Foamie is too floaty, unprecise. Or is it me?

[marconda]

Hi everyone, I’m a beginner with a beginner question. I’m riding a 9’ soft-top board since a few months, but I’m having a hard time going down the line on steep waves.

Waves here are really fast and steep, quite small, very short and definitely chaotic (and often choppy). Difficult conditions, especially for a foam longboard.

However, and that’s what really puzzles me, it’s so much easier to consistently go down the line with my other board, which is not even a surfboard. It’s a really old Windglider windsurfing board, from the 70s, huge, long, thick and very very heavy. My uncle removed its fin decades ago, so I replaced it with a plastic fin (those ones for kayaks, finbox + removable fin) which I glued with marine epoxy resin. I glued it slightly more towards the nose than the original one. Most times I paddle with a kayak paddle (sitting or kneeling) and when the rail engages the face of the wave that thing zips down the line super fast and super stable. I usually grab the outside rail to trim even more. I noticed that, although the board is thick, the rails are quite sharp. While going down the line I can then stand, walk to the nose, or lay down, sit, sometimes I even spinned on my butt 180 degrees and continued reverse. It’s great fun! (although you can completely forget about cutbacks)

That board got me more and more into surfing over the last years, until a couple of months ago I bought my first foamie: 9’ long, 95 liters, mostly because I wanted to be able to catch as many waves as possible. And that worked, I spent a lot of time in 1 foot waves studying the timing, the paddling, the positioning on the lineup, angling the takeoff and going down the line. I thought I got it, then bigger waves came and my sessions became really frustrating (although I also had some really good waves).

The problem is that I keep either nosediving or missing the wave. I figured that, since the waves are so fast and steep, the crucial aspect is angling the board at the right moment (too soon: you miss, too late: nosedive). Basically that's also the moment you have to stand up. And then trimming like crazy to stay high, but that feels almost impossible with this board: to much volume, it floats too much, it feels like it doesn’t “bite” the water at all. I saw videos of Jamie O’Brien getting barreled with a 9’ foamie though, so it must be possible.

I thought swapping fins (I have FCS boxes, thruster setup) might help, but here it gets confusing, since two aspects seem to contradict each other: in order to turn quicker at the takeoff I need agile fins, but in order to stay high on the face I would need some drive (like my old Windglider). Today I decided to try and remove the central fin, and it was better, just a couple of nosedives. But still this feeling of a floating, indecisive board, and of having little control, little precision, which was probably worsened by the dual fin setup.

How can I improve my experience with this board? Maybe harder fins but more vertical, with less rake?

Thank you all, Marco

[Geezer]

I have an 8’ board with fat rails and high volume. It is harder to sink a rail and get tight to the wave face than with a board with thinner rails, true. Response is more muted and slow than othe lower volumed and shorter boards and sometimes feels like Im driving a bumper car and bouncing off the wave wall. That said, it catches waves like a dream, can get in early and avoid the fast jack before it happens.

Not all waves are surfable. Is anyone else out and catching waves from the spots that you try and fail? Hiw is that same break at different tide levels? There is going to be a set of conditions that your break is optimal and conversely will be conditions that it is un surfable. Then there are degrees in between that you need to study and learn so that you will know when it is “working” and when its not.

Choppy, rough conditions a heavier board will cut thru easier so maybe thats the difference you feel. I had a heavy solid wood longboard that would plow thru ugly wind chop better than other boards.

Anyway, it’s probably not the board at fault for missing waves. Id look at paddling, positioning on the board and in the water, your pop up technique (arch up/stand up/eyes always up), timing and surf conditions. As for going down the line on a steep wall, fat rails arent going to let that happen regardless of fins, but id try to get down the line quicker and sty ahead of the pocket so isnt so walled up.

[waikikikichan]

How can I improve my experience with this board? Maybe harder fins but more vertical, with less rake?

Think along the lines of a race car. Where the "rubber meets the road". What good is the stickiest rubber compound if the tire is flying up in the air, not hugging the ground ? You also need a good suspension set up.

You need to be pushing / shoving the fin(s) into the wave. You can't do that if you are too much in the middle / center of the board pressuring the widest point, which levers out the tail and pulls the fins out of the water.
You need your knees to act as suspension, to compress and rebound.
You can't force a square peg in a round hole. Sometimes you need the chassis to settle down before cranking it over the other way.

Here is a surfer at a typhoon swell steep beach break wave on a Wavestorm Costco sponge board with screw in plastic fins.
Notice where his back foot is. Notice how he is on the knife edge of the tail/rail.
You don't need to change the fin, you need to utilize it more correctly. Stop throwing money at a problem, adjust the rider (which is free).

