Intermediate getting hung up

[oldmansurfer]

Well Big H that is interesting. I guess I am the one who fun boards are fun for but it may not apply to all. Well anyway that is good work there and I will tone down my responses since your millage may vary depending on the person.

[Big H]

I dunno....I have a funboard and love it.....have another board that is 7'8" and 3 in thick but well foiled and like that one too.....if fun boards didn't work they wouldn't exist right? I think it's more about a board suiting the kind of wave ridden and the rider on it....OMS you get customs so that takes the guess work out of it....like I said, a custom board might be a good consideration for the OP.

[oldmansurfer]

I totally love my funboards, they are awesome

[oldmansurfer]

I think I am one of those guys who needs volume

[Big H]

I know I do (need volume)....not getting any younger and I'm not small.......i think those grovel boards get a lot of people in trouble who mistake them for a board that can be ridden on a variety of waves and conditions....I tried a couple out of curiosity....funny thing is that in spite of the volume they didn't paddle as well as longer boards I'd used with lower volume. And they were tricky in jacking waves, hollow waves or pretty much anything other than fat onshore crumblers....didn't really ride well either in the conditions we usually have, super fat rails bouncing off the wall....catching a wave was like getting rear ended and they were hard to hold position in the lineup with since any breeze or current would move you around as you were sitting so high in the water....worked good on two days that were crumbly and fat, but happens so rarely I can remember both days......

The more discussions like this, the more I read and the more I experience I'm learning that lot of strange hoodoo involved in fitting a board....that other thread you and DBBB were in has me thinking about a custom board....I'm going to wear out the favourites I have first, the smaller wave board I'm not too far away....getting pretty beat up now.

[oldmansurfer]

I enjoy my boards. Not really experiencing problems but I do notice the 7'6 doesn't paddle as well as the 8' board even though they are the same approximate volume based on how high I sit in the water. I think length is important in glide more length equals more glide once you get moving. More flotation means easier to paddle but I guess at some point that may become not effective. I need to lineup the 7'6" board more carefully. I may have a slightly decreased wave count but It turns really well. Hahaha welll you know don't listen to me because I have never bought an off the rack board

[Big H]

Hahaha welll you know don't listen to me because I have never bought an off the rack board

....or really listen for that very reason.

[waikikikichan]

Mini Sims is an extreme in terms of tail width and floatation....I'd say that the tail shape was the culprit more than nose or overall rocker or technique as far as why you plowed the nose on a steeper wave..

I would say the opposite if you understand the difference in Planing hulls and Displacement hulls. There's a belly on the front that you have to push thru. Check this http://www.minisimmonssurfboards.com/su ... ll-design/

But I am wondering if the 6'4" is an actual Mini-simmons with twin keels? I haven't seen one much bigger than 5'5". If the OP 6'4" is just a wide tail hybrid/egg, then it could be the tail.

[surferbee]

But I am wondering if the 6'4" is an actual Mini-simmons with twin keels? I haven't seen one much bigger than 5'5". If the OP 6'4" is just a wide tail hybrid/egg, then it could be the tail.

Yup, it's a simmons, but I wouldn't call it "mini". It was shaped for a larger rider, and it picked up secondhand. It's set up as a quad and I've surfed it both with Future Controllers and Seaworthy's. I know simmons are supposed to be surfed smaller, but my thinking was that a larger simmons would basically surf like a funshape, but maybe a little quicker because of the near-parallel rails and the block tail. Still, the issue that prompted the original question was not based just on my recent experiences w/ an oversized simmons, but something that's been eating at me awhile.

Mini Sims is an extreme in terms of tail width and floatation....I'd say that the tail shape was the culprit more than nose or overall rocker or technique as far as why you plowed the nose on a steeper wave.

