Dispatches: Greenwash

[Broosta]

Ok maybe we can all help to work this out. If we only focus on the unanimously proven facts then what have we got?

Am I correct in thinking:-

The planet is warming up.
This has happened before.
The current global temp has been exceeded in the past.
Co2 levels are rising.
This has happened in the past.
The current Co2 level is higher than ever before.
Humans are responsible for less than 1% of Co2 level.

[libby]

http://www.ipcc.ch/SPM2feb07.pdf

[CheeZee]

lol.. thought this subject would get a few riled up

..yes Libstar on many fronts ." i did mean it " ! .. but my thrown in examples were very basic and childlike because i simply couldnt be bothered to go into this at any great length lol ..

.. the local council only collects your food and materials because they have a worth.. now thats fine , except its not really .. we all pay inflated polltaxes that should more than enough cover the salary of a council worker to do the pre-sorting and not us! And then the cheeky mo'fo's sell it back to us as green eco friendly jive with an over inflated price. Yes it may well have saved trees to do this but the power consumed in the process outweighs the benfits of saving what should have already been, a sustainable wood source.

.. of course i believe in saving the world through all green-means but i simply do not buy into many of the main stream theories of how this can be done. It really makes no difference to me if those theories came from a science lab or a hedge monkey ecologist in a field clutching a Greenpeace flag !

There is so so much money wasted in this world by both camps and why?! .. " prolonged questioning earns cash for all" ... im sorry but the majority of the Greenhouse issue as far as im PERSONALLY concerned is as relevant to me as the fear that was installed by 1999 turning to 2000 !! lolol .. what a wonderful rip that was !!!

Yes of course recycle sensibly and stop polluting the air and the sea , but i am sooooo bored of hearing that a glacier is melting or there is a flux in the ozone field .. " No S**T sherlock, it was happening before we got here and it'll happen after we've gone.

I am not a big Greeny nor am i a deaf dumb and blind consumer ..i am just a dude that has had enough of Marketing lolololololol

... p.s ... Chicken Little popped in earlier to tell me that the sky was falling down, so im off out into the backyard to wait for it to happen , while thats going on feel free to commit horrendous acts of war and greed upon the planet , i wont be watching so go for it

[libby]

Of course there is alot of corporate bull tied up with the green issue but thats what going to happen in any kind neoliberal government, but the green movement was started way before the big businesses got interested. As a grass roots rebellion that in many ways is tied to the anti corporate/anti globalisation movement I would have expected you to have more time for it Cheezee, thats all.

Now everyone knows i'm ecologically minded BUT i'm about as far from some zealot far left wing doomsayer as is possible. I didnt say (and neither did DBB or anyone else) we could unequivocally prove that global warming is tied to carbon emissions, very few of the climate change scientists here would argue that you can definatley prove it, but like i've said before ITS A POSSIBILITY. One that if we ignore, and it turns out to be correct we will have some pretty major consequences.

And yes your probably all right its not going to effect you, because aren't you all clever you live in nice rich western countries that can put up flood defences and invest in alternative forms of energy. If current forms of agriculture go down the pan then yes, it will be a huge upheaval but the governement with all that money it apparently wastes on recycling can instead use it to invest in other forms of agriculture that better suit our different climate. Yey for us. Lets not worry about it all then eh? Lets just sit back and hope it gets warmer rather than colder here, hope the scientists were in fact wrong and if it all happens then adjust ourselves to it because we can.

But for a second think about someone else who maybe lives in Bangladesh. A whole country that is basically sitting on one giant river delta, alot of which is at, or below sea level. It already suffers massive flooding everytime a tropical storm swings by and what happens if sea level rises and those tropical storms become more frequent? Bangladesh government cant afford to pay for fancy flood defences like all those comfy folks sitting on there arses in the UK, and there main form of agriculture (rice production) cant simply be changed to something else as there is no money to invest in the huge changes that would bring about. Oh dear Bangladesh isnt going to be very happy that the west ignored the POSSIBILITY of climate change.

All i'm saying is that instead of completely ignoring it and writing it off like so many of you seem to think is the way forward, surely we should at least accept that it is a possibility. There IS evidence to at least suggest that much. This is what most of the scientists are doing, its the media that are hyping it as a certainty. For those of you who dont give a xxxxx what happens to the rest of the world as long as you are happy, sorry to have wasted your time, not that any of you will have read this far anyway.