[marconda]

@ Geezer, thanks a lot for your reply. Everything you wrote makes absolutely sense to me. And although 90% of the time it’s certainly my own fault (poor technique, hesitation, exhaustion, etc.), I really believe that this board doesn’t allow me to angle and stay high on the wall. Yes, two sessions ago I was the only one surfing, I caught a couple of decent ones in the beginning, then I got tired and frustrated. Decent meaning dropping basically straight and then turning, but finding myself always in white water after the turn. Frustration grew because no matter what I do I can only drop straight. A few days before, conditions were better and I could ride some green sections, but still after dropping more or less straight. That’s my problem, especially since waves are so short here, just a few seconds.

@ waikikikichan, thank you, that’s what I tried yesterday and I had some results (shifting weight backwards, getting rid of central fin). Although in the pictures you posted, well… in the first one the wall is not really steep, and in the second one you can tell that he’s already lost grip, the board is not holding and in the next frame it would be going substantially more towards the beach

[marconda]

This is the board I learned on, with the fin I installed. Notice how sharp the rails are, they basically form a 90 degree angle; those junctions along the sides, where the deck meets the hull, also help, I believe. And because it’s so heavy, it cuts easily through the chop, like Geezer said (plus its inertia keeps it going on flat sections).

I never dared to use it in bigger waves though, it’s too dangerous (that’s why I finally decided to get the foamie), however with a kayak-style paddle you can catch big unbroken swells and get it going, which is also fun.

[waikikikichan]

and in the second one you can tell that he’s already lost grip, the board is not holding and in the next frame it would be going substantially more towards the beach

I would say that he is holding in nice and tight. If what you see is that he is sliding out, then I guess I won't be able to help you or change your mind about board / fins.

Okay maybe, you need more than two frames of photos to convince you.

Riding a sponge board has its pluses and minuses. Because of their overly boxy rails, sometimes the rail washes out. Because of the flex, it doesn't respond exactly like a hard board. But if you learn to work with the flex and time it right, the flex can reward you and forgive you when a hard board would punish you.

[marconda]

I would say that he is holding in nice and tight. If what you see is that he is sliding out, then I guess I won't be able to help you or change your mind about board / fins.

No, no, maybe you're right. I personally can’t imagine being on a board, trimming, while the board leans towards the outside rail, but maybe I’m wrong or it was just a moment, a small adjustment. This is what I mean:



In general I think you’re right and I certainly will try and practice more what you suggest — which is to say shift the weight back and pivot more on the fins. So thanks again.

It’s hard for me to get the timing right, since first you need to have your weight forward to catch the wave and then suddenly shift it back as you pop up and turn. Sometimes, I guess, conditions and equipment make it simply impossible, like Geezer said. Or at least impossible for somebody who’s learning.

That’s how it looked today, what do you reckon?

[waikikikichan]

That’s how it looked today, what do you reckon?

I reckon there is a reason why there's no one out surfing, either on a Softboard or Hardboard. Either on a Shortboard or Longboard.
The conditions dictate that it is just not rideable for ANY type of board or level of surfer.

[marconda]

Ok, but could you help me understand why it’s non ridable? I mean I agree, I just want to understand better. Too messy? No predictable peaks? Open walls are too short and unpredictable? Period too short? Too fast? Always closing out? Too windy? All of the above?

Thanks a lot for watching and for your advice!

[oldmansurfer]

I could find some waves to ride there

[waikikikichan]

Ok, but could you help me understand why it’s non ridable? I mean I agree, I just want to understand better. Too messy? No predictable peaks? Open walls are too short and unpredictable? Period too short? Too fast? Always closing out? Too windy? All of the above?

All of the above, plus the wind you can hear on the video, makes it hard to even carry your board to the water. What you can't see in the video is the RIP and the CURRENT ( that may or may not be there ) which will pull you away from rideable peaks.

[marconda]

All of the above, plus the wind you can hear on the video, makes it hard to even carry your board to the water. What you can't see in the video is the RIP and the CURRENT ( that may or may not be there ) which will pull you away from rideable peaks.

Yeah absolutely! in the session that i keep referring to as frustrating, the wind alone kept me moving from the spot, i burnt so much energy just to keep my ground.

And yes, you’re completely right, usually in the situation of the video, between the first and second break (which I can identify in that mess cos I’ve been on that beach since i was 6 months old, don’t know if you can) the current gets so strong that it’s absolutely pointless to paddle against it: you have to go in, walk on the beach and go back out. Real pita. But no rip currents luckily.

[Geezer]

Yep……for conditions like those I’d get a……


…..skateboard.