

probably one of the most important things I have forgotten to mention is to always, always, always point your leading shoulder in the direction you want to go. This usually always puts your weight in the proper place on the board.

hope some of this helps, I feel your frustration when surfing backside!

[peazz]

Lebowski, Your images illustrate how I have been managed to get in angled on my 7s superfish in hong kong, but dont seem to be working on my latest board..once i get some decent conditions I will try this..one thing I will say is my board really does not like to get into waves unless they are near hollow and breaking (with the condition I have out here at current)

since my newcastle video ive not really had any decent conditions, by the time i find car parking, the trade winds already picked up and its a load of junk.. if they have not picked up the waves are just breaking in knee high water so not really bothered, Im back to bondi tomorrow so hoping the bay provides some wind protection!

@spectre - I am indeed goofy, one thing I do ALOT is bog the rails on turns so maybe I am being to heavy footed? I picked up a set of fcs v-2 quads (k2.1 quads) and hoped with them being a little harder to turn it may help out on bogging the rails but yet to get an quality surf to really test them out, Ive lost some speed into waves with the fin change so its not helping xD

As soon as i get some good conditions, Ill be putting all the advice into action and get back to you all..

[Rickyroughneck]

One thing that isn't mentioned; could your board be overfinned?

Too much fin makes the board resist turning, so that it always faces the direction of travel. If you can, try downsizing the fins to see if it helps. I've never ridden a quad, but maybe you could take the trailer fins out just for one surf just to see if it loosens up.

[peazz]

I am 5"5 69.8kg on FCS Mediums?

[dtc]

One thing that isn't mentioned; could your board be overfinned?

Too much fin makes the board resist turning, so that it always faces the direction of travel. If you can, try downsizing the fins to see if it helps. I've never ridden a quad, but maybe you could take the trailer fins out just for one surf just to see if it loosens up.

Was out surfing over Christmas on my 'new' (7ft4) board - not so new, but relatively unused for several months because of a knee injury and an overseas trip. Was catching waves but struggling to make the turns, ending up heading toward the beach and not surfing the face. I also noticed it was harder to paddle at an angle to the wave pre-pop up.

Being a new board was wondering if it was my skill levels, or I needed to surf it differently to my longboard (9ft1) or it needed bigger waves or it was just not a good board (the last was unlikely because its from a very respected shaper).

Spotted Ricky's comment and thought 'well, why not give it a go'. I had a thruster set up with fairly large fins (the fins are between M5 and M7 FCS), which are recommended for my weight category but were bought without 'research' after I broke one of my other fins and needed something straight away. The only smaller fins I had handy were my longboard sidebites - tiny 3inch things - so I swapped the side fins out and left the centre fin. So like a 2+1 set up with a pretty smaller centre fin.

Well, perhaps it was the waves but probably it was the fins - the board was SO much easier to surf, catching waves and turning was simple and I dont think I lost any speed. Able to make the face and had some really long rides.

So I now feel pretty stupid that I didnt think of the fins at all when struggling - big thanks to Ricky

And I guess am now in the 'what fins should I really be using' zone of uncertainty (I mean, a thruster with a 2+1 set up?? On the other hand, its still a pretty big board so why not? Or do I go for small M5's all around, or leave it as is or...). I'll probably leave as is for now but will think about it.

Anyway, for Andy - I know you have experimented with several fin combos. But, keep the fins in mind - see whether your smallest fins help turning - or maybe you need the larger fins for more speed. Or a combo of a centre fin from one set and side fins from another. Also keep in mind the sweep (the degree to which the tip extends beyond the fin’s base) Fins with a large sweep (or a more rigid fin) have more drive and stability but less turning ability (and vice versa).

A quad is harder to turn anyway and partly this is because there is more fin area (because there are 4 fins), so more drive (speed) but you are fighting the fins when turning.

And to answer your other question (in another thread) about why a quad is easier to paddle - basically, the centre fin creates drag. With a quad, no centre fin, less drag and faster board. The downside is that its harder to turn - thrusters have a central 'pivot' point (that centre fin). 'More drive from a quad, more pivot from a thruster'.

[drowningbitbybit]

A quad is harder to turn anyway and partly this is because there is more fin area (because there are 4 fins), so more drive (speed) but you are fighting the fins when turning.

And to answer your other question (in another thread) about why a quad is easier to paddle - basically, the centre fin creates drag. With a quad, no centre fin, less drag and faster board. The downside is that its harder to turn - thrusters have a central 'pivot' point (that centre fin). 'More drive from a quad, more pivot from a thruster'.

Not strictly true for two reasons.

#1. Although a thruster has fewer fins, the centre fin will (usually) be placed in the middle of two concave sections, so will give good drive when the board is planing. A quad (particularly boards with five boxes) will often have the fins out on the flat section of the board, and this - together with the angle of the fins - can reduce drive. Not always true, obviously, but can be true for the level of boards that joe average rides (and also not very well explained by me).

#2. A quad will often be looser and skatier than a thruster, so will turn easier, but have less hold. This makes turning simpler up to the point where you're throwing spray off the lip when it will break traction (getting a bit theoretical now - the number of times I've thrown spray off the lip I could count on one hand). So for joe average, a quad may in fact turn easier.

The point which is often missed is that the effect of the fins is almost negligible at paddling speeds (one set of fins or other may be slightly harder to paddle, but that's about it, and if that's the problem - paddle harder), and then increases from negligible to critical the faster the board goes. If your board is not planing properly, then it's not going to turn well - or hug the green face along the line - no matter what fins you have in there.

[peazz]

Hey Guys,

What an informative thread this is turning out to be not only for me but for the rest of the users here.

Im aware at the obvious reasons why quads are easier to paddle and thrusters are not, as with a quad more water flows through the center of the board creating more drag.

But why such a huge difference between different quad sets? my k2.1 quads are considerably harder to get into waves but once they lock in boy do they start up fast.

The problems I am facing right now is my short ass arm, As soon as that board lifts even just a bit as the bigger waves him me, I lose the ability to dig deep, Should I just aim for more speed before the wave catches up? or should I just take off in a even more critical position?

I honestly do love the pivot from a thruster, but for my short ass arms, quads just seem to double my wave count in a session, If I lock in my AM-2 thruster set, I may not even get a wave some sessions..