paddle, pop up -- and wave goes by without me?

[waikikikichan]

my understanding is that i need to really concentrate on NOT paddling wide, and instead to make sure i am paddling right along the rails and DEEP, with long straight strokes -- reach out far ahead, dig deep, and push the water straight back behind.

Nope, straight arm will not work. Your hand stroke is just moving water that is already moving. You need to find new water to push off of like steps on a stairs. Try looking at underwater videos of swimmers. See how theirs hands move through different points as it draws back. Imagine swimming freestyle with straight arms like a wind mill, no good.

( Oh, and don't cup your hands. )

[waikikikichan]

does the more advanced method of catching the wave and heading off at an angle partially prevent pearling? is it too advanced for me to be thinking of beginning with a turn the moment i do catch a wave?

You are asking for help because waves pass by under you. But you also have a problem pearling. Those are two extremes. Missing the wave or wave catching you. You need to find the middle ground between the two. You are swinging at the baseball either too early or too late. Both end up as a strike.

Don't worry about angling in, body forward, etc. those are you reacting to try to fix the bad that already happened. Work on your paddling technique. Also in the video, you can see others are too far back on their board, feet hanging off the back. I couldn't see if your body position is the same.

[waikikikichan]

I would watch the nose of the board and when water went over the tip I stomped the tail with my rear foot. This worked really well but if you ask Waikikichan who teaches surfing he would say that is not a good thing, you should be looking at the wave not your board.

It's okay to glance at the nose, but when you just Stare at the nose waiting for the right moment ( putting all your focus on the tip ), that's bad. Like using a Tachometer shift light, you can use your peripheral vision but don't look directly at it. Anyways most people who drive a Standard transmission car don't look at the tachometer RPM's for when to shift, they go by feel. So should your timing to pop up.

[keithwdixon]

thanks waikikikichan! -- after your suggestion about paddling i was just reading this --

http://www.surfertoday.com/surfing/1027 ... t-paddling

-- and this --

http://www.surfertoday.com/surfing/1025 ... -for-waves

[waikikikichan]

Well if you want to learn " How to Surf Like a Pro in 25 Minutes ", you can watch this video.

They tell you ( at 8:06 ) to cup your hands. I don't.

[keithwdixon]

GENTS! went to long beach today and put all this good advice to use -- man, it was GREAT. i used a little something of what everyone suggested and it turned everything around for me -- previously i would only catch maybe 1-2 rides, stand up 3-4 times and miss waves, and pearl once or twice.

today, using your advice, i would say i caught 10-12 solid long rides and i didn't pearl once.

better still -- hard to explain it -- but i sort of "knew" i was going to catch each ride before i got it. like, inside my head i felt everything converge and i'd think, "i'm totally going to get this one," and i would.

here's what seemed to really make the difference:

• forward a BIT more on the board -- i was looking directly down at the bottom of the nsp logo (i'm 5'8'' on a 7'10'' funboard). that was the sweet spot. any more forward and the nose dug in the water, even a few inches back and i sensed i was putting on the brakes.
• waikikikichan -- fingers slightly spread! yes! it made a noticeable difference in my speed.
•dtc -- you were right, i needed to reach farther forward. that also made a big difference in paddle speed. in fact, i seemed to be getting a good amount of my speed from the first 1/2 of my stroke (?)
• started 5 feet farther back and started paddling sooner to get velocity going
• being more forward on the board actually DID seem to help my speed and therefore i did not pearl, but one KEY thing ---
• everything came completely together when -- waikikikichan -- i forced myself to keep my head WAY UP -- like, i told myself, "no matter what, you are head-up and head still and looking all the way in at the beach" -- i think this, combined with being forward on the board, helped me plane well with good forward speed -- a quick glance back at the wave, then forward again -- while looking up at the beach kept my back arched and so tip out of water as the wave caught me. maybe?
• finally, as basically everyone said, i forced myself to take 2-3 -- even sometimes 4-5 -- extra strokes before popping up.

so this happened! --



(yeah, i know i was in the white water and behind the green-water face on that one, but still -- i caught it right and rode it all the way in.)

so instead of just 1-2 rides, today you guys helped me get 10-12 and i think i have a handle on what i need to do.

in other words: THANKS.

[dtc]

Mate, just fantastic. So glad to hear. And thanks for letting us know

On the stroke, yes the first half is the most powerful. Once your elbows are about back to your shoulders, you can't really use your lats (big muscle) any more and are just using shoulders (small muscle). Esp when doing the powerful paddles for the wave, you might want to stop the stroke right then.

Ps: your next stage is to take a position like in the photo and turn right toward the unbroken wave, around the white water and onto the face. Along the line instead of straight. Read up on bottom turns and looking where to go etc. But that is next; for now just get comfortable in doing what you are now able to do

[mikespeed1]

( Oh, and don't cup your hands. )

Waikikikichan, could you elaborate on this? Curious about the reasons behind why this might work.

[waikikikichan]

mikespeed1 - I'm curious how you've been paddling for the last 15 years ?

But I'll make a post so others can chime in.

