working out then surfing

[bgdkmetzger2003]

For a while now ive been hitting the gym pretty hard and ive definitely noticed it....not in a good way!! I have a lot of trouble paddling now and popping up. I think working out is making my surfing suffer. There's got to be a middle ground somewhere. Any ideas? I deliberately dont work my tricepts but im still feeling pretty weak when I surf now cause its usually the next day. I dont want to stop working out though.

[PapaW]

You need to make sure that with all this work your putting your body through, you are accordingly supplying it withth e protein and carbohydrate it need to recover and re-build your muscle structures.

Chicken, fish, potatoes, rice, pasta etc...

[Driftingalong]

Don't over do it...
Don't work the same muscle groups two days in a row (they need the days rest to recover too )
Also work on streching and flexability.
I would think push ups, tricep and back excercises would help with paddling and pop ups. Thigh excersises would probably help with long rides.

[drowningbitbybit]

A big thing about lifting weights in the gym is that if you develop certain muscles, it'll tighten the tendons which means you wont be as flexible.

I cycle a lot, and I get tight hamstrings if I dont do specific stretches to counteract it.

So if you're going to weights, then add some stretching exercises, or do yoga as well

[Brent]

You need to structure your workouts so you do the bulk of your shoulders, chest & back exercises in such a way that you allow 24 hours or so before demanding the best of them surfing.

If you do surf tired from weights - tough it out; it's called adaptation and it'll make you stronger. I often do a hard shoulder session before work in the morning...and surf that evening after work. Sure it's abit sore and I feel sluggish...but the combined effort....makes you a stronger paddler.
I'm a better surfer for doing hard weights. It just takes careful planning.

If you have specific questions. PM me.

[bgdkmetzger2003]

I think the main thing is giving my muscles enough time to recover after the gym. A lot of times ill work out at night and wake up the next day and go surfing. Sometimes if I go later in the day Im still tired. I have to explain by going hard I mean that Im repping 165 on the bench and Im repping 155 on the bent over row. I do some other things but those are the main lifts and I also run at the end. I think the row is whats killing me! So I think I just need to space the work out apart a little more. Thanks for the comments.

Ive also noticed that surfing has made my bench press go down.

[Laguna]

You rep 165 times when bench pressing? Have I got that right? If I have thats just over training and will just damage your muscles (not letting them grow/repair). I dont know why you dont work your triceps, thats one of the main areas I make sure to cover. Triceps build your entire arm, shame I havent got triceps tho

I think its good to work all your muscles, I cant ignore an area, otherwise in months to come I would be deformed and not in proportion.

[pat42]

Try CREATINE.....It's brilliant!!!! Helps you surf for hours and recover quicker. But you've got to follow the instructions to the word or you'll damage your liver or kidneys (can never remember which is which) Why are you doing so many reps??? If you want to bulk up: high weight and low reps....for losing weight or definition; low weight high reps and plenty of rest otherwise you're just wasting your time and fleshin' up your body and also losing surfing time. Stretching is VERY important. If you dont take time to stretch before and after a workout or surfing you're going to slow down your recovery time or damage yourself.

[bgdkmetzger2003]

I rep 165. I take the weight of 165 and lift it 12 times for 6 sets. I do the same for the bent over row. And the reason I dont do tricepts is because I have done that but I think the bench works my tricepts enough plus the surfing totally kills them. My tricepts would hurt too much if I trained them because of the surfing.

[Brent]

good; at last a thread I can get my teeth into. weights are a topic dear to my heart as they are a wonderful thing for any sportsperson to do - especially when thought about & done sensibly.

Firstly, my background in this. I'm an ex-cyclist, I raced Cat 1 for a decade and was ranked about 6th nationally here for the same period. Weights were a huge part of my during this time. Surfing was counterpoint to this passion and the two sports have consumed me for 30 years (I'm 40).
As I retired from cycling in 1998 and my free time totally focused on surfing I thought about what knowledge could I carry over...what could I do to be a better surfer. I work for a living and although I do surf almost every day, I still want to be able to do 3 hard surfs a day when the surf is good, often for 4-5 days at a stretch. I still want to ride low-volume shortboards. And I still want to be light enough to not need fat old-man surfboards.

