Surfing whitewater

[captainlk]

I am a relative beginner and recently went from riding 9ft long/foam boards to a 7ft10 mal epoxy board. After doing this I realised that I couldn't pop up very well anymore as my feet hang off the end of the board and the method I was using previously doesn't work. So I decided to go back to basics and learn to pop up again in the whitewater as the waves are relatively big here.

When doing this, it seemed that popping up in big white water is actually pretty difficult (whitewater from 4ft - 7ft waves) - it feels like I'm suddenly going at 100mph on the most unstable thing ever and the thought of trying to stand up just seems ridiculous. If I try to pop up as soon as some big whitewater hits me then I lose balance before I can get to my feet, all I can do it ride along on my stomach until things calm down then pop up.

So the question is, should I practise until I can pop up on largeish whitewater immediately without losing my balance?

[oldmansurfer]

I still fall when trying to popup while getting hit by the whitewater although my success rate is likely much higher than yours. The way I get hit by whitewater is when the wave breaks before I can popup so typically I don't have to deal with that because I am popping up before the wave breaks. My suggestion is to try to ride the unbroken part of the wave. Learn to paddle well enough that you can take off where there is no whitewater. Also maybe go back to the 9ft board because it will be easier to do with the longer board. Also learn how to do it right. There are numerous threads dedicated to popup problems, read them and practice popping up daily at home till it's automatic and then maybe keep it up if you aren't surfing every week. Don't let the wave catch you learn to catch the wave. If you want to still "catch whitewater" then learn to pop up quickly because it is a matter of timing, you need to popup between bounces so it has to be quick.

[dtc]

Catching white water still requires you to paddle hard, otherwise the water hits you suddenly and the board gets out of control, as you say. If you are padding, then the water hits you, the differential is much smaller and the loss of control is smaller.

Catching big whitewater is harder, in a way, than catching big waves, because on a wave you will already be up to speed before you catch it - if you aren't, you will miss the wave. Whereas for white water, if you aren't up to speed you will still be hit by the water and it will push you along with a sudden jolt. So waves have a sort of built in control - if the differential is too much, you miss the wave. Whitewater doesn't have that.

Given that you are practicing for pop up reasons, there is no advantage in popping up straight away. Wait until the board is 'under control' then pop up. However, don't just lay on the board until the water hits you - paddle hard, just like you are on a wave, before the water gets to you.

Also, because the white water is all broken up, the board is less able to 'grip' the wave (through its concaves/fins etc). So boards in whitewater are actually a bit less stable than on a wave - on a wave, boards are held to the solid water. That said, if you cant pop up in white water, then you may not be able to do it on a wave (where there are all different angles and all sorts of other things going on)

I'm surprised your feet hang over the back on a 7ft10 board. Are you sure you are far enough forward on the board when you lay down? I'm 6ft3 and on my 7ft4 board my feet are only just over the tail

You should be positioned on the board, roughly, so when you lay on it in flat water, the nose of the board is about 1inch above the water level (give or take a small amount). Often you are meant to be a lot more forward than you think - and, by the way, if you are nose diving its very rarely because you are too far forward, its almost certainly because you weren't paddling fast enough. So don't move back on the board thinking it will cure the nose diving (perling), because it actually makes things worse.

[waikikikichan]

When beginners learn in the white water, usually it's only knee-high, waist-high crumblers. I don't know of any school or beginner friendly breaks with shoulder-head high walls crashing down. No one rides huge whitewater well, not even Kelly Slater. Your asking in someway how to to ski AVALANCHES. Answer is you don't. You need to find clean peelers that have a shoulder to get to. Not turbulent exploding foamy unrideable energy.

[captainlk]

Great answers everyone, thanks a lot. You told me what I was hoping to hear. The swells looks big here for a while, so I'll either wait for it to calm down or go and practise again on the calmer whitewater, but then head out back.

dtc - my feet are only slightly off the traction pad. I'm 6ft 4 so am quite tall - I'll try moving forwards slightly and paddle harder to see what happens.

[dtc]

captain - if you are 6ft4 it might be that your feet do hang off the end; but check your positioning when laying on the board anyway just to make sure.

