Help with my turtle roll troubleshoot

[BoMan]

Videos and WkkkChan's blog have helped me. Have fun learning

Turtle Roll

Catch Green Waves

Angled Takeoff

Chan's Blog
http://alohaki.jugem.jp/

[oldmansurfer]

The turtle roll demo is not that great. It shows you how to do it but not when to do it. That wave I would have just kept paddling and plowed through it. Also you have to be sure the nose doesn't get caught by the wave so if it's small like those waves not so much of a problem but if it's bigger then it's a bigger problem. But I guess it gives you the general idea . The wave I did it on recently was maybe four times higher and in a similar situation. I was paddling to get over the wave but it started to break suddenly. I didn't have time to duck dip so I did a quick flip over and to my surprise rolled right back over after the wave passed by. But again on the wave in the video I would have just plowed ahead poked the board through the wave and took the lip on my back/legs or not at all. The wave in the video is not a wave that is difficult to go through and there are many options that would have worked just as well. The angled takeoff seems pretty reasonable but the green wave one isn't working for me

[Laviz]

Spend time on the beach just watching the surf....you can learn a lot without getting wet; it's really a necessary part of surfing, watching how the conditions change relative to changing variables. Watch waves as they form in the distance and try to guess how they will break based on what you're currently watching....will it be like the day's type a, b, c or d? Learn to see and read the indicators that will let you know if the wave will be a good one or not from the beach then translate that into the water. Come to the beach at odd times when you don't plan to surf just to watch and learn. Pay attention to all details, time the sets and the intervals between sets on your watch....notice if there are a couple of good waves that roll through just about exactly halfway timed between sets - lookout for those in the water, they surprise a lot of people but are as regular as sets, timing wise.

Honestly I can't refrain myself from getting wet! FYI I don't live near the beach in fact there is no wave in my country. I have to spend 2-3hours+ car journey (depending on the traffic/immigration custom) just to get to the beach...so you know...but I take my time to watch it when I am resting. Meanwhile I like watching videos on surfing to see if i can pick up anything hahaha. Sometimes it actually helps me to click when the video point out the common mistake beginners make and I'll try to correct myself in the next surf. And also of cause from this forum. I find this tip especially helpful "where you look is where you go." Because of this I manage to go down the line once or twice if I am lucky to catch the watch

Will start a new thread on the other topic

[Laviz]

Take off at an angle, which is often difficult because you have to paddle better or when you popup turn the board by pushing down more on the inside rail or when you stand use your ankles to turn the board pushing the inside rail into the wave or any combination of these

Right I'm going try the angle thing. Pushing the rail while standing is abit difficult with my current ability at the moment lol. Everytime I see the nose digging, my body just goes into preparing for wipe out... I read that I should try popping up at this point. It seems possible if I manage to shift my weight toward the back then the nose might pop back up. But getting it into action is another story hahaha

[oldmansurfer]

Ahh so you are pearling before you popup? You should have popped up well before you pearl. I don't know much about this problem because I never had this problem but others can help you. I can ride a surfboard on my belly just fine but then I was a bodyboarder before I was a surfer.

[Laviz]

Yup I see the nose start to dig when I am half way catching the wabe while still lying down...maybe at that point I have already caught the wave I am not sure either

[Laviz]

Thanks for the video BoMan.

Will start another thread on this when I'm free

[waikikikichan]

It seems possible if I manage to shift my weight toward the back then the nose might pop back up.

And that will make you pearl more, the exact opposite of what you were hoping for:
1) because you will cut the momentum, shifting means you stop paddling
2) the board becomes a snow plow
3) as the board slows down, instead of gravity pulling it down, the energy rolling up the face lifts the tail upwards.

There's more to it, but you have to go with it, as the wave steepens up the nose will pop out if you have enough forward motion. My nose goes under all the time, I just paddle harder.

Oh, and stop looking at the nose of the board. ( and your feet when you pop up )

[Laviz]

Thanks waikikikichan. aahhh so I should just continue to paddle!

You are right I have a habit of looking at the nose. I need to constantly remind myself to look where I want to go but I usually only do it when I finish popping up. I will take extra note on this thank you!

[Alex44]

I've got a "personnal" technique for you that is easier (in my opinion) than the turtle roll.

Basically the point of a good turtle roll is to dive your nose and keep your body vertical to reduce the drag. The idea is that you roll so that you don't really got out of your board.

The problem is that you need to have a right timing while the wave is behind you, which is tricky.

What i was doing when I was younger is using the same idea, except that you face the wave, and don't roll.