[northswell]

Libby i may be wrong here but i thought Bangladeshs problems are caused by deforestation i.e silt being washed into the Delta creating the problem.

I don't claim to know enough about the whole issue to make sound comments either way so won't. What i will do though is to keep recycling as much as possible, something i was doing way before our lame local council started to provide the crappy service it does. All my house has energy efficient light bulbs i walk to work most of the time.

What does annoy me about the carbon reduction thing is that it seems that the already developed world is trying to bring the reductions in as an attempt to stifle growth in the developing world thus enabling them maintain there leadership. If that makes sense.

[pault]

The main problem I see with recycling is that it is all dependant on the local authority to decide how it will be collected and how it will be processed. If solid ground rules were applied across the board it would be a much more efficient operation.

What really gets me (I work in manufacturing) is that we have to adhere to very strict rules, which has choked manufacturing in this country.

Whilst India & China (the two largest culprets) are able to produce the cheap goods by not having any clear environmental or proper safety guidelines. It's disturbing to see how many of the people are now suffering due to lack of basic ammenities such as lack of drinking water due to not having the correct produres in place. I cannot remember the name of the river, but in china a factory spilled Benzene into the local river which is slowly working its way down and completly destroying the eco system surrounding it. Also there are now many children being born with deformities due to the pollution.

There are many more examples, and everyone signing the Kyoto Protocol is all well and good if it was fully being put into practice.

I agree with Northswell if we all do our own bit, it may seem small and maybe insignificant in the short term but it can have a much greater effect down the line.

Thats my blurted 2 cents

[libby]

Yep northswell it is partly that, also tropical cyclones, and the fact that it is a naturally wet country (hence rice being the main crop)

My point was that it in the future it will be particularly vulnerable to climate change.

[CheeZee]

Oooh this is turning out to be as good as the Religous threads when they appear !!

..Im sorry Libstar my ending to my post was condescending but was not meant to be ..

listen , many many of you here have far more factual information at your fingertips for supporting or not supporting Green theories , my rant was exactly that " my rant " and in my own babble stylee .. i will continue to do what i think is necessary to save the planet and im sure everyone else will do the same

" now if you want a factual rant from me about something then ask me why third world countries are not permitted the luxury (not) of electricity , running water etc or ask me why hydroponic plant growth has not been adopted into any lifesaving plans in Africa ! . Now those things i know a little more about .

The green debate will rage on but my interest will not lol , my attention is currentely diverted by analyzing our species apparent intent on becoming extinct ! .

..at the end of the day i turn all this jive off and stop thinking about any of this crap because i am just a toking duder that worries about stuff too much ! .. " i am CheeZee , that is what i do .. if the planet is still here tomoz then i'll be CheeZee all over again hehe

...and i did bloody read it all the way to the bottom ya smartass lol x

[CheeZee]

lmao ..and just to smoooove this over and change subject ....

Pault you have the best Avatar location ever man lol

" looking for a Whelk to English dictionary " ... bless ya , needed to snap out of all the jive , lmao

i think ive got a copy of cockles for beginners if you wanna borrow that for a while , ya know .. start off easy like

[pault]

or ask me why hydroponic plant growth has not been adopted into any lifesaving plans in Africa ! . Now those things i know a little more about .

Now how come you know so much about Hydropnics Mr Cheezee

I always wondered why they didn't set something like the Eden Project in Africa. Also why they haven't used desalination as source for water. But i'm not sure on the ins and outs of those sorta things.

Has anyone been too the Eden Project?

[CheeZee]

Thats what i do bro .. i retail hydro equipment , for gardeners of every kind

... ive not been to Eden project , not sure why really ...probably because i'll rant at them for not doing it right lolol

[Dr Rev]

My wife went to the Eden project, she enjoyed it, i didnt go on the reason of if you cant smoke it , why grow it !!!

[CheeZee]

but they can make ya some wicked rope bro !!

just read your post again Libstar ... and do you realise that in three years, that is the first time you have ever gotten fired up ... " at me " !!

lol.. i like it lil'miss feisty , nearly had to draw my scone from its holster !!

[Phil]

Anyway even if it wasn’t for global warming we are still fleshin' and its all down to greed

We care more about are personal wealth and well being than we do about the planet and others, every thing revolves around money and making as much of it as possible.

