Technique or thruster?

[benjl]

I haven't been surfing a heck of a lot lately but brought this board about 3 months back to be me 'hybrid/fish performance go-to'. It's made to be a bit of a quiver killer due to the easy paddling but performance rounded-pin tail.
It's 6'0 x 20 x 2 3/8 and epoxy, not sure of volume but suspect about 33ish l.

I've taken it out several times now and just never felt at home on it, the first time I struggled to hold a line on the wave and even felt over the falls / pearled a couple of times which surprised me given my normal shortboard is 6'3 and I never have this problem on that.

I tried it again last weekend with a different (bigger and more drivey) set of quad fins thinking that this might help but this time the board just seemed to out run me and not turn. It was about head height and finally when I caught a good one, I went to do a bottom turn and came straight off the back of the board! It was like the board just wouldn't dig the rail to turn and just wanted to accelerate forwards. At the same time though, it didn't track or seem like the fins were too big for it- if anything, I felt like I needed to go up another size and get large fins (but I'm only 64kg).

I've never had this scenario occur. I'm debating to either get a back middle / thruster fin plug added to run it like that or I guess go bigger still in fins?

What are your guys thoughts? I've never really come off the back of a board before.
It's probably on the more buoyant size for my weight but I'm used to boards around this volume and size in these conditions.

[benjl]

There a little bit of rocket, not completely flat.

The manufacturer website also says to ride it about 5-8' shorter than your typical board but this would mean that I should ride it about 5'8 and about 26l which seems way to small

[waikikikichan]

Don't believe the hype. Quads, Grovellers, Fishes, EPS, Bigger fins and especially Volume calculators. This was suppose to be your "go to" board. On paper it was, but reality was different.

The post said "technique or thruster ?", but your board looks like it's not a 5er ( five fin set up ). So there's no putting in a nubster fin or making it a thruster. You made your bed ( bought it actually ), so now sleep in it. Don't go messing with putting in a center plug. Live with it. Learn how to surf a quad, work with it and the wave. Just as a single turns different than a thruster, same goes for quad. You force it and it'll fight back. In time you learn to appreciate the speed squirt that it gives.

I do however totally recommend you get a tail pad, so your back foot can lock in against the kick. Oh, you better shorten that leash rope too.

[Big H]

I'm 84kg and have an epoxy 6' x 20" x 2 9/16" (picture below)....it's 34lt and floats me fine in waves that are at least shoulder height.....I think that board is too much float for you in good waves ....I had a groveller that was 6' x 21" x 3" epoxy that had big fat rails and I had a similar issue....was like trying to surf an inflatable raft....sat really high in the water and was corky..... just felt wrong even to my inexperienced perceptions so I sold it....don't really see boards with dims like that and maybe that's why.....anyway, I'm sure the others have opinions but those observations are based on my personal experiences and think a board like that in good waves would suit a guy my size more than it would yours......

For what it's worth, the first time I tried to stand up on this when I set it up as a quad I did the splits....the board squirted out so quick my back foot was off the tail and in the water and ........OUCH!!!! :LOL: Anyway, I got that sorted, but it is a different feel than popping up on a thruster....just a little more slidey and faster......backside bottom turns are another story and I still suck at them so anyway I'm back just using it as a thruster until I improve all my skills......

[oldmansurfer]

I think often surfers are used to what they are used to and trying a new board that is different may seem like it doesn't work well but if you persisted at riding it you would be able to figure out how to use it. They figure the good boards are the ones they know how to use and the ones they don't know how to use aren't good boards....I don't know I don't try to switch boards much but when I do I know it's a mater of learning how to use it.

[drowningbitbybit]

It was like the board just wouldn't dig the rail to turn and just wanted to accelerate forwards.

...and that's exactly what a quad does. You've not got the centre fin to push against during the big carving bottom turn, so it just keeps on driving forward. You could try some larger fins, but it probably won't make all that much of a difference. As WKKK says - you'll just have to modify your technique for the board.