So, when you see the wave approaching:

1) you get out of your board and grab your board under your arm as you do when you walk on the beach, not fully on the deck, not fully on the rail, in the middle.
2) When the wave is about to pass you, you dive the nose of your board and hold your board tight while swimming with your leading arm underwater (try to stay quite vertical and quite deep). Don't move your feet too much as you might touch your fins.
3) then go back on it and paddle again

The pro is that you will see everything and will probably have a way better timing. The cons are that you have to get down of your board and get back on it, and that you can touch your fins if you move too much your feet.

In my opinion the cons are still far better than a wrong turtle roll that will send you straight on the beach ! If you try let me know I'm curious to know if it worked for you!

[Laviz]

Hi Alex44,

Hmm but how do I hold the nose down with 1 arm while swimming? BTW I am using a foam board 7'0 and I weight 110LB/50kg. I can only push the nose down when I am on the board with two hands - abit like doing a push up. Other than that I find it hard to sink the board when I am standing and trying to pull the nose down with me - while charging at the wave. Most of the time the board just slip away and I get pull by the board - cause leash.

[Alex44]

Basically you have one arm holding the board (the board is held between your chest and your arm), human beings have a wonderful natural surf rack called armpits ! ;lol: (for once they are useful, and your board really won't move too much!).

For example, I'm right handed so I hold my board with my right arm/right side of my chest right into my right armpit (I need to find a name for that technique including the word armpit, like the armpit duck dive or something ! ). Remember that I'm off my board when I do that, my body is vertically floating on the left side of the board. My left arm is completely free and I use it to penetrate the water easily like a normal dive/swim and to move towards the wave (a bit of speed does help).

Don't worry I'm not a heavy weight either ! (63 kgs...). But I was able to not getting dragged too much with a board of 6'8" x 22.5' Not sure how much it is in liters but probably well over 40L. I tried recently with longboard and it works too, so a 7 surfboard should work, and since it's a foamie, your armpit is safe will feel at ease.

No need to really push the nose like a duckdive, actually it's more about holding it tight, so that when you dive with your left hand and create a "space" the board is kind of following you. You don't really duck dive the wave with your board, you duck dive yourself and the board comes along !

It's complicated to explain and I'm not sure ro be clear at all!

Of course it's not a technique to use on a 2m barrel (neither is the turtle roll)but for most of average waves you will be just fine.
Then the idea is to be clever and find your way out quickly, but it is still less exhausting than ditching your board, turtle roll, and even duck diving...

[Laviz]

HAhaha Alex44 armpit duck dive! Yea I kind of understand better now. so if the board is on ur right armpit your left hand is diving into the water...then your front body will be facing the seabed right? like a normal dive but with a board under your arm?

P.S: if it works for me u better think of a name for it lol

[Big H]

Basically you have one arm holding the board (the board is held between your chest and your arm), human beings have a wonderful natural surf rack called armpits ! ;lol: (for once they are useful, and your board really won't move too much!).

For example, I'm right handed so I hold my board with my right arm/right side of my chest right into my right armpit (I need to find a name for that technique including the word armpit, like the armpit duck dive or something ! ). Remember that I'm off my board when I do that, my body is vertically floating on the left side of the board. My left arm is completely free and I use it to penetrate the water easily like a normal dive/swim and to move towards the wave (a bit of speed does help).

Don't worry I'm not a heavy weight either ! (63 kgs...). But I was able to not getting dragged too much with a board of 6'8" x 22.5' Not sure how much it is in liters but probably well over 40L. I tried recently with longboard and it works too, so a 7 surfboard should work, and since it's a foamie, your armpit is safe will feel at ease.

No need to really push the nose like a duckdive, actually it's more about holding it tight, so that when you dive with your left hand and create a "space" the board is kind of following you. You don't really duck dive the wave with your board, you duck dive yourself and the board comes along !

It's complicated to explain and I'm not sure ro be clear at all!

Of course it's not a technique to use on a 2m barrel (neither is the turtle roll)but for most of average waves you will be just fine.
Then the idea is to be clever and find your way out quickly, but it is still less exhausting than ditching your board, turtle roll, and even duck diving...

I do this when I'm getting worked and I give up....hang on the nose until the set is finished.....otherwise honestly if you practice rolling it's a lot quicker than anything other than a duck dip....the goal is to get out back and waves slow you down.....so on a long, good paddling board you try to race out in the period between waves, duck dipping the face if it's close....turtle roll is better than taking one on the head but slows you down but executed correctly is still faster than getting off the board altogether, and those valuable seconds saved can be used to paddle so that you can get outside of the next wave on the way.

[Alex44]

like a normal dive but with a board under your arm?

