Struggling with bigger waves

[waikikikichan]

Tried moving forward and back still have the same issue. If I go any further forward I'm pretty much paddling the nose into the water.

And what is wrong with that ? That is what you need to have happen. The nose DOES go a bit under the water most of the time. If you keep it a bit out of the water, in a split second it will be WAY OUT of the water as the wave steepens. You need to have the nose pointed down. You need to trust that as the wave steepens up, that the nose will “pop” out again.
Confidence - Commitment ( with skills to back that up )

Question: how many strokes are you taking ? 5 strokes ? 10 strokes ? More ?

[dtc]

The board I'm riding now is this

http://slideandglidesurf.co.uk/product/ ... urf-board/

I ride a 6'10x 22 that is no longer availible according to that.

The kind of board I was thinking is this

https://www.boardshop.co.uk/mark-phipps ... range-rail

Was thinking maybe as it's thinner I may not lose the paddle power I have but not so much volume to suck me up (If that is even what's happening.)

your current board isnt the best for these bigger waves; its not terrible but certainly there are boards that will make it easier.

that Mark Phipps board looks pretty good but...going from a 22 wide board to a 20 3/4 wide board will be noticeable. Not that 20 3/4 is ridiculous but it will take you a while to get used to it, certainly not a something you want to try out for the first time in larger waves! If you could find a similar board with 21 1/2 width it may be an easier transition. The Channel island M13 is a 'classic' (if you can find one) . You could even look at the Torq mod-fun as a cheapish option. However, if you wanted to take the plunge then the Mark Phipps board might work out.

[Millsy82]

Tried moving forward and back still have the same issue. If I go any further forward I'm pretty much paddling the nose into the water.

And what is wrong with that ? That is what you need to have happen. The nose DOES go a bit under the water most of the time. If you keep it a bit out of the water, in a split second it will be WAY OUT of the water as the wave steepens. You need to have the nose pointed down. You need to trust that as the wave steepens up, that the nose will “pop” out again.
Confidence - Commitment ( with skills to back that up )

Question: how many strokes are you taking ? 5 strokes ? 10 strokes ? More ?

Even when I'm paddling on flat water the nose goes under so in effect I'm just paddling a snow plough. If I arch my back any further it will probably snap lol.

My strokes I try to get 5/6 good powerful deep strokes in before the wave gets to me a couple more push my head to the board to try and force it down the wave then pop up.

[Millsy82]

There is a simple answer, COMMIT, you need to match the speed of the wave, too slow your nose will be pushed down because the tail is being lifted by the faster wave. You can angle your take off as needed but use your speedy pop up skills to push your board down into the wave.
The angle helps, too much angle your tail will beat you to the bottom.
Remember I feel the need for speed, he who hesitates is pearling!

Maybe I'm not 100% committing I feel like I am really going for it but maybe something in the back of my mind is stopping me. I angle my take offs more on smaller waves on the bigger waves have found that I can't angle them as much as I fall off the back.

[Millsy82]

Well my flat no rocker high volume board does just fine on steep waves

But would a bit more rocker give you that little helping hand?

I get your point about being able to do it all on one board and that is the ultimate goal to be good enough to do just that.

However what is the harm in having a helping hand to get to that point after all that is why beginners are told to learn on bigger boards to help them progress.

The reason I changed to this board was I couldn't get my head around moving back and forward on a longboard to be able to increase speed then back to turn, although I could catch waves on a shortboard I would do an out of control bottom turn and either fly over the back in spectacular style or fall backwards doing my bottom turn. So I ended up in the middle with this board that meant I could concentrate more on learning my turns without the need to move 3-4 ft up and down the board. So in a way it was bought to help bring my skills on which it has and it's just been the last week or so I've struggled because of waves were not used to may get them 2/3 times a year.

Ideally I don't want to change my board I like it but if having a second board may make it that little bit easier to learn this next step then I'm all for it.

[waikikikichan]

If I arch my back any further it will probably snap lol.

before the wave gets to me a couple more push my head to the board to try and force it down the wave then pop up.