[benjl]

Thanks for the replys- I just want to clarify that i'm used to running quads (My other shortboard is a quad and my previous shortboard before this was a quad). I've NEVER had any issues running them as a quad and never had the same issue of not being able to turn it when bottom turning or adapting my surfing between a thruster or a quad.

My other 6'1 I ran as a quad and right from my first ever run on it I was catching waves and turning etc.

I also added a tail pad on it a few weeks back and before my last ride but that didn't make any difference.

It's just an odd feeling board, the pin tail doesnt feel like it bites in to the wave face at all compared with other round / pin tails i've had
I spoke to the shaper and he said that they normally running them as a 4 + 1 and recommend the 5 fin option but the previous owner must've just wanted the quad-only. They actually don't make it as a quad only anymore..Only thruster or 4 + 1. Perhaps why the hypto kypto only comes in a thruster as well as it doesn't need more speed
The shop said they could add in the thruster plug for about $80 nzd and that would help with the bottom turns etc and that this would probably only be best run as a quad for big 'island style' wally-waves.

Here's a link to the model:
http://www.primalsurf.co.nz/product/the-rockhopper/

I guess due to how freeken cold it is in the water at the moment, when the conditions do get nice I want to make the most out of it and don't want to be sitting there all frustrated on a board and waves that i'd otherwise be enjoying.
I swear someone mentioned something on here before about if you came off the back of the board when trying to turn then it was something to do with the fin size?

[drowningbitbybit]

Here's a link to the model:
http://www.primalsurf.co.nz/product/the-rockhopper/

"Skatey"... that's what that looks like to me. Not necessarily a bad thing, but won't do big carving bottom turns so well - it'll just slide out, either sideways if you're really pushing it, or forward if it's more of a gentle carve.

The outline appears very curved - I've got similar boards (as quads) and, yes, I find exactly the same thing. That board looks borderline groveller and certainly wouldn't be my choice for 6ft days. And I'm sure I wouldn't make the bottom turn on a 6ft day....

While the quad set up won't help, I think it's probably more of an all-round board issue.

[benjl]

[quote="Big H"]I'm 84kg and have an epoxy 6' x 20" x 2 9/16" (picture below)....it's 34lt and floats me fine in waves that are at least shoulder height.....I think that board is too much float for you in good waves ....

For what it's worth, the first time I tried to stand up on this when I set it up as a quad I did the splits....the board squirted out so quick my back foot was off the tail and in the water and ........OUCH!!!! :LOL: quote]

Hey Big H, out of curiosity, whats the bottom concave on your board like? Mostly single concave with slight flat exit tail?

[Big H]

Here's the specs from the website....this board feels as good from the first time out as the other felt bad....like OMS a said I probably could have learned to ride the one that didn't feel right, KS rides doors and coffe tables......

http://diversesurf.com.au/board-models- ... ng-mullet/

[Big H]

I do remember the one I got rid of had a big single concave to the tail...noticeable as it was really pronounced. Whatever the bottom shape is of the one I have is more subtle to be sure.

[benjl]

Thanks for the link- they look very similar aside from yours having a full length double concave which would help it turn a bit.
Mine is mostly single with a kind of flat exit tail so I think it needs some exagerated double or vee to help it go rail to rail a bit easier.

Probably doesn't help that i'm trying to figure out how to use it while its winter and I have gumby booties on! haha

[Tudeo]

I swear someone mentioned something on here before about if you came off the back of the board when trying to turn then it was something to do with the fin size?

I wrote here about a similar problem, I'm not sure u mean that story. With my 73kg I used an oversized 606 Dominator (45l), with a lot of volume in the back of the board. On waves from shoulder high I often got 'slingshot' prone or after a decent popup had problems getting the rail in on the backhand and fell backwards.
After that I got another board (Addvance) with even more volume (48l) but smaller and thinner tail, and I had no problem, actually I had the best surfs of my life.

I still love the Dominator and later want to try it out as a small wave board as a quad, I already bought the GXQ backfins that I want to use with PC7 sides.