Sure, that seems possible. When I think back to other boards that I've surfed I can really start to make sense of how the foam distribution affected the ride. For example, I had two different 7'2" funboards (a Pearson Arrow with a ton of foam up front but a super thin tail, and a Walden Mini Magic). In anything bigger than waist high, I could feel waves roll right under the tail section of the Pearson and engage the board further up, rather than getting that boost you feel from a thicker tail. And, I've certainly had that feeling of pearling from the tail on the Walden getting pushed up on a jacking wave if I didn't angle or accelerate fast enough on takeoff. Ultimately, neither of those 7'2"s surfed as consistently well for me as did my 8'6" or my 6'4" funboards. As George said:

So, in my opinion a choice can be made. Go even higher in volume to "get through the sound barrier" or reduce volume a bit and count on engaging in some rigorous (but productive) paddling.

I've also thought about a custom board, and I've even approached a couple of shapers before, but their answers were so wildly different from one another that it just left me confused. Plus, online volume calculators are also all over the place. For example, Board Formula (Firewire) suggests that I surf ~40L +/-, while ...Lost puts me at ~30L max. That's a big difference! Obviously, I fully understand that it's not just about volume (an unshaped block of foam could have the same volume as a finished board - they're not gonna surf the same), but still it makes it all the more tricky when you add in things like "the bad waterline" issue mentioned above. I guess it just comes down to trial and error - experimenting w/ different boards until you get the right fit. Unless I'm missing something here.

[drowningbitbybit]

I've also thought about a custom board, and I've even approached a couple of shapers before, but their answers were so wildly different from one another that it just left me confused.

If surfboards were an exact science, shapers would come up with the same boards, but shapers are just like anyone else and have their own particular style and preferences. I think it is better than you go to a shaper with an idea and let them work out the details, rather than have them start from the ground up.

Plus, online volume calculators are also all over the place

Aren't they just
The only genuinely useful one I've ever found is at...
http://www.boardcave.com.au/

It'll give you a suggestion of boards as well as a volume - not much use purchase-wise unless you happen to be in Australia, but it'll give you a place to start and is a good way to compare boards with similar volumes.

[surferbee]

I think it is better than you go to a shaper with an idea and let them work out the details, rather than have them start from the ground up.

Yeah, that was my take away, too. One guy really just wanted me to tell him exactly what I wanted. Meaning, not "I want a board that will perform well for my size and ability in 8ft points" but rather "I want a 5'8" rounded pin quad". It was like talking to a vending machine. The other guy was better but not by much, and I felt like the custom would be just as much of a crapshoot as buying a few different used boards to try out. Maybe I should talk to more shapers, though. The shaper in Big H's post seems to be on his game.

BTW, thanks for the link to Board Cave!

[Big H]

FWIW.....I never tried that board cave calculator.....just did and it strangely came back with two sets of data....there was a grouping around two different numbers, 38L and 45L. I have a few boards that are 38L and are favourites; have that one figured already. The 45L I have two boards that hit very near that as well that I also really like. I feel vindicated by my trial and error board search; keeping what worked sorted to the same as the board cave recommendations. I wonder if the no go area for me is in the middle of 38L and 45L as they recommended about 5 shortboards at 38L, then a selection of cruiser, retro fun board types starting at 45L, a couple at 46L and 47L, one each at 48L and 49L.

A little strange that nothing was recommended in between 38L and 45L; maybe that theory posted from George the shaper holds water then?

[surferbee]

it strangely came back with two sets of data....there was a grouping around two different numbers, 38L and 45L.

I like that the Board Cave calculator breaks it down by board type by showing you your volumes for shortboards, fun/retro, hybrid, etc. But, I'm still not convinced by this calculator any more than the others I see. For me, it said I should be surfing around ~24L for a shortboard and ~30L for a funshape, but it also said it couldn't find any matches for a longboard/malibu. Ok, so I guess they don't stock any, but you'd think the calculator could still pull up a number, right?

Well, this got me thinking that the calculator is just set up to sell boards in stock, so as an experiment I started messing around w/ the "advanced" buttons. When I clicked "retro/fun" for board type, it didn't matter what size wave I entered or my paddling/speed preferences, it always kicked out the same 4 boards. Yup, according to them the same 4 boards will be my best options in everything from 1-8ft+ waves regardless of whether I want extra paddle power or want to go really fast. Sounds like a campaign promise to me. Sure there are boards that can handle that range, but I would expect a decent calculator to throw out some different options, especially at the extreme end of the preferences. Like, a small fat groveler or mini sims for 1-2ft w/ paddle power; or a longer pig in 8ft+ (keeping in the retro/fun category). Right?

