Can't set a line

[2milkshakes1straw]

Hello everyone,

I've been surfing 4-5 foot waves on a 7-foot fish and can sometimes (20% of the time) go down the line at the break (a left), but more often than not I drop in and end up way too far out in the flats to make a good bottom turn to get back onto the wave. All I want to do right now is just cruise down the line, don't even want to cut a big bottom turn and get back on because I have had three knee surgeries and just want to keep things mellow.

I am angling my takeoff a good bit and looking down the line (this was huge for me), but for some reason I usually end up off the wave. Should I pop more directly into a turn, with weight a little on my heels? Try to touch the wave with my front hand? Pop earlier or later? Change the weight distribution? Please help because I am so close to being comfortable with this but just can't figure out where I'm going wrong. When it goes right I'm stoked, but feel like I didn't do anyting different. Thank you!

[oldmansurfer]

It sounds to me like you need a longboard with a nice long rail. Surfing is what it is and you want to not bottom turn so get a bigger board avoid riding waves that require a bottom turn or get used to not being able to do what you want on every wave. How did you end up on a fish?

[BoMan]

I am angling my takeoff a good bit and looking down the line (this was huge for me), but for some reason I usually end up off the wave. Should I pop more directly into a turn, with weight a little on my heels? Try to touch the wave with my front hand? Pop earlier or later? Change the weight distribution?

As you angle the takeoff, make sure you weight the inside rail of your surfboard. This will sink it into the wave and set your line. If you are riding front side you'll do this with your toes and when going back side you will use the heels. Watch the iSURFTRIBE video for more info.

[2milkshakes1straw]

It sounds to me like you need a longboard with a nice long rail. Surfing is what it is and you want to not bottom turn so get a bigger board avoid riding waves that require a bottom turn or get used to not being able to do what you want on every wave. How did you end up on a fish?

I would definitely consider a new board if it was keeping me from just cruising around. I originally learned to pop up and stuff on a longboard, but I wanted to transition to something smaller (pre-knee surgeries) and thought the fish would be a good move. I see other people go down the line easily on these waves so I figured it was my technique. Here's a picture on a littler wave that kinda shows what happens. Basically I feel like I'm turning back towards the wave but I just go way out into the flats and if I ever make it back, the wave is dead.

[waikikikichan]

I drop in and end up way too far out in the flats to make a good bottom turn to get back onto the wave. All I want to do right now is just cruise down the line, don't even want to cut a big bottom turn and get back on because I have had three knee surgeries and just want to keep things mellow.

But that's the way it is. You have to go from paddling pointed To the beach, then to riding Parallel across of the beach. The transition between those two is what's got you stumped. Going back side, it's not so much about knees, but your heels and butt. But again, where you look is where you go. You probably looking to the flats, you need to look down the line before your feet even plant.

I am angling my takeoff a good bit and looking down the line (this was huge for me), but for some reason I usually end up off the wave. Should I pop more directly into a turn, with weight a little on my heels? Try to touch the wave with my front hand? Pop earlier or later? Change the weight distribution?

Stop trying to conform to rigid dance steps. Every wave is different, so you have to adjust your approach EVERY single time. Sometimes more heel, sometimes more chest, sometimes lean forward, etc.
But looks like you need an extra hand ............... literally. Drag your front hand if you want to, but with your back hand, grab the outside rail and yank up on it ( smoothly, no abruptly ). This should aid in setting the rail and lowering your center gravity. Just remember you can't keep yanking up on it, sooner or later you have to reset the rail and let the board run/trim.

wrong wave and board, but you get the point of the grab rail.

[waikikikichan]

Here's a picture on a littler wave that kinda shows what happens.

If that is what you look like going backside, you have a myriad of problems to work on.

[2milkshakes1straw]

I am angling my takeoff a good bit and looking down the line (this was huge for me), but for some reason I usually end up off the wave. Should I pop more directly into a turn, with weight a little on my heels? Try to touch the wave with my front hand? Pop earlier or later? Change the weight distribution?

As you angle the takeoff, make sure you weight the inside rail of your surfboard. This will sink it into the wave and set your line. If you are riding front side you'll do this with your toes and when going back side you will use the heels. Watch the iSURFTRIBE video for more info.

BoMan, this is a great video, cheers. I honestly had always figured if I leaned during paddling or popping up I would just eat it. So a slight lean, then pop and land knees bent with a little weight on that edge? Maybe that's what everyone else has been doing and I just never made the realization. The times it did go right could just be dumb luck in that I landed a little on the heel side of the board or something. Definitely going to experiment with this the next time out!

[2milkshakes1straw]

Here's a picture on a littler wave that kinda shows what happens.

If that is what you look like going backside, you have a myriad of problems to work on.

That is me Where should I start?

