Slave Abolition, Should we say sorry.

[Otter]

Keef,
OK, I had more to say due to your post, which I believe was intended to make me look like some kind of uncaring, uneducated hick. Perhaps I misread your intention, but saying my post was a "cop out" seemed to me to be a slap in the face. Apparently we agree that apologies in this regard are worthless, so I stand on my original statement...

I WASN'T THERE, DON'T BLAME ME. 'NUF SAID.

I have no guilt about past events. What happens, happens. To think that an apology to the descendents of those who suffered is designed to do anything but make the person apologizing feel better about themselves for the acts of their ancestors is ludicrous. The whole idea reeks of gratuitous self-recrimination, which I've never been very good at...

[Bad Beat Maker]

Okay I didn't take the time to read all three pages because I'm swamped with school work right now, but a majority of the times people forget that we didn't just goto Africa and kidnap people. . . They were selling their own people off for whatever gold and money they could get!

Now as for the treatment of them once they arrived here, thats a given. But people need to stop acting like Spain was just going over there with their 5' soldiers and running a muck, maybe it did happen. But majority of the times it was selling of their own tribesmen.

[Bad Beat Maker]

Also lets not forget about other people who suffered even LONGER terms of slavery and moved on, ie. Central and Southern Americans to the Mayan's, Inca's, Aztec, and also the Hebrews/Jews in Egypt.

[^*^BATMAN^*^]

A buddy of mine once said to me. "If my great grandpa murders someone, do I have to serve his sentance in jail?"

This is an issue that shouldnt be forgotten, yet it shouldnt be brought up so much. We as white people are now some of the least racist, least bigoted people in the world. Yet we are painted with an awful wide brush as being awful slave owers, that hate enyone that is not white....I have gotten into a few debates over things like this before, so this is all I am going to say. Otter is right, we wernt there, why do we appologize? You dont appologize to the neighbours for the guy that that broke into their house and stole there stuff......

[Otter]

History is history, can't be changed. All we can do is learn from our predescessors mistakes and pray we don't repeat them. 'Nuf said.

Thanks for the back up, Bman, I'll be your Robin if you ever need me.

[justloafing]

History is history, can't be changed. All we can do is learn from our predescessors mistakes and pray we don't repeat them. 'Nuf said.

Exactly. To make emends now is just stupid. Slavery was just wrong. Actually the ones that lived in the times are the ones that changed the laws to right a wrong. Don't even think about asking me to be accountable for what happened well over 100 years ago.

[isaluteyou]

the only constant in history is mans stupidity

Mind you who is to say slavery ever ended it changed forms to a different kind we are now slaves of society. Just as bad in some instances.

[CheeZee]

Mind you who is to say slavery ever ended it changed forms to a different kind we are now slaves of society. Just as bad in some instances.

...mos' def' ... nothing bad changes where greed is concerned ..it just finds different guises to take into a different decade

[rich r]

Everyone's already said the important stuff - slavery existed before the African - American slave trade. And let's not forget that it was typically Africans who had enslaved rival tribes already and made money by selling the slaves to the Europeans.

But slavery existed before then.. since the beginning of civilization.

So, why are we hung up on slavery in the modern centuries?

It was wrong, it still is wrong.

Now, I think the difference is complicity and acknowledgment of that complicity. The German companies who assisted in the Holocaust, and profited from stolen belongings should be held to repayment, sure.

But for the governments involved with the slave trade - haven't they already admitted to the wrongs and done things to make up for it? Just by ruling it illegal, they have done something. The American government bends over backwards to make things 'equal' and to raise the collective consciousness of what was done wrongly in the past.

But to continue paying for it is pointless. Descendants of slaves are so many years removed from that life nowadays. And not every black person is an ancestor of a slave, or someone who was wronged.

Slavery still exists, anyway. We should be focusing on that instead of the past.

[northswell]

As i'm the one who started this thread, I thought i should re-enter the debate.
Allmost everyone it seems is of the concensus that we do not need to apologise for what happened many a moon ago, and that slavery is still around today.
Its the forms of the modern slavery that i think was part of the reasoning for starting the thread.
Is the road sweaper employed by the local council anymore of a slave than the people all those years ago? Probably not, they probably are not qualified to find a better position, they are forced to work in all conditions etc etc. Most people are slaves to the wage but some don't have an option how they can earn.
This leads onto the real modern slave trade. Girls sold for prostitution, kids working in shitty conditions in the far east to supply all us what we take for granted.
Will my great great great grandkids have to apologise for me buying a new pair of trainers?
Most people in the west are against the above but we like the people all those years ago take advantage and do little to stop what goes on around us.

I must add though i have never paid for sex, so have a clean concience on that point.

[Otter]

I don't think anyone should be forced to work in sub standard conditions, or at less than adult ages, however, it is up to the country those poor folks live in to recitify any wrongs that may be currently occuring. If the Chinese government refuses to redress the inequalities that exist in their countries, who am I to say they MUST do it? I simply choose not to purchase any products made in that type of circumstance. Don't get me wrong, I don't go and research the facts and details of the manu's employment history, but if I am aware of such a situation, I will avoid buying that firms products.