Although waikikichan disagrees with me on this, and may wish to chime in with a counter argument, my suggestion is to lay on the board in flat water and find the right body position (nose just out of the water by an inch or so) then draw a line across the board (in the wax) at eye level. Every time you hop on the board, you can use the line as an aid to position yourself right (eventually you will just 'know' by feel). Now, and this is an important point, the line is the starting point - there will be times when you need to move more forward or back, not by much, but maybe an inch or so. This will depend on the wind, the wave size, the wave steepness, the bumpiness of the surf and all those many other factors; and you can only figure it out through experience. Sometimes you will move forward but arch your back more, for example. But start with the line and at least you know you will be roughly where you should be, but adjust a little bit as needed.

Also it tells your mind that you are in the right place even when your body is saying 'too far forward move back' as you hurtle down the face just before popping up. Basically its a visual reminder that you are doing the right thing even though it may feel wrong. Lots of parts of surfing feels wrong, because its not really a natural activity.

At your skill level I often see people who are 6 or 12 inches too far back - my view is that, although drawing a line might mean you are not in exactly the right spot for the conditions, it does mean you aren't in totally the wrong spot.

[waikikikichan]

DTC - If a beginner wants to use line or marks to help in there positioning that is all fine. But most become "dependent" on that line. They "look" when they should feel. I agree in time they will develop feel for positioning, but habits are hard to break. ( I also believe a beginner learning on a shortboard will learn to surf "in time" )

I like to try many boards, it's fun to swap boards with friends. On any board I can find the sweet spot in a few paddles. Of course I feel the resistance of the paddle stroke and how the board glides, but I "LOOK" at how the the water wraps around the nose. My gaze is forward, chin up. Not down if I was looking at the deck. Laying on your board in the "proper position waiting for the wave is rare. Most surfers sit up on their board and when a wave comes they lay down and paddle. Beginners searching for the mark, will cause a pause and a body yo-yo effect. Ever say to some " paddle now!" Then they do the check, body yo-yo, paddle late, then gets flip over by the breaking wave.

If you really need to use marks, there is no need for wax ball, tape or paint. Just use the "free" mark that is already there on most modern boards. The board logo is usually just ahead of where the rider needs to be. Use that as a general area .

[pmcaero]

what about trying for some reformed waves, where you get a clean face with whitewater on top....this way you get the extra push, and the glide.

[captainlk]

Quick update from me on this. I never really managed any degree of stability with the whitewater, but it was enough to develop the pop up again so I could go out back and start going for unbroken waves.

The comment about moving further forward got me experimenting a bit and I found that moving slightly further forwards, and keeping my chest and shoulders down while paddling helped with speed and that was enough to get me catching waves again. Also I now really focus on keep the board level while paddling to avoid the rails digging in and slowing me down.

So that's progress. My current challenges are judging conditions at a sandbar beach break that just looks like chaos and getting better at turtling the board to be able to handle it when the waves are big.

[dtc]

Good stuff

I find that just as the wave catches up with me, its useful to move my head down rather than looking up (or, perhaps, no back arch). Just gives a little more impetus; although of course sometimes you have to arch up if the wave is too steep etc. But don't forget your head,

[benjl]

Hi Captainlk

As a recent grom myself, I used to struggle with the same problem although now barely ever find myself in that situation.
All of the above points would help ie. paddling hard and early, trying to find some un-broken wave to actually surf on, finding a better break position to catch re-form than just whitewash, positioning etc.

If however you are just stuck at a bad point and there is a wall of whitewash coming at you- my technique was to just hold off from trying to pop-up too quickly (when the wave is super turbulent and still jolting you around). I would stay on my stomach until just a fraction after this point when you feel that you have dropped down the whitewall face and then pop-up quickly, in a crouched stance to lower my centre of gravity.
Once up, I basically never bail off from this point and can ride it even on my shortboard. When i was just starting off I would always try to pop up too quckly when the wave was still jolting me around and no surprise, I came off almost every time and had the furstration you were probably feeling.

Perhaps give this a try in combination with the above? My personal experience anyway

Hope i helps