What I see is a lot of extra wasted energy/effort. Bobbing Yo-Yo movement going up and down of the head and torso. First arched way back then head shoved down. Keep the body quiet, only the shoulders out should be engaged. All you energy should be used to go forward.

If you have a problem, my advice is to look BACK two steps. So if you’re having problems taking off on bigger steeper waves, look at your paddle and positioning.

You said you couldn’t get you head around moving back and forth on a longboard. So you tried to remedy that by getting a mid-length. So even when you can make the drop you still can’t stabilize on the bottom turn. All the problems I see is just a bad domino effect of not learning the basics first on a longer board.

[oldmansurfer]

Old Man, this thread isn't about you. My first post wasn't in reference to you. I'm just trying to help out Millsy82.

Well you certainly referenced me in that last bit.

[surferbee]

https://barefootsurftravel.com/livemore-magazine/top-15-game-changing-tips-intermediate-surfers
This is a good guide echoing many of the same points above, but you can also click some of the more detailed sub-guides linked in the article including: board choice, catching better waves, paddling technique, and more. Maybe it's helpful for you?

[oldmansurfer]

Well my flat no rocker high volume board does just fine on steep waves

But would a bit more rocker give you that little helping hand?

I get your point about being able to do it all on one board and that is the ultimate goal to be good enough to do just that.

However what is the harm in having a helping hand to get to that point after all that is why beginners are told to learn on bigger boards to help them progress.

The reason I changed to this board was I couldn't get my head around moving back and forward on a longboard to be able to increase speed then back to turn, although I could catch waves on a shortboard I would do an out of control bottom turn and either fly over the back in spectacular style or fall backwards doing my bottom turn. So I ended up in the middle with this board that meant I could concentrate more on learning my turns without the need to move 3-4 ft up and down the board. So in a way it was bought to help bring my skills on which it has and it's just been the last week or so I've struggled because of waves were not used to may get them 2/3 times a year.

Ideally I don't want to change my board I like it but if having a second board may make it that little bit easier to learn this next step then I'm all for it.

Fortunately for me all my boards were custom made for me except the longboard I restarted learning to surf on. The longboard had a lot of tail rocker. Tail rocker helps but once you learn how to take steep drops on a longboard anything else will be easier. Tail rocker makes the board slower but helps to keep the nose up and making turns is easier. Tail rocker essentially shortens the board makes it handle like a shorter board (rocker in general does that). So you might want to get a bigger board with tail rocker for the same paddling etc as the board you currently have. My 7'6" board has less tail and nose rocker than my 9'6" longboard which makes it really fast and it has lots of flotation, it's a cork, so it is really good in small weak waves but it's also good on bigger fast waves it's a very fast board. But as far as paddling I have to be in the right place or it's difficult and that right place is a matter of more than an inch off makes it really difficult. Took me a while to find that right place but it is more forward than it would seem. I have a 7' egg board that has a continuous rocker from the nose to the tail. It is very easy to paddle and turn partly because it has a narrower tail but has a wide nose which helps in catching waves however it is more difficult to catch waves with. It is the absolute bomb for making late takeoffs but then if I want to ride it much I need to do late takeoffs because it won't catch waves easily other than late takeoffs. There are pluses and minuses to each design but you can learn to use any of them given time and motivation. The first custom made board I bought was 8 foot long and had really good tail rocker. I told the shaper I wanted a board that wasn't going to pearl as much as my longboard yet in reality I rarely pearled on my longboard but I did worry about it a lot. I had apparently developed skills to keep from pearling and the situations where the longboard pearled which was basically when the board was vertical and it lost contact with the wave as in air dropping and all my other boards also pearl in that situation including the 8 foot board with lots of rocker in the nose and tail.

[Millsy82]

You said you couldn’t get you head around moving back and forth on a longboard. So you tried to remedy that by getting a mid-length. So even when you can make the drop you still can’t stabilize on the bottom turn. All the problems I see is just a bad domino effect of not learning the basics first on a longer board.