P.S: if it works for me u better think of a name for it lol

Yes, as simple as it sounds. Ok let me know and if it works then I name it the "armpit ducky" (patented, all right reserved ) ! Sounds badass.

I do this when I'm getting worked and I give up....hang on the nose until the set is finished.....otherwise honestly if you practice rolling it's a lot quicker than anything other than a duck dip....the goal is to get out back and waves slow you down.....so on a long, good paddling board you try to race out in the period between waves, duck dipping the face if it's close....turtle roll is better than taking one on the head but slows you down but executed correctly is still faster than getting off the board altogether, and those valuable seconds saved can be used to paddle so that you can get outside of the next wave on the way.

I still do it sometimes too , even if I'm mostly surfing shortboards these days... Usually I do it when I'm stuck in a shorebreak or a shallow reef where it's not possible to really duck dive properly without hitting the board, your knuckles or both. Or when I've been worked and didn't have time to go back on my board when the next wave is coming. But as you said, that's usually when I've given up!

[oldmansurfer]

I do the armpit duck when I am walking my board out through shorebreak

[Laviz]

Hi guys update on my surf yesterday.

Sadly I can't do the armpit duck! Is one of the rail suppose go under my armpit and another rail grip by my hand? Cause I tried to do this but my hand is too short! I can't reach my hand towards the other rail! Maybe only the finger tip. I end up going out the way I am better at. Paddle and push up but sometimes almost fall off the board when the wave pass and the gravity hits. Is this normal? Anything I can do about this?

But! I think I'm better at finding spots and timing to get out! Now i kind of know where the shoulders.

Sadly I feel like I have gone backwards in terms of popping up. I kind of get less pearling by looking where I want to go while paddling. I didn't manage to angle my board though. Kind of just fall off. I definitely don't have enough paddle speed. Is not something I can really improve in a day or two...

I manage to finally catch one clean wave but I must admit it was with the help a push by my brother lol. But I fail anyway...slip after popping up. I don't know what's up yesterday I never really hard problem popping before. But ytd I just keep slipping or just can't stand up. Maybe I didn't wax my board well ..I don't know. But yesterday sesion is kind of demotivating. Feel like I could never get better. Sorry for the rant.

[dtc]

Somedays are good, somedays are terrible

The key requirements of surfing are optimism (it will get better) and persistence (you will keep trying until it gets better). The next wave might be the one!

For the armpit hold, don't hold across the middle but about the same place as for the duck dive (closer to the nose). It's exactly the same concept - pull the nose down and under the white water. Indeed, if you flip the board it's better as the rocker now works for you (pushing the nose under) rather than against you. So it's more or less a turtle roll except you are facing forward and to the side of the board. It is slower as big h says but it can feel better to face forward for some reason

It does sound like your paddling isn't quite right - you may want to move out 2-4 metres and start paddling 3-4 seconds earlier. Speed is the key. You don't need to necessarily angle the board- I find that going straight and angling the board immediately after popping up works better for me, but you might not be at the 'turning' stage as yet. So try a few different angles and see which works best

Slipping on pop up, for me, is a classic sign of having done a lazy pop up using my back foot to push up rather than one movement. Because the tail of the board usually isn't well waxed, you just slip. This may or may not be the same for you

[Laviz]

Thanks DTC. I need to stay positive. Well at least my intense muscle ache proof that I have been trying hard?!

For armpit duck - Yea I did try it higher up the nose but the weight of the back of the board is a bit hard to manage? How do I say...the back is flowing freely so it's kind of hard to manage the front? I can get pass wave pretty okay when it's "walkable". I have most problem when the water is above my waist and when the wave is breaking infront of me. Then usually it's because of my bad timing and me being out of breathe to paddle out. So now I just stay and wait or go the long route.

I did try to move further out but I keep missing the wave. I am trying to catch wave like long boarder does - where they are already up and surfing when the waves are still rolling. But I seem only to be able to catch wave that is almost breaking and have this "drop" feeling. Or maybe I did not even caught the wave - the wave may have just break right behind me? Is it because I am using a board that is too short? Soft top 7'0. Or I am just not paddling fast enough. Ya I still need to experiment more with this angle thing but for now i find going straight kind of easier?

I think I have always been popping up kind of having my back leg landing first. I am not very sure. Is it a bad thing? Cause it's kind of a habit now =/.

In case anyone is wondering why I am buying such a "short" board. It's not because I want to be cool or anything...in fact I kind of want to learn to nose ride but that's a skill far ahead, not something I want to think about now.
It is the longest I can fit in my car...

[Laviz]

I found the video on armpit duck here at 2mins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol7_263urLg