Weights are the answer for me. This is my programme. Always early morning sessions before the office...unless dawn patrol is on.

Monday; Legs. (whatever combo you prefer) I legpress 360kgs, 5 sets of 10-12. Hamstrings & calves to finish off. Just do them as hard as possible.

Tuesday; Bench press & upright rows together as agonist/antagonist exercise (i.e do bench then immediately do upright row as part of the same set. I bench 80kgs, set of 15 (endurance) alternate with set of 90kg upright rows. I do this 4 times.
Incline bench ; 4 sets 60kgs...alternated with hanging chin-ups (again the agonist/antagonist method.
Overhead raises lying down; this is the king-exercise for paddling. this is the one that gives you paddling power. I do sets of these using 20-35kgs, as many as I can crank out.

Wednesday; Shoulders. Front middle & rear delts...hard as I can, drop sets, you name it...till I can barely carry my gymback out the door.

Thursday; biceps & triceps (together) shrugs & lower back exercises.

Every day I throw in abs & lateral twisting sets of things like Russian twists etc etc...for core strength. Always variety.

Now I know the BULK of my hard surfing is likely to be in the weekends so I do the surfing related muscles early-mid week to allow recover time...

Needless to say if the surf is on...all of this takes second place. This programme keeps me fully tuned to do anything from cycling to sea-kyacking...and paddle all day long when surfing.

Hope it's of some use to you.

[bgdkmetzger2003]

sounds like a good work out plan. At one point or another I was doing something similar. It sounds like you place a high priority on surfing. WHere you space those muscle groups apart, I do everything In one day (or mostly everything). Then I try to work everything 2 to 3 times a week. Im doing this becuase I want to see results (not to say that your way wouldnt see results). And I know your way is good because Ive done it. But Ive found that just going really hard, especially on chest and back really thickens you up. Legs are important too but so is cardio so at the end of the workout I run for about 12 minutes (I know that doesnt seem like very long but when you just worked out for 2 hours its pretty hard). Ive done a lot of different work outs and I definitely like the antagonist? work out (where you work opposite groups).

[Broosta]

I used to do a fair bit of gymn work, and I can only say it does seem like you are overdoing it bgdkmetzger2003 - remember max muscle damage occurs 36-ish hrs after the exercise if you are really pushing for size.

1 hour workout tops without CV stuff is what I used to aim for and I used to do it by separate body parts on different days very similar to Brent's routine.
I tried longer workouts but that just used to be too much of an ordeal and I'd lose interest, also I found I made more progress(size) by doing 1 hr max workouts. Less is more !

And as already said - nutrition is very important too.

[bgdkmetzger2003]

This is a really interesting topic.

I see what you mean. And Im not saying that my way is better than yours, it just seems to work well for me at the expense of being a weaker surfer (ha). I have done exactly what youve said before. And yeah I am exhausted after the workout but....Ive heard that working larger muscle groups releases more muscle building chemicals in the body, thats why people do a lot of heavy squats because it can make your upper body bigger as well.

I used to do a lot of bicepts and tricepts because I wanted my arms to look bigger, but Ive found that by lifting a lot on back and chest, my arms have gotten bigger according to my back and chest.

I just try to make my workouts the most effective for the amount of time. I cant go to the gym everyday so I go really hard 2 to 3 times a week. Theres plenty of time to rest in between. I guess I follow the saying "Go hard or go home."

In the end I think it just is what works best for you. I think Ive found what works best for me...at the expense of being a weaker surfer. But ANytime there is a good clean swell coming in I can just take a couple days off before I go surfing. THat should work

Thanks for the feedback and the more the better

[Brent]

My question is are you trying to achieve size for asthetics...or strength for surfing.