Look at forest resources, governments cut down acres of forest and sell the wood, they make a lot of money from it but once its gone there is no income from it, but they could get a sustainable economy by leaving it as it is and harvesting what they can from it. fruit, nuts, animals for food, some types of sap and bark can be sold as well , this leads to sustainable economic growth, but because of greed and governments can make more money in the short term. they cut the forests down and in the long term screw them self’s over (and us) over

Same can be said about the fishing industry its completely unsustainable if we carry on the way we are going then there will be to few fish left for populations to recover. Many fish populations are on the verge of collapse, yet one country trying to change things makes little different if Japan and china carry on exploiting it as they do.

So until we stop being greedy and stop putting money above all else nothing will change weather its global warming, recycling, or saving our oceans and forests


rant over, thats all im saying on the matter

[Real Pol]

i am sooooo bored of hearing that a glacier is melting or there is a flux in the ozone field

I can't agree with this more!

I first learn't about the "green" issues when I went to college 12 years ago and now I am sick of hearing about them, especially now that they're everywhere, (that doesn't mean I don't contiue to do my bit and am happy that it's getting easier to do so).

Everyone at work, (I work for an environmental organisation) was raving about Al Gores film, I thought it was crap. Only if you'd been living in a box for the last 15 years would it have been of interest. I know I wasn't the target audience, but I think there was one fact which I haddn't heard or which surprised me, so yes I am sick of all the green stuff.

On recycling, in Scotland it's gone up by X% over the last few years, but do you know we're landfilling more now than we ever have due to the increase in packaging? I don't see why our councils shouldn't make some money out of our waste, or maybe you should start your own plant in your back garden Cheeze to recycle your own waste, then export it to China, I imagine you'd make a fortune.

(sorry, too long, too serious)

[libby]

Hey Cheezee

Sorry it wasn't so much fired up at you as the general attitudes on this thread. I just dont like half baked opinions, and i'm not suggesting yours are at all! And a bit of debate is a very good thing

To those of you who are bored of the green debate, I agree that the spin and hype is annoying and the endless TV etc does get tedious. But dont dismiss science and research on the basis of the media or your own concentration period.

Its time for people to delve a little deeper than what is thrown at then on a daily basis....

[Broosta]

One paradox of the third world is that whilst they will suffer more from the effects of global warming, they are the least likely to be able to help due to green energy sources such as hydro, wind and solar are by far the most expensive to use.
And I think as said above, we, the western and civilised of the planet are also the minority of the planet and its the other larger portion who will have a greater effect - China, India etc. Unfortunately it looks as if they are the least likely to embrace all these planet saving green ideas .

[libby]

Thing is from their perspective they shouldnt have to. We in the west went full steam ahead developing and building and growing without the first thought to the environment. Who are we to stop them developing in the same way?

Theres no easy answer to this one i dont think

[oldiebeginner]

Well there is the plus side to global warming, warmer weather, women walking about in bikini's, better tan and if they are right and the sea pushes inwards, i'll have the coast on my doorstep in Nottingham and be closer to the surf...

Hence doing my bit towards helping wi Global warming and not having to use me car.

[CheeZee]

I don't see why our councils shouldn't make some money out of our waste,

..ive no problem with that if the local councils were putting more money back into their communities but they're not ! . Most local councils in this country are now too concerned with property deals than actually doing anything for their community .

" where have all the youth centres gone ?.. been replaced with a cheap one off cost of a crappy lil' skate park!

" where are all the community gardening projects ?.. done away with to make room for industrial site growth.

" why is housing people from other areas/countries more important than housing local people? .. because they are paid more through governmental led agencies and organisations to do so!

" why do most local council offices now look like high powered business centres when you walk through the door ? ... because thats exactly what they are !

the list goes on and on .. the majority of local councils in this country suck , they abuse power far more than the overall government and very few people ever take issue with their local council... how often do we all write to our local Mp to ask questions that shape the future. If you have, then how many wrote back with some generic photocopied response to your questioning that isnt worth the paper its printed on ?!

Local councils waste an absolute fortune on lighting our streets with substandard equipment and then refuse to even change the light bulb periodically to ensure that no power is wasted .. they simply do not care because no one is wathcing them , they push all focus towards industry and public waste and never accept responsibilty for their own actions and failings.



... man, im just full of rants this week