Slave Abolition, Should we say sorry.

[Luke]

I've voted no, because I think there is a difference between recognition of injustices that have been done in "our" name, and appologising for them.

The former is an important means through which people can be educated about them, and lessons can be drawn in order to work against similar actions, current and future.

The latter, especially if it's coupled with financial compensation, would be opening the flood gates for a whole host of claims against the former British Empire.

[Luke]

Just an idea...If topic like these are a bit heavy for the general forum, how about having a Soapbox forum for discussions about Politics, Religion, Short v Longboards etc?

[Milo]

Slavery is still going on in some parts of the world, maybe goverments should apply there power there.

[tomcat360]

Just an idea...If topic like these are a bit heavy for the general forum, how about having a Soapbox forum for discussions about Politics, Religion, Short v Longboards etc?

Not a bad idea, but I think it's HILARIOUS how short vs. longboards is included

Sooo damn true!

[oldiebeginner]

Does this mean that the Romans and the Vikings are to apolagize for thier part in slavery...?

Or the children that were as good as slaves in the Victorian Mills...?

Bringing up old history and making countries pay for mistakes...

were would they begin...?

[Otter]

Oops, sorry about that slavery thing...

[CheeZee]

is this what passes for blind accusation round here?

... " No Fixxy ... it wasnt ...i was concerned that race and culture differences could be dragged into this topic further down the line ...

and i am certainly Not saying that you good peeps are unable to have a deep heated adult debate on any subject, i was just doing my Mod' sheriffs job .. all beit a little hastily!

..and your right Libby, this could be an awesome thread and is an awesome subject

[Stone Fox]

(when did ya'll have slavery?)

People still work at McDonalds don't they?

[Brisbanebound]

We invented it! [/quote]
No we didn't!!
Slavery was a massive indiustry in Africa long before Europeans latched onto it to make money. What the Europeans did was to industrialise the whole process and turn it into a mass market.
A lot of people wax lyrical about this topic, many people suggest that to take slaves all the way to the Americas was much worse than to enslave them within Africa but this is clearly a case of imposing modern thinking on historical debate.
People today struggle with the concept that a distance of 500miles in the 1700's was as much a barrier to returning home as a distance of 5000miles. The cultural differences were also just as huge.
Can we be held accountable for historical injustices? To some extent I feel the answer is "yes" but this subject is far too broad and far to complicated to enable us to apologise for the part Europeans played.
I mean, will the wealthy African families apologise for their role?
What people are really talking about is apologising for the role Europeans played in inter-continentalising what was, already, a thriving trade in Africa.
My view is that we are applying modern values to history and that is always fraught with danger.
Someone asked if there was a time limit to apologising for historical events.
This is to miss the point.
The point is that you must judge the events not by modern standards but by the standards of the time in which they occurred. This is why the holocaust can never be justified - it was outrageous to most people then and it is still so today.
The simple fact is that in the 18th Century slavery was an acceptable trade. It was acceptable to Africans and it was acceptable to Europeans and, as such, to apologise is a mistake.

[CheeZee]

Slavery was a massive indiustry in Africa long before Europeans latched onto it to make money. What the Europeans did was to industrialise the whole process and turn it into a mass market.
A lot of people wax lyrical about this topic, many people suggest that to take slaves all the way to the Americas was much worse than to enslave them within Africa but this is clearly a case of imposing modern thinking on historical debate.
People today struggle with the concept that a distance of 500miles in the 1700's was as much a barrier to returning home as a distance of 5000miles. The cultural differences were also just as huge.
Can we be held accountable for historical injustices? To some extent I feel the answer is "yes" but this subject is far too broad and far to complicated to enable us to apologise for the part Europeans played.
I mean, will the wealthy African families apologise for their role?
What people are really talking about is apologising for the role Europeans played in inter-continentalising what was, already, a thriving trade in Africa.
My view is that we are applying modern values to history and that is always fraught with danger.
Someone asked if there was a time limit to apologising for historical events.
This is to miss the point.
The point is that you must judge the events not by modern standards but by the standards of the time in which they occurred. This is why the holocaust can never be justified - it was outrageous to most people then and it is still so today.
The simple fact is that in the 18th Century slavery was an acceptable trade. It was acceptable to Africans and it was acceptable to Europeans and, as such, to apologise is a mistake.

... in short ... " same ere' "

[northswell]

As above, i think that you have just summed up my views on the topic.

[Sar]

nicely said

[Otter]

I wasn't there, don't blame me. 'Nuf said.

[keef]

Do you feel sorry that it happened? Ask yourself that. Would an apology make you feel better?? Maybe it would. But would it make up for anything?

If you feel sorry that it happened, then maybe thats all that matters. If an apology would make you feel better then maybe thats ok too, but it wont make any difference. What's done is done. It's what YOU feel that's important. We can't change the past, but we can express an opinion about what we feel to be right and wrong, and maybe through that we can stop any future mistakes.

[keef]

I voted no, just for the record.

[keef]

I wasn't there, don't blame me. 'Nuf said.

and thats a cop out answer

[Otter]

Oh sure. I wasn't there, don't blame me. You think they should blame me because I wasn't there? I feel sorry for the folks at 9.11, the Johnstown Flood, the earthquake/tsunami a couple years ago, I feel sorry for all the evil things that have occured throughout the millenia. I feel sorry for the slaves, but dammit, don't blame me, I wasn't there. What's the cop out about that? And no, I am not going to apologize for something I had no part in. I won't even apologize for the Holocaust, because I wasn't there, my relations are from Germany, emmigrated to the US after the war, but I'm not apologizing about that either, BECAUSE I WAS NOT THERE, you need to realize Mr. Keef, that an apology for something you had nothing to do with is pretty worthless and platitudinous, not to mention condescending. But if it helps you feel better, apologize away...

[Stone Fox]

I wasn't there, don't blame me. 'Nuf said.

and thats a cop out answer

No, that's the honest truth.

He wasn't there, neither was I. We had absolutely nothing to do with it. I can't be held responsible for your actions, I don't even know you so why hold us responsible for the actions of people we've never even spoken to who've been dead hundreds of years? Don't be so fleshin' ridiculous.

And that IS what you're talking about. If Britain admits responsibility that's saying that me, as a British citizen is resposible in some way and I'm not prepared to accept that.

I think the whole Idea is absolute nonsense and it's a cynical exercise to open the way for compensation payouts.

[keef]

If you feel sorry that it happened, then maybe thats all that matters. If an apology would make you feel better then maybe thats ok too, but it wont make any difference. What's done is done.

Otter, I know an apology is worthless, hence my original post.

I just thought that surely you must have more to say than "don't blame me I wasn't there."

And clearly you did have...............

[tomcat360]

Just an update as of what's happened here, where it's coming from I believe.

A couple days ago they decided that they are going to apologize and then give them a statue downtown or something.........so now they're probably gonna complain saying that having a statue in Shackoe Slip (cool area, with restaraunts and bars and stuff, fun, nice area) isn't nearly as good as having one on Monument Ave, where we have some statues of a couple Confederate generals (JEB Stuart, Stonewall Jackson, pretty sure they already took down Lee)

I say 20 bucks to anyone that they're gonna tell them to do it.....

So what's next, apologies for every single person that was related to someone that had a hard time?