Still in poo stance?

[Big H]

I sit like the pic and kneeling like a knee paddler or Japanese (lived there two years....dining room table was like a coffee table) for about 5 min watching the waves before going in....stretches and gives me study time; Dual duty!

[dtc]

Keep in mind two things - feet and hip positioning in a squat are not the same as a surfing stance - surfing you are facing your front foot, shoulders are open, your feet are often at different angles to each other (eg back foot 3 oclock, front foot 1 oclock). Squatting everything is squared up (although your feet may be at 1oclock and 5 oclock). Also in squatting you want to push your knees out, not let them collapse in (which is incorrect technique). Squats are still extremely useful for strength, flexibility etc; but practice (as well) surfing stance, not amending your squat set up. You will find that if you get into a surfer stance on land, then bend your knees in just a little, you can sink lower. It should be a fairly natural movement once you have got over the thought of pushing your knees out in order to sink down.

Secondly, on a wave you are up and cruising for, what, 10 seconds? If that; and you are constantly moving, changing positions, hip swivels and the rest. So saying things 'hurt after a while' on land is probably true, but if you are trying to hold a position with knees in for 20 seconds, its again not quite the same thing.

If you spend all day in a chair, its quite common to end up with stiff hips, shortened hip flexors and lower back. There are heaps of exercises around to loosen them up, its a thing trainers have realised is necessary nowadays and you can find them on google. But one of the best is to do what was in Big H's picture - squat down as low as you can and just sit there. It may be really hard at first, so grab something heavy (5/10kg is about right) and hold it in your hands in front of your chest (or a bit out from you chest) as a counterbalance. Sink down and sit for as long as you can. Another option is to raise your heels an inch or so (put them on a book or whatever).

Surfing does show up all of our hidden body issues!

[Big H]

I built up to being able to squat like that by keeping my back to a wall until I could do it freely. Interestingly, I started really stretching hips and knees so that I could pop up easier and it did do as I can fold myself up tighter when bringing my legs through.

I don't squat when surfing though Wchan has detail on his site for the parallel foot longboard squat a la Joel Tudor. Haven't tried yet.

Stance is something I'm actively working on as well. I am a visual learner, learn by copying/emulation. So at home I practice my stance in front of the sliding glass deck door where I can see my reflection, watch surfing videos and wiggle around like a true newbie surfing geek that I've become -BUT - it actually has helped me to develop better feels in that I am more confident I'm doing it right if I've seen myself and it looks right.

Beyond that, on the wave there is precious little time to check these feels....just be loose and respond to the wave but I've found that I seem to naturally fall into stance and positions that feel "right" by just staying in balance, staying relatively low, picking turns with my hands and head high/chin up/ chest up....just kinda falls into place with gravity from speed telling you what to do like taking a motorcycle thru a corner.

So I'm more concerned with learning how to maintain and develop speed and riding bigger and better waves in terms of my form development....bigger and faster gives more feedback and that is where the real learning is happening with time in the face.

[pmcaero]

Keep in mind two things - feet and hip positioning in a squat are not the same as a surfing stance - surfing you are facing your front foot, shoulders are open, your feet are often at different angles to each other (eg back foot 3 oclock, front foot 1 oclock)!

I feel like I might be doing something wrong when I practice the stance on land or on the skateboard. It feels terribly unnatural.. Maybe I am forcing myself into a weird useless contortion . Here are some pictures. I really feel this position in my thigh muscles.

[waikikikichan]

Balance board aside, it seems you're more trying to hang on. You need to not "hold on to a wall/ railing". Look at the back hand reaching to brace on something. You need to quiet your body. Practice with both hands on your hips. And stop looking at your feet, look at something in the distance.

[pmcaero]

Look at the back hand reaching to brace on something.

Actually when I surf I keep my hands near my body, so I was trying to demonstrate a "correct" stance right now

[waikikikichan]

Your avatar shows the same reaching out / bracing for wall/rail action with your back hand, so you do the exact same thing in the water.( and your front hand close/locked to your body is another problem ) Just STAND UP ! Yes, there will be moments when you're squatted, or fully extended, leaned over, curled up in a ball, or times when you look like your doing jumping jacks. But just STAND UP and relax and do nothing but ride the wave.
Your body line is broken / hinge at the middle and you're side eyeing, which is "weak". You need to connect that line from head to feet. A problem I can see from the photo is your back foot is at 4 o'clock, which lets you knee flex inwards ( which again is "weak" )and creates the dreaded X-factor stance. Put it at 3 o'clock and that will strengthen your stance.

[dtc]

Its a bit hard to tell but you seem to be leaning back/your hips arent even (could be that back hand is putting you off balance). Put your chest over your front knee. Look forward. Relax.... (and I think your feet are a bit close together on that balance board to be trying to fix up the knees etc - just do it on the floor)

You could have any number of issues causing you difficulty - mobility, ankles (my bugbear), weak glutes, tight hips etc. For example, weak glutes/hamstrings prevents you from 'sitting back' (weight more on heels than normal) - your body wants to keep weight on the front of your foot because that uses the quad (thigh) muscles, which are stronger. (note that this is a very common issue for chair based people).