[keithwdixon]

Just reporting back -- fellas, with your help i have advanced a ton! just wanted to say thanks.

have a related question, now -- at what point are you ready to move beyond your mini-mal or longboard and try something shorter and nimbler?

i ask because i'm getting to the point where after i catch the wave i'm trying to turn right and begin to ride down the green face -- yet when i try that, i'm feeling that my longer board (7'10'' nsp funboard) is somehow a bit clumsy or not necessarily engineered for doing this. it sort of starts to "founder" when I turn. it seems to want me to ride in a straight line rather than turn and carve down the green water.

i have been looking with interest at the channel island average joe, which i'm reading would make a good second board because it still floats you a lot but is a little nimbler.

in short, how do you know when you're ready for that second board? i don't want to get ahead of myself, yet i don't want to hold myself back. feel free to tell me i am way off base here and need to stick with my nsp for a few years.

thanks for any advice you have!

[jaffa1949]

You are in no way ready for a shorter board , that board can turn well it is you that can't turn.
Miles of threads on this have a read.
It is most likely you are just trying to lean turn and from forward on the board.
you need to get weight on your back foot close to the fins and be driving a turn.
Leaning when you are forward either bogs a rail or makes a slow barge turn if you are lucky.
Go down in size you will bring back paddle frustration and still not be capable.
Early days yet keep surfing!

[waikikikichan]

CI's "average Joe" is for the Average surfers. You are not at that stage yet. If they made a " Beginner Joe", then maybe. You're ready to upgrade when you can do simple bottom turn, trim, turn and kick out under control. Plus you need to be able to go back side before getting a smaller board.

[Big H]

Watch, learn, try.

[keithwdixon]

thanks, gents! i definitely do not want to bring back paddle frustration! i'm feeling like i'm just beginning to "get it," so instead i'll stick with the current board and work on the bottom turn and try and build from there.

once again, thanks for your guidance! i'm improving a lot with your help.

[312T4]

Hi keith,
i've been using a 9'2 nsp for 2 good years and belive me at your stage it's not the board. It's a matter of learing how to shift your weight. You just need time. There's a video of mine in the "our video" topic. You'll see how i progress with time and it's never about the board. Just my balance and my legs learning what to do.

Going back to the pop up, with a longboard there's a moment when the wave sucks you back. Do you guys know what I'm talking about? When I feel that it's time to ride! such a good feeling!!

[312T4]

btw I will update that video sometimes in the next few months. Things are evolving in my rides!! so happy..

[pmcaero]

today I went out in 15mph sustained offshores, with stronger gusts, and failed to catch a single wave, even though I was on a shortboard. Seems like I was always pushed on the backside of the wave no matter how hard I paddled (normally I can catch smaller waves on that shortboard)

[jaffa1949]

The first question I'd ask is why? But a longboard would not be of great use in strong offshore winds unless you were very skillful. The nose area presents too much sail to try and push into the wind.
There is no way to paddle onto waves under those conditions. Your positioning needs to be precise and virtually under point where the wave breaks.
An example yesterday's surf nice full condition wind doubled in speed and the runout tide over the river mouth bar made it almost impossible to catch anything everyone who caught something went in prone

[dtc]

btw I will update that video sometimes in the next few months. Things are evolving in my rides!! so happy..

Look forward to it- the original is a great video

[keithwdixon]

Gents, just reporting back with a skills update and asking for suggestions about next steps of what to work on.

Deep into December, I am still surfing pretty much weekly -- got myself some decent cold-weather gear for Long Beach -- and am seeing some very good signs.

My paddle speed has noticeably improved -- like, this has kind of been the game-changer. i am finding that where previously if I was a bit too far outside, i would paddle and pop up but the wave would roll by under me (which meant I had to hover at the impact zone all day and get pounded), now I seem to have enough speed that I can pop up, get forward on the board to facilitate the drop and speed, and I consistently am able to catch and surf these waves. I don't know if this is conditioning, strength, or form, or perhaps a combination of all three, but it's there.

After I'm up, on rights I'm able to consistently do a bottom turn, carve back up the face, then trim my board and carve across the green water and ride the green water all the way in. (Forgive me for saying so, but holy f!cking sh!t is that fun to do and never gets old.)

I'm now able to do lefts, too, though far less elegantly -- at first I found I'd keep stalling the board (i think I was too far back?) and the wave would either sort of wash by and leave me behind, or it would flip me over into a sort of sideways pearl? I found that when I got my weight more forward on the board, this stopped happening. So i'm far from trimming and rocketing across on the lefts, but I can definitely ride them and just need to improve. I should also add -- I don't really do a bottom turn on lefts? It's really more that I know it's a left so I begin slightly angled.

Clearly I need to improve my lefts and learn to do a left bottom turn but D*MN does that seem hard to do. heelside carving stuff is just ... it feels unnatural.

I will work on the lefts but I'm hoping to hear:

• suggestions for what to work on next on my rights -- cutbacks so I stay closer to the shoulder?
• how the h*ll do I do a left-hander bottom turn instead of just doing an angled takeoff? does it matter?

I continue to use my 7'10'' funboard. if I can convince the mrs. to let me get a 5/4 suit and 5m boots/gloves, I could very well be surfing into january.