By the way, a forum search earlier led me to your blog and the "Going down the line" post. Great site and an amazing resource! I look forward to going through the archives.

Edit: Just saw your post above. Will definitely try grabbing the rail. Had never considered it or even really knew why people did that.

[waikikikichan]

That is me Where should I start?

If you are happy with your surfing, then it's all fine. But if you want problems pointed out, here are some. There is a cause and effect, but I wont get into that.

First of, Line looks good, so I don't see the "going into the flats" problem you posted about. Eyes looking up and out looks good .......... but......

Your front arm lock down and to the hip makes your left shoulder block your chin/neck from twisting more. Less you can look, less you can turn. Your shoulder is showing "right" when you want to go left. The position looks like you about to throw a frisbee, but don't. Open up the chest, let the front arm lead, Throw the frisbee !!

Because the arm is locked, and restricting the waist from twisting, your wrist is unconsciously trying to turn and point the way. ( like when when we used to lean and spin the controller on nintendo, even through it had no real effect )

[waikikikichan]

aa2milk550845_10151828097285008_1462831300_n copy 4.jpg (25.21 KiB) Viewed 1887 times

Your back hand should be in front and across your chest. But here it is bracing against an invisible wall. ( like when you walking out on the window sill of a skyscraper ). It is being used more for balance. It should be used for steering or drive.

aa2milk550845_10151828097285008_1462831300_n copy 5.jpg (32.98 KiB) Viewed 1887 times

Your Butt sticks way out, so your Head has to counter by sticking way out the other way. It cuts out the mobility of the waist to twist ( and legs to rotate too ).

Your front foot is at 3 o'clock. It should be more at 1-2 o'clock. The closed stance again blocks the twist. Also by opening the front foot more, it "gives" power to the back foot.

Your position is too far forward. You turn a surfboard off the fins, the fins are at the back. You also turn off the rail not the flat bottom of the board. A surf board turns more like a GP motorbike. Turn and Lean together. You are mainly just leaning ( with your butt ).

**note** Grab Rail won't work / not needed on a wave of this size.

[dtc]

As a starting point, looking at your photo you want to turn left but your entire body (other than your head) is set up to turn right. Arms pointed right, hips pointed straight/right, body weight over right rail, head looking left but over right rail. Basically you won’t be turning left no matter how hard you wish it to happen

Basic first tip - point your front hand where you want to go and look at where you want to go. You need both. At first literally stick your index finger out and point (it feels kooky but it works and so suddenly becomes worthwhile!). Don’t just point with your wrist or by twisting your shoulder - keep a firm upper arm (Chest to upper arm is more or less a straight line) and let your upper body twist around. This will bring your hips around as well

Try it on land a few times - in surfing stance, twist around.

You will also need to weight your back foot more.

And start turning earlier ...

Btw, front arm can go down and you pivot around, or you can throw your front arm up; the latter is my preference (it also tends to help back foot weighting). See

http://www.surfline.com/community/whokn ... fm?id=1117

And this is also a really good read

https://kookbitches.com/2016/09/01/bein ... trocities/

Again, try it on land a few times and do some variations even ones that are wrong (bend arm, arm up, arm down etc) and feel the differences.

Edit: ha. What waikikichan said!

[2milkshakes1straw]

aa2milk550845_10151828097285008_1462831300_n copy 4.jpg

Your back hand should be in front and across your chest. But here it is bracing against an invisible wall. ( like when you walking out on the window sill of a skyscraper ). It is being used more for balance. It should be used for steering or drive.

aa2milk550845_10151828097285008_1462831300_n copy 5.jpg

Your Butt sticks way out, so your Head has to counter by sticking way out the other way. It cuts out the mobility of the waist to twist ( and legs to rotate too ).

aa2milk550845_10151828097285008_1462831300_n copy 6.jpg

Your front foot is at 3 o'clock. It should be more at 1-2 o'clock. The closed stance again blocks the twist. Also by opening the front foot more, it "gives" power to the back foot.

Your position is too far forward. You turn a surfboard off the fins, the fins are at the back. You also turn off the rail not the flat bottom of the board. A surf board turns more like a GP motorbike. Turn and Lean together. You are mainly just leaning ( with your butt ).

**note** Grab Rail won't work / not needed on a wave of this size.

This is going to sound goofy, but when I recognized your name from your website I honestly thought to myself "Oh man it'd be cool if he drew the lines on my picture like on his site" and then lo and behold it happened. Thank you.

I am starting to see that I really didn't have the concept of turning down (on the rail, chest open to the direction I want to go, weight farther back, etc.), but now I have a much better overview of what goes on. A lot of factors at play, and I had a lot of big ones totally misinterpreted. Cheers!