[oldmansurfer]

LOL I used the boardcave thing and it said there was no board available for me

[drowningbitbybit]

Maybe it's not so good then

[oldmansurfer]

I went back and did it again and this time it said I should use a hypto crypto 7'0" x 23" x 3.25" Not sure if I entered the wrong height or weight before but it's metric then does feet and inches for the board? Anyway above is my latest fungun it's 7'6" x 24" x 3+? "

[surferbee]

Update: I just got off of the phone with the shaper of the simmons, and I thought you guys might appreciate this. I was poking around on the shaper's website for the simmons, and noticed in his contact info he says, "_______ answers his own phone and welcomes any calls. He relishes the opportunity to work out the details of the board(s) you want to have made. _______ wants you to know that YOU WILL TALK TO HIM PERSONALLY." His caps, not mine. So, I thought, "Hey, why not give him a ring and get his thoughts on whether or not I can get away with surfing this oversized simmons as a funboard. Maybe, he'll also have some ideas on what a good custom board for me might look like and cost."

-RING, RING-
Shaper: (sounding grumpy) yeah?
Me: Hey man, do you have a quick sec to answer a question about one of your boards?
Shaper: You have two and a half minutes.
Me: That should be enough. I just picked up one of your mini simmons but it's not so mini. It's a 6'6" and I bought it thinking I could surf it as a funboard to take out on days when I'm feeling lazy but don't want to ride my longboard. But I'm wondering if I misjudged it. I'm 5'2", 130lbs.
Shaper: (deadpan) I could sell you a 6'0" and throw in a paddle.
Me: Uh, so you're saying even a 6'0" would be too big?
Shaper: Dude, you're 130lbs. You've got a minute and a half left.
Me: What size simmons should I be on?
Shaper: 5'4"
Me: Thanks. I appreciate it.
Shaper: Bye.

Funny, humbling, disappointing. Yeah, I feel like a dummy for thinking I could oversize that board by that much, although in the three sessions out on it I've still managed to catch a clutch of waves (albeit, not my best sessions). That aside, I can appreciate the saltiness to a degree, but that conversation doesn't bode well for trying to establish a good working relationship with a local shaper to craft a custom board. Moving on. On the plus side, though, I have a better sense of what my optimum volume should be.

[oldmansurfer]

Did you tell him you were having trouble with the board you had? Optimum volume? I don't believe in such a thing. Too many variables to determine that but trying to get one that will work for you is what you need. I doubt you can stand up paddle that board. What a grumpy guy but I guess you should have talked before buying. I do think perhaps at some point volume becomes a hindrance for a particular shape/size board. He is a shaper so he should know. I have always known my shapers on a more personal basis. They were/are important people in my life.

[surferbee]

Did you tell him you were having trouble with the board you had?

I felt like it was implied when I asked about "misjudging" it, and I would have happily said more. But, y'know, 2.5 minutes w/ a dude who doesn't seem to want to talk in the first place seems like plenty. Mostly, I wanted his opinion on whether a board he made (and I purchased) was a good match, and to open up a conversation about possibly getting a custom board from him. I'm not crying or losing sleep over the phone call, but I thought it was kinda funny and a bummer at the same time.

As for the board, I know it's surfable, because I've surfed it. But now I know that it's also probably not ideal for me. I'll likely take it out a few more times to experiment with. If it works, great; if not, I think I can resell it for what I paid and get something else, so no big loss there. Will I hit that shaper up for a custom? No, not if "having a relationship with your local shaper" means the same thing as being a guest panel on a television news show and reducing all of your communication to 2.5 minutes of sound bites.

[surferbee]

Although, he probably got off the phone w/ me and posted on Swaylock's something like: this kook calls me up today while I'm in the shaping bay in the middle of a custom glass job and want's to know if a 6'6 mini simmons is a good board for him. He weighs freaking 130lbs! You see what I have to deal with!?! I already fired my website designer, now I only wish I knew how to edit my website to pull my damn phone number off of there. LOL