I struggled with bottom turns on my 6'6 Not on my 6'10 I can do bottom turns, top turns, gain speed. What I can't do is walk up a board then walk back.

I know I'm not the best surfer in the world but even I know not being able to walk up and down a board is NOT going to stop me from catching a wave.

To be fair I wish I hadn't asked now I will just go back to going out trial and error.

[BoMan]

I always thought my paddling was strong until this recent spell of decent waves which has knocked me back. I appreciate that people paddle into massive waves on huge boards and I should imagine if I took a longboard out I would probably be able to catch these. I don't like turtle rolling and trying to get out and until this recent spell I've loved my board.

There's nothing wrong with adding a longboard to your quiver to have more fun. I have a battleship for summer ripples and a 5" nose rockered board for the winter. A good ride is way more important to me than an easy paddle out.

You could borrow one of Old Man Surfer's boards.

boards.jpg (78.18 KiB) Viewed 1196 times

[waikikikichan]

I don’t see why you feel sorry for asking ? It’s a genuine question and something you needed advice on. You might have thought you would get more input on board size, dimensions, rocket and float, but got more on you yourself. Nothing wrong with that.
As for trial and error, have you ever said to yourself “ I wish someone had told me this, before I did it “. That’s what you did by posted on this forum, getting input from those who’ve gone thru similar problems as your having right now. You’ll get passed this.

[oldmansurfer]

You might get a custom made board. Find a local shaper and tell the shaper where you surf and what you can do surfing and what you want to do and see if they can make a better board for you. I have all those boards in BoMans post 2 SUPs a long board a shortboard(actually my wife's board) and 4 funboards and a big wave gun which I have never ridden because it's brand new. I only use one board at a time. So if I am going to use a board I use only it repeatedly, I don't change boards due to the conditions because I want to get the instincts developed for that particular board so when I am in a critical place on a wave and it requires me to instantly react then I will react as if I am using the board I am using rather than the one I used last week. It takes me about 3 weeks to get used to a board and I want to learn to surf as fast as possible so I don't switch boards much. People get injured by going into bigger more dangerous surf with a board they are unfamiliar with. I still like the 8 foot custom made funboard I got originally and was using it till I dinged it. Choosing a board that is going to help you surf is a difficult thing. It depends on your skills and the waves you surf as well that's why a custom board might be the thing to do.

[alex_k]

I'm an beginner/intermediate surfer who has been working on similar skills over the last six months.

My experience is that angling correctly (a lot, fully pointed where you want to go) and looking down the line are essential. These are fundamentals and easy in waist high rollers. But when I was near my limits in size, I would look at the trough over the nose out of fear and think "yikes yikes yikes this is big" then end up pointed too straight. I'd either fall on the drop or fail to set the rail for a good bottom turn and end up in the whitewash. I had to remind myself to use the fundamentals properly. Also (it's been said but) if your weight is more centered on a bigger board, move back a little to get your weight onto the tail when you pop up and dig it into the wave face, and paddle fast.

Don't know if our experiences in the water are the same, but hope that helps. Good luck and happy surfing!

[LostAtSea]

I also ride a board that is pretty flat and high volume. I will slide off the back of most waves if I don't get in at the critical spot - my board doesn't glide like a longboard. I need to catch all waves, bigger ones too, right where the wave breaks - no being meek and trying to get in mellow on the shoulder or early. Get in where the wave is just about to break. Angle the board, don't start paddling too early, paddle hard right before the waves gets to you, and commit (this is YOUR wave, you ARE going to catch it) and pop fast (UP NOW) and smooth right into a bottom turn. If it's a big wave, try to wait for a second or two before you crank into the turn. Hesitate and you eat it, and it wears on your confidence. Don't take any crap from any stinkin' waves. Own them.

