Hunk of the day....

[Guest]

Um, ironically I do. I've been doing weights for over 15 years. I train hard 4 mornings per week. And could quote things like I can leg press 340kg's (5 sets of 8 at a time) but I won't. Because they'll mean nothing to you as you don't do weights..

Regarding my freaks comment. American professional bodybuilding (and I refer to the Venice Beach thing here) is a seperate "freak show" within an otherwise mostly legit sport worldwide. I can post specific reasons you can check up on yourself if you like...let me know?

And to the poster who mentions "achievable" levels of development, look at the image and see the development of the Pectoralis Muscle compaired to the body fat level at the breast plate where the muscle connects, now go pick up a copy of the book "the adonis complex" (I cannot remember the author's name but google it) and read the first four chapters, specifically the chapter about achievable ratio of muscle mass to body fat. It's all there. With nice pictures to illustrate with & without drug examples.

Now, lets get back to pictures of nice healthy people eh?

[saffasurfer7]

Dude, everyone is different. You can't apply one rule to everyone. That guy could well be on steroids and he might not be...don't believe everything you read...A lot of people have wrong ideas about certain aspects of roids because of things that some people have written. (I'm not for steroids either but I don't necessarily believe everything I've read on them) I've spoken to people who have had first hand experience with the drugs and I'd rather go by that than something someone has written about it. Like the myth that it shrinks your c**k, it may cause impotence in some cases but c**k shrinkage is just another untrue "fact" about steroids.

Don't wanna sound arsey but just because you leg press 340kgs doesn't make you an expert on steroids or an experienced bodybuilder. I do weights at the gym all the time but don't class myself as a bodybuilder...it's more than just pushing weights.

And if you are actually leg pressing 340kgs I'd be surprised how you manage to get up on a surfboard. What are your stats then? You should post a pic of yourself if you're so ripped.

[Phil]

steroids or not i think its discusting

[saffasurfer7]

You think what's disgusting?

[Phil]

the above pictures

i mean what ever rocks your boat but i find it pretty gross its sertanly not natural

[saffasurfer7]

Yeah, I know. It's not my scene either. I like my men muscley but not like that. They were just reference pics, don't worry.

Hey, each to their own anyway, if guys wanna look like that then fair dues. It's not easy to get into that kind of shape, in a way it is pretty impressive. I quite enjoy watching bodybuilders strut their stuff, it's just a sport like any other but as for finding them attractive the unnatural look doesn't do it for me I'm afraid.

[Guest]

Dude; artifically increased levels of testosterone have the following symptoms in men; larger breasts, increased aggression levels, smaller genitals, increased acne. These are medical facts. Ask any doctor.
That's the whole thing about altering chemically the levels of the very thing that defines you as a man or woman. Look at a female bodybuilder who uses. They have decreased breast size, their clitorus enlarges (sorry), their voices get deeper, they develop facial hair etc.
Do you thing every national & international sporting body would ban them (ironically not the American Professional Body Builders Federation however) & spend millions on ever increasingly expensive testing regimes for fun. They are banned because they are dangerous & harmful to users. Period.

If you are referring to medical use of steroids...you are talking about minute controlled doses compaired to what those people above use. Different story altogether. We are talking about drug abuse here.

Regarding my stats; I look quite normal and surf just fine thanks & have done for many years. Longer than you've been alive I suspect. If you update your profile to include your email or hotmail address I am happy to take my digital camera to the gym with me this week and specifically on Sunday morning when I do legs next, I am happy to then email you personally images of me doing exactly what I say and looking quite normal doing it...further proof that to grow dramatic bulk you need chemicals.

Up to you.

[saffasurfer7]

artifically increased levels of testosterone have the following symptoms in men; larger breasts, increased aggression levels, smaller genitals, increased acne. These are medical facts. Ask any doctor.

That list is just a regular list of symptoms and most websites will list those. Do yourself a favour and log onto...http://www.muscletalk.co.uk open a thread telling those guys how steroid abuse decreases your c**k size and see what they have to say about it. You'll probably get laughed off. And that's from first hand users, not doctors, not researchers and certainly not people who use a gym regularly and think they know what they are talking about.

You're not meant to take steroids before the age of 21. This may be where the shrinkage info comes in. In few cases where guys under the age of 21 take steroids they will more than likely find it stunts their growth as they will probably still be going through puberty. Another thing, about the "larger breast development in males". That is a possible side-effect known as Gynecomastia which is a build up of glandular tissue under the breast. This can be avoided by taking a supplement known as Nolvadex.

Every drug in the world I could think of have POSSIBLE side-effects. Not all side-effects are guaranteed to take place. As for asking any doctor. I don't store much faith in doctors for a lot of things and I'd rather ask people who have had first-hand experience in areas I am interested in rather than someone who has sat and done countless hours of research.

We might have to think about agreeing to disagree and remember this is actually a surf forum and we're getting a bit carried away on the steroid front. I could go on for days though but think some ppl might start to get annoyed by our discussion.