[Lebowski]

As said above, grovelers often have a large amount of volume in the rear of the board to give speed in slop. This is coupled with low rocker and bit, fat rails which don't engage very much into the wave face. This makes a good board for fat waves and poor conditions, but in hollow decent waves they become a handful. The high volume tail means that at the point of taking off, the board is pointing steeply downhill causing a hairy takeoff. If you make the takeoff you have massive speed but when you go for a bottom turn the thick rails don't allow much engagement with the water, so you either spin out or fall off. I don't think it sounds like a fin issue personally.

[benjl]

Thanks Lebowksi, quite interesting to read and does make a lot of sense.

The reason I thought it was a fin issue is because my prior (small-med wave go to) was a 6'2 x 20 x 2 1/2 which was also quite flat and had even more boxy rails and volume.
It only came as a thruster and I never had any trouble turning that, in fact it turned so abruptly that I had to get fins with more base and arc to slow the turning radius so I could draw them out more!
It just seems strange that after nearly a year and a whole lot of experience later since buying that 6'2, I go to something which is smaller, lower volume, thinner and have a more 'bitey' / performance tail and I can't get it to dig in.
I've never had this problem on any board, even when I was total kook on my very flat 6'2 swallow tail fish I could turn it on the bottom of a head high wave (even as a quad).

[drowningbitbybit]

a more 'bitey' / performance tail and I can't get it to dig in... 6'2 swallow tail fish I could turn it

That board hasn't got a performance tail. If you look at how wide the board is where your foot is (which is where you're actually turning from - not the last few inches of the board), it's still a thick wide tail like you'd expect on a groveller. That tail - although they might call it a pin tail - is a compromise with the wide, rounded board...


...which is what the swallow tail does, but better. I'm not surprised that you found the swallow tail easier to turn. I've got a fat 5'10 with a very wide tail, which is fun in small skatey waves, but my 6'2 with a swallow tail (which, admittedly is also narrower, has more rocker, etc) is infinitely easier to spin around in a proper carve.

I think you're thinking about your board in the wrong way. Think of it as a groveller - take it out on a fat mushy day, the kind of day you'd debate whether it was worth even going out on a shortboard, and see how you go. It's moments like that when a groveller will come alive and be heaps of fun in marginal conditions.

[IB_Surfer]

Not to confuse things but what size fins you got on there? May I recommend F4's in front and 360 centers in back? Let me know what your set up is right now, you might be surprised, sometimes the future setups are for steep barrels but it slows the board down for a begginer.

[benjl]

Hey IB

I've tried a couple of variations- I had JJF techflex front fins with F4 (50/50 foiled) quads the first time. These were the set that I struggled to hold a line on the wave face with which was surprisingly given that the JJF fins as a thruster can hold in anything and the back quads fins on my other shortboard also never let m down as a quad and always felt nice.

The second ride I swapped both and tried some new Carbon stealth Shapers S5's with the matching 80/20 foiled quad trailing fins. I thought the inner foil of the S5's and 80/20 foil of the shapers rear fins might be better suited as the quad plugs were spaced close to the rail than on my other shortboard.

I didn't really get to try and high-'wally' lines with the second set up but as above, they didn't dig in for a bottom turn or seemed to have much pivot which is strange given the more up-right nature of the S5's.

The board also came with some large size S7 shapers quad fins which are way bigger than i'd ever nromalyl ride with but I might give those a try to see if the front fins will act as more of a pivot

[yumyumyellow]

Quads are fast and go rail to rail easy, but don't really turn easy. They have no real "centered" feeling that you get from having a center fin. I have noticed that when riding quads, you have to get your rear foot near the back of the fin cluster, weight it, and really make an effort to turn. Don't half ass it. You can't "trim" turns off your front foot at all with a quad. When you try to do that, the board just gets halfway on rail, you get off balance, and the board continues on without you. You have to be very deliberate and turn hard off your back foot.