[2milkshakes1straw]

As a starting point, looking at your photo you want to turn left but your entire body (other than your head) is set up to turn right. Arms pointed right, hips pointed straight/right, body weight over right rail, head looking left but over right rail. Basically you won’t be turning left no matter how hard you wish it to happen

Basic first tip - point your front hand where you want to go and look at where you want to go. You need both. At first literally stick your index finger out and point (it feels kooky but it works and so suddenly becomes worthwhile!). Don’t just point with your wrist or by twisting your shoulder - keep a firm upper arm (Chest to upper arm is more or less a straight line) and let your upper body twist around. This will bring your hips around as well

Try it on land a few times - in surfing stance, twist around.

You will also need to weight your back foot more.

And start turning earlier ...

Btw, front arm can go down and you pivot around, or you can throw your front arm up; the latter is my preference (it also tends to help back foot weighting). See

http://www.surfline.com/community/whokn ... fm?id=1117

And this is also a really good read

https://kookbitches.com/2016/09/01/bein ... trocities/

Again, try it on land a few times and do some variations even ones that are wrong (bend arm, arm up, arm down etc) and feel the differences.

Edit: ha. What waikikichan said!

Cheers, boss. Yeah, you two guys nailed it. Will definitely try pointing out to where I want to go, and the articles are great. That site name killed me.

[oldmansurfer]

Yeah man consider yourself lucky. You got Waikikichanalyzed

[dtc]

One final comment - it’s impossible to tell from a photo, but given your stance I’m wondering if you are suffering from ‘if I stay still I won’t fall’ syndrome. This is incredibly common so don’t feel bad! Basically people pop up and it feels unstable and a bit weird, so they think (unconsciously) ‘if I stay very very still then I won’t lose my balance’.

Which may well be correct but it also means you essentially just go straight. It’s ‘just’ a matter of relaxing your knees and core - let them move around to match the wave and what you need to do. If you ski or skateboard or even play tennis, you might have experience of stiffening up your body because you are so focused on getting one thing right that you forget to let the rest of your body do it’s thing

Anyway it won’t sort itself out overnight but keep up the stoke and optimism and it won’t be too long until you are ‘throwing buckets of spray’

[2milkshakes1straw]

One final comment - it’s impossible to tell from a photo, but given your stance I’m wondering if you are suffering from ‘if I stay still I won’t fall’ syndrome. This is incredibly common so don’t feel bad! Basically people pop up and it feels unstable and a bit weird, so they think (unconsciously) ‘if I stay very very still then I won’t lose my balance’.

Which may well be correct but it also means you essentially just go straight. It’s ‘just’ a matter of relaxing your knees and core - let them move around to match the wave and what you need to do. If you ski or skateboard or even play tennis, you might have experience of stiffening up your body because you are so focused on getting one thing right that you forget to let the rest of your body do it’s thing

Anyway it won’t sort itself out overnight but keep up the stoke and optimism and it won’t be too long until you are ‘throwing buckets of spray’

You know, I think i might be doing this. Kind of like a "holy cow, i'm up! Don't screw it up now!" I am gonna try to get someone to film me and see what's going on. Thanks!

[dtc]

Videoing is both the best and worst thing to do. Best because its by far the best way to improve your surfing. Nothing else is comparable

Worst because you suddenly realise you look less like Kelly slater and more like a zombie with extra stiff joints...

[2milkshakes1straw]

FOLLOW UP:

Hi everyone, I went out this morning and the conditions were really choppy. The report said 4-7 feet, and the wind was making things really squirrely. I had a little mantra in my head to remind myself what to focus on today, which was "Look, lean, point, back (as in weight back)". Look, lean, point, back.

First wave I went for, I dropped in and shot right back out the top. Probably looked hilarious, like I remembered I'd left the oven on or something and pulled a U-turn, but I was stoked because that had never happened before and was the exact opposite of my problem. Next five or so waves I really focused on throwing the frisbee and, what do you know, I was surfing right down the line, just kinda swerving up and down the face.

I have a LOT to work on (frontside!), but all of your tips were tremendously helpful and I wanted to say thank you!

[jaffa1949]

Nice, thank you for the thank you!

[dtc]

First wave I went for, I dropped in and shot right back out the top. !

that made me laugh. Although I've heard surf coaches say that one good way to learn bottom turns is to do exactly what you did - drop down and do the sharpest bottom turn you can. If that takes you over the back (because you may not be up to top turns yet), then so be it. The point is not to surf the longest, but to get that bottom turn working. Of course, its a hard thing to practice because it feeling like you are wasting the wave. But its suggested you do this for (say) 5 waves or 20 minutes - maybe do it at a secondary or close out break that no one else is surfing and power through waves every minute - then relax and go surfing.

In any case, well done

waikikichan for the win again!

(I think you may have inspired his most recent blog post as well http://alohaki.jugem.jp/