[mg100]

Some nice advise there from wakiki.
I went through the same, and still do if ihave been out of the water for a week.
For me moving forward on the board helped immensely.
Also I tell myself to be a banana when paddling, feet legs up, back arched and balanced so the board glides through the water better, my spine is not the most flexible but just telling myself this when paddling does seem to help me a lot, I have learnt that a solid paddle reaching forward as far as possible, almost twisting to reach further is always better than the frantic paddle as hard as you can style.
About a year ago I was getting very annoyed the bigger waves passing me by but one day it just clicked and you think why was it so difficult in the first place.

[mrleeson660]

Hi mate

I would say if you can kick on that board you are too far back I'd say.

Biggest thing that helped me get into waves that a lot of tutorials / vids etc seem to miss out is the weight shift just before the pop up. Literally transformed my wave count when I got it.

When paddling get forward on the board to the point that when your back is arched (uncomfortable almost for me) the nose is just skimming the water. When the wave approaches start paddling, then as it gets right behind you paddle hard and strong as you would normally. But as you feel the wave lifting you up transfer your weight forward by pressing hard into the board with your chest (timing is key). Do a few more strong paddles in that position then once your in, depending on how steep / fast it is, you can either arch back again for a sec to make pop up easier / smoother or just bang it straight to your feet in one motion. Also try and fully attack it, no hesitation, no doubt just full beans. Combined that with weight shift I went from missing most waves to getting most waves.

Might not work for you but did for me

[steveylang]

What happens when you go for those late take-offs? Do you make them, don't make them, hesitate and then don't make them, etc.?

I'm not surfing waves quite as big as you yet, but am starting to have fun charging for waves a little smaller (fast 4'+ beach break.) I learned a lot from this video-

Forgetting about the upper half of the wave face, keeping in mind that the waves you don't think you're going to make are gonna be some of your best rides ever, and not hesitating after you decide to go, are what I try to keep in mind. That and getting my rear foot down as soon as possible to set a good line. I'm on a smaller board at 6'6" so it's a little easier to fit in but I've pearled too, I think whatever board you're on you always have to adjust to the wave and your board to make it work. A shorter board lets you fit into the curl better, a longer board lets you paddle in a little earlier.

I think it's also better to try charging in smaller conditions where you're not too worried about your safety. If you have a shorter board then you can take that out in smaller conditions to force yourself to get accustomed to later take-offs, then when it's bigger you can use the bigger board or whatever feels better.

People have broken necks in bigger waves where I am so I'm not ready to go out in 5-6'. At 3' it's fast and fun, at 4' its faster and just as fun but you start being more careful and selective (a lot of closeouts.)

[jasedrummer]

Hi,

I used to have this problem catching bigger waves. I lost my confidence a couple of years after starting after a couple of bad wipeouts involving cuts and stitches.

Years later I’m certainly no expert surfer at all, but I have caught and ridden 6-7ft waves.

In my own experience it came down to confidence and most definitely commitment.
Start in smaller waves, perfect your pop up so you do it naturally without having to think about it - even when I was out today in tiny conditions I was practicing paddling, catching and getting my hands back to my ribs quick so I could get up before the wave closed out.
Build up to bigger waves gradually - easy to say I know as you can’t control the conditions.
What’s you definition of big waves? For years I thought 4-5ft was plenty big enough.
I also surfed breaks that had other surfers there but were spaced out enough that I could find my own wave but also was far enough away that I didn’t feel I was being watched or judged - you will miss waves or pearl - you just need to suck it up and learn from that.
Take your time and get into the right position- start out further than you think you need to be to start paddling. When you do start paddling, paddle like your life is on the line, like there’s a great white behind you and believe you will be able pop up perfectly- don’t hesitate, if you’re already thinking I can’t catch this you have already lost.
If you miss, you miss - if you pearl just make sure you get your hands over your head on resurfacing. I bought myself an FCS freedom leash - it is great for having no spring tension so when I do wipeout my board doesn’t ever come flying back to me anymore.
When you do catch that big wave, whatever size you are aiming at you will be wondering what all the fuss was - and you WILL catch them. don’t be too hard on yourself right now and keep having fun with it.