As wkk has suggested, try just standing up a few times - its not as stable (getting low adds stability) but if you arent falling off and not winding up for turns etc, then its no problem

You dont have to have a perfect stance, certainly the stance will develop as your skills develop, but you need to overcome the hinge in the middle thing. Its hard because its not normal

Good luck - impressed with the persistence

[dtc]

I'm going to give you one more test to do.... (if you dont mind)

On land stand in front of a wall with a vertical line - the line between two wardrobe doors is good, or a door frame or something. Standing tall, put your feet into surfing position. Now start crouching down (allow your feet to move as needed eg your back heel will probably come off the floor). Crouch so your head is, say 18 inches lower than standing. Now look at the line - where is your head now? Is it still even with the line or an inch or two to the right, or is it 6inches plus to the right. How are your eyes - are they level or tilted? Where are you comfortable in terms of looking - at the line or are you looking sideways?

Try again, this time putting a bit more weight on your front foot - chest over front knee (back heel can come up). How does that feel - more centred?

Keep in mind that this position is only the 'base' position ie not one that you are actually in for much of the wave, as you are turning or adjusting or whatever. But its sort of what you return to between action. Also remember you dont have to get too low - find some videos of surfers, For example, here is one I was watching for completely unrelated reasons and no one is pretending these guys are really high performance, but they are good enough. Notice they dont get too low, keep the back knee in a bit, head centred against the line of gravity. When they need to go low for barrel or whatever, back knee goes down, heel goes up etc

[Big H]

DTC....that's a nice wave....any idea where in Indo that is?

[Big H]

.....could be Ulus....

[pmcaero]

Your body line is broken / hinge at the middle and you're side eyeing, which is "weak".

Can you post one of those stick figure overlays on a surfer in the correct stance?
Thank you!

[pmcaero]

I'm going to give you one more test to do.... (if you dont mind)

Hmm , tried that...is it possible I am not leaning enough over my front knee? Maybe instinctively pulling back as I pop up?
Leaning forward seemed a little better in terms of comfort and stability. I will have to practice more popups on a surfboard outline and see if I can end up in the same position.

[pmcaero]

just to be clear, by forward I mean in the direction the nose of the board would point.

[jaffa1949]

.....could be Ulus....

Definitely not Ulus! Not from any angle! But where I don't know!

[waikikikichan]

Your body line is broken / hinge at the middle and you're side eyeing, which is "weak".

Can you post one of those stick figure overlays on a surfer in the correct stance?
Thank you!

Stop looking for FORMS. As Bruce Lee said "Be like Water". In your case, listen to the wave/ be like the ocean ever changing. You are too stiff. If I post a photo of the "correct stance", at what moment in time, at what point on the wave will it apply to you ?

Your image of the correct stance might be from surf instructor surf lesson videos for newbies/first timers. Really low and hands way out.And leaning forward on the front knee to keep from flipping backwards. It's stable for going straight on your first time trying to balance on the 10' foot soft top.

Just STAND UP tall, ride your height, Keep your EYES up and Out ( look to where you want to go ), Point with your front hand where you want to go, Back foot at about 3 o'clock and Front foot at 1 o'clock. Keep your head over your butt.

[pmcaero]

Keep your head over your butt.

Correct me if I am wrong, I am starting to form a theory that right after pop up I should be lower and leaning more ahead, to get more speed and stability. I tried that position and it is also more comfortable to stay low without getting in the poo stance. This is a momentary thing, not a "permanent" stance, but I think it might help in smaller waves, to set up for a better, faster ride. You can see how I sort of "recoil" from the drop in this clip:

[waikikikichan]

A lot of people get confused by " Keep your head over your butt ". It not only in up and down straight up to the sky. As surfers we are not on a perfectly flat sidewalk, we ride on moving angles. Try to keep that power line from your head thru your feet THRU to the board and it's stringer line. http://alohaki.jugem.jp/?eid=457

Correct me if I am wrong, I am starting to form a theory that right after pop up I should be lower and leaning more ahead, to get more speed and stability.

Speed and Stability. There is no speed to gain in whitewater, that part of the wave is where the wave has finished "given" up it's energy. Looking for Stability in turbulent churning whitewater is fruitless.

If you want to gain speed and stability, learn TRIM. Where you just glide (roll) along the wave's face No faster NO slower than what the wave is. After you learn TRIM, you can learn to speed up or slow down. Right now you're just holding on.

You can see how I sort of "recoil" from the drop in this clip

In Golf terms, I would say you "swung out of your shoes". You are trying too hard, just relax.

[dtc]

DTC....that's a nice wave....any idea where in Indo that is?

No idea - was a random video I was watching because they were riding the same kind of board as I have (and do it much better than I do).

[BoMan]

BIC Sports created a helpful "Trim and Turn" video.