Surfers generally do not desire or need size. With size comes increased bodyweight, restricted movement (chaffing under arms etc) and the need for thicker & higher volumed boards. Not to mention custom fitted wetsuits :-)
Any sportsperson (generally) wants to be as strong as possible within the lightest body possible - this gives you your highest VO2.

What sort of compromise are you after?

Also, I read earlier here a post mentioning Creatine; Sorry. We tested this stuff back in 1994-5. At this time it was mooted as the new "wonder suppliment" for short-period maximal effort sportspeople like powerlifters, sprint track cyclists & javelin throwers etc.
Our tests were part of a long-term study of most performance products(powerade, powerbars etc) done at a University Human Nutrition Dept, by qualified doctors (with phy ed students assisting). Several protocol for the Creatine tests were used -Fasted (starved) overnight with morning short period sprints on treadmills with blood samples taken between intervals (having consumed creatine moments before)..and a different test involving a 160km road time trial with blood taken every 15 mins via cathaders. (trying a steady-state effort approch). We tried Creatine from Eastern Europe along with several other samples. We simply could not find any science to back up the claims, no actual changes to blood sugar or lactic levels nor an increased tolerance to lactic acid while the stuff was within us.

This is why it's still legal and largely ignored. If it actually worked it would have been banned a decade ago. It remains a powerful placebo however.

[bgdkmetzger2003]

That is very interesting about the creatine. I had heard that it helped people retain more water and that is why they looked bigger. I took it myself for a little while about 5 years ago. I thought that it added some weight but I guess it wasnt the creatine. Probably just felt more motivated to work out because of all the hype.

Also, you have brought up a good point that I need to address with myself. I am lifting for asthetics and not for surf performance. And I know from experience that whatever muscle I gain will be gone in a couple months if I quit. I didnt lift all of last summer and just surfed everyday and I lost 15 pounds of muscle!! No joke. Im afraid of that happening again. Im 6 foot and I know my normal weight is 170. But right now I weigh 188 with little fat. I dont like how I look at 170. So I dont know what to do...

[pat42]

Years ago I bought "Cybergenics Phase 1" which uses the zero effort principle, where you excercise a muscle group to failure (cant lift any more) and straight away, without any rest, using a lower weight, rep until failure again and then using a lower weight, rep until failure again. It's a real killer but you'll notice results. They also emphasise that if you want to bulk up you must keep anabolic excercise to a minimum and not to train any body part more than 2 times a week allowing 42 hours rest in between sessions. Its very intense but it does work. This bloke calls it drop sets http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/jon32.htm

And creatine....I only use it when I'm on a surf trip and want to maximise my time in the water and have a quick recovery. It works for me, and I dont think there would be a multi million dollar industry if it didnt work![/url]

[Brent]

Likewise multi-million dollar advertising keeps powerade, gatorade etc alive; yet the single best carbohydrate drink we tested was vita-fresh cordial (true). 50 cents a packet at your local supermarket. :-)

What you're referring to is called drop-sets. To failure, then lighter weight, working down till your a quivering mess. I do it with shoulder muscles and arms sometimes. because they're smaller they're harder to burn out & fail. Just a different way to do it...it works too. Better for endurance sportspeople. Makes you mentally harder too.

Why would one be 'afraid' of being lighter? Most surfers find their "race weight" when surfing several times per day on a surf trip or similar. At the end of the trip they're lighter, leaner & paddle fit. Which ultimately is ok...isn't it?

[bgdkmetzger2003]

I was noticing the other day that most surfers arent really balked out. In fact I cant think of any. I dont like looking skinny, its just me. My face looks all shrunken.

Here's a good work out plan: Manual Labor 5 days a week for 8 hours and then work out after work for an hour. I did that last summer. I swear to you that I could bench 225, 5 times. There is no way that I could do that now. Like I said before, I think surfing takes away performance in the gym.

[pat42]

Cheers for the vita-fresh cordial tip!! Sounds like some stuff they have in Bali called Extra Joss and as for being skinny....I'm skinny but toned. Like a whippet all ribs and cock

[Brent]

Ditto here *smirk*