[Guest]

And you shouldn't get your evidence nor base opinions on what you read written by users on threads within websitse like muscletalk...I mean, they're all guys looking for ways to justify their use. I'll base everything I know on personal experience (yes I can go deeper into this if you post your email address) and what I read written by medical experts, ex-users & drug testers.
The web is a distorted place of half-truths & crap basically. Base your opinions on real things.

Likewise on the web you'll find sites for NAMBLA (North American Man-Boy Love Association) does this mean what they do is legit or ok.

I rest my case.

[surferdude_scarborough]

ur discussion makes interesting reading. carry on by all accounts. plus it seems to be distracting you girls from posting pics lol

[libby]

indeed it is but finding fit blokes on the internet is only fun for so long and this a pretty hot topic, also on a dial up connection now i'm home so not so easy to keep up with the picture posting. Interesting where threads take you....

[Broosta]

Yeah I agree this makes an interesting read.
Also, thankfully, the parties involved seem to have avoided falling into the lowly depths of name calling and pettiness . Its actually turned into a healthy exchange of well balanced, opposed opinions and experiences .
Perhaps the 'guest' poster could identify theirself with a name?

[Phil]

guest surfer is brent i think, i agree with the others was sertanly intresting

[saffasurfer7]

I think you've just reiterated my previous point with your last post. My point was not to believe everything you read on the net. I've spoken to ex-users e.g. my brother for one, current users e.g. my friend and colleague, people who have spoken to several current users and are on the road to taking steroids e.g. my best mate and also the people on that forum who give sound advice. I would advise you not to slag off people who you don't know, it's just not right and if you haven't visited the forum then how can you comment at all?
And I class forums as real things the majority of the time. There's a difference between - a web page filled with "facts" possibly written by anyone who has the time on their hands to create a webpage - and a forum with real people conversing and exchanging opinions where everything is open to discussion. You may get the odd person who may give false information etc but if enough people give you the same advice then a lot of the time it's pretty sound advice if it's a topic they know enough about. It's all about common sense, if you put enough time into finding out info about something then you're gonna be able to decipher the legit info from the crap.

Do you really think millions of ppl would be on steroids if it reduced the size of their c**k, the most important part of a male's anatomy for a guy (and a woman for that matter)?

I'm sorry if you've taken gear and landed up with shrinkage but either you were just taking s**tloads or not taking it properly.

[Guest]

If you think performance enhancers are ok...then ok with me. You can't argue with "experts".

I'll step away now. I could rabbit on about an 8 year semi-professional sporting career, being a nationally ranked athlete, experimenting with EPO (prior the 50% threshold being created & it being banned however) & trying nandrolen in 1994, about the insecurity of being a young insecure striving athlete who'd do anything to get a higher UCI ranking and the dangling carrot of chemicals to help you be 3-4% better than you are now, about weighing up the chances of a positive test, about having mis-information thrown at you from people in Thailand who are able to post the stuff to you in the mail but don't answer your questions -like how long is the period until you will present a clear sample, having these things eat away at you when you're in bed alone at night too young to know the difference between right & wrong, of not succumbing to "experts" whose sponsorship contracts offer you their team "medical programmes"... I could post a personal story about how these things are offered to young athletes with potential when they are too young to understand and how team managers don't care about your health...only the health of their relationship with the main sponsor for that year through results...regardless of how they're achieved.
I could post about how suspicion grows in your peer group and you walk around paranoid about anybody who achieves a result out of character..they must be on a programme is your first thought...not gee, he did well.
Sadly too, I could post details of a personal friend who had his Olympic dream destroyed in 1998 when the UCI people seeking a random urine sample turned up on the doorstep of his parents house at 8am one winter morning during the off-season and asked him to pee in a cup. He was 24.

For the above reasons I believe performance enhancers are a cancer for sportspeople, you can however, believe what you like.

[saffasurfer7]

Fair enough, I have to say I never once posted that I support steroids in any shape or form. I've been trying to talk my mate out of taking them since he got started on the idea. My sole point and argument was...

(I'm not for steroids either but I don't necessarily believe everything I've read on them)

That's all. Some of the areas of possible side-effects are maybe exaggerated a little, or added to, might be a way to try and deter people from taking them. A lot of people read things that are supposed to be facts and go around believing and preaching it. It's the same with anything...look at tabloids for example, people go around believing what they see in the paper just because it's printed and in plain black and white but we all know how much rubbish the majority of it is really.

Anyhow, we'll go back to posting some nice pics and forget bout the steroids for a while.

[libby]

[libby]

[saffasurfer7]

Now we're talking...

Vin's the man!!!

[Lallylagirl]

Johnny Depp, now thats someone who'll be hot till he's 80! Nice taste Libby!
Not to start a fight, but the 'hunk' pictures are a lot more tasteful than the 'babes'. Guess it tells you something about men and women.