Surfing Waves

A while back, I asked on this message board if it was time for me to move to a shortboard. Part of it was that i was forced to as a couple of my longboards were stolen and part of it was that I got a bit cocky about my abilities and part of it was that I thought the longboard was preventing from making the steeper drops in bigger surf. So I bought a fish - a used 6-6 length very thick board. Even though I have had some good days on it where I was able to do some bottom and top turns a few in a row, those have been far and few. It is hard to even describe but I just struggled on it. I kept blaming the board, which i still think is not the best, but I have to accept that I moved shorter too much too fast.

At this point, I want to go back to basics and need some advice. Just to summarize, I started surfing about 1.5 years ago, mostly surf in south shores of Oahu/Hawaii. In summer, i go 3-4 times a week at least and in winter about twice a week. I started with a borrowed 11 foot epoxy, then moved to a 9-6 for a few months, then 9 for a bit, 8-6, then 8-0. I think up until that point everything was good. That was about the 1 year mark. Then, I bought the 6-6 fish. In my regular break at Rockpiles, I had some success. I loved how easy it was to bottom turn, almost without any effort and even though catching waves were much harder than the longboard, i still was able to as long as it was waist high. Also, a few times in bigger, head high type of surf, the board helped me get drops that I wasnt able to with the longboard. Then, i started to go to a few different breaks and just never could get comfortable. It could also be that I lost a bit confidence that affected things. In those breaks, I kept falling on the early stages of a ride more often than i had liked.

Finally, last week i went to north shore in close to extra large surf and even though it was larger than I am used to, I just couldnt make anything happen. So I decided, I need to take a step back because at this point, as you guys suggested here, I moved too fast. One thing I didnt realize I think was that my confidence suffered as a result and without confidence, surfing becomes a lot harder.

So, my question is what I should do at this point. My buddy has a 7-6 board, that is about 3 1/8 thick and offered me to use it. Is that a good idea at this point, or do I need to go bigger to maybe 8-6 or so?

How wide is the 7’6? If it’s fairly wide (say 22 inches or so) then it should be pretty stable and will help you not falling off as much. In my experience, going up a foot in length will make a big difference and should help out a lot. I think you just give us go for a few sessions, but don’t convince yourself it won’t work - it absolutely should make a big difference. Your paddling fitness should be fine, you just need a bit of ‘assistance’ catching the wave earlier (less steep) and some stability in standing

Well, now that you've learned through trial and error. I want to hear your answer to your own question as if someone else posted it.

"Let me ask you this, what is the benefit of moving to a shorter board in the progression of surfing? Or is it just a matter of style?

dtc wrote:How wide is the 7’6? If it’s fairly wide (say 22 inches or so) then it should be pretty stable and will help you not falling off as much. In my experience, going up a foot in length will make a big difference and should help out a lot. I think you just give us go for a few sessions, but don’t convince yourself it won’t work - it absolutely should make a big difference. Your paddling fitness should be fine, you just need a bit of ‘assistance’ catching the wave earlier (less steep) and some stability in standing

Thanks for the advice. The board is 21 inch wide, 3.125 thick. Luckily my friend told me to try it for a bit. So i will do that.

waikikikichan wrote:Well, now that you've learned through trial and error. I want to hear your answer to your own question as if someone else posted it.

"Let me ask you this, what is the benefit of moving to a shorter board in the progression of surfing? Or is it just a matter of style?

That is a great question. Because it is really hard to put a finger on it. I just know it from my own experience. Something just doesnt feel right with the fish, which is why i keep saying the fish sucks instead of me not being good at it. I am understanding more and more how important confidence is in surfing or probably any sport especially an extreme type of sport like surfing.
Also, u guys had told me that in a shorter board i would have to take off at the steeper part of the wave. Which is why u told me if i struggled with steeper drops, it wasnt time to think i can handle shorter boards. When it is a smaller wave, that is doable but as waves get bigger, i havent developed the balance to take those steeper drops regularly that my one time surfing instructor said takes many years to develop.

I also agree that shortboard is just a different type of style and that i dont really need to go short to progress. However, in the rare instance i was able to follow up a bottom turn with a top turn, I felt ecstatic. So it made me feel for a brief moment that i progressed to the second stage from beginner. So, while some of you guys may prefer a longboard style, i am sure you would adapt to a shorter board quickly if you decided to surf that style. If i can see myself doing that, then i can decide which style i prefer or even better, change my board according to conditions.

Is the 6'7" Kimo Greene that is in the photo at Diamond Head, the fish you're talking about ? If not, can you post a photo of it.

waikikikichan wrote:Is the 6'7" Kimo Greene that is in the photo at Diamond Head, the fish you're talking about ? If not, can you post a photo of it.

Yes that is it. It is a bit roughed up though. One day after surf, i put it on the roof rack on top my of my car but forgot to tie it up. It flew off to the road at speed (luckily to the side of road and not on another car) and has a bunch of roughed up parts including the fins. I even blamed that for my struggles on it

Ummmmm....... that’s NOT a Fish. More like a Egg shape or big guy board. Pretty much has no fish attributes.

waikikikichan wrote:

D4ECC4AB-1D76-467A-AF25-F863A65ACA3C.jpeg

Ummmmm....... that’s NOT a Fish. More like a Egg shape or big guy board. Pretty much has no fish attributes.

I see. That makes sense, i knew the tail wasnt fish tail but because of how thick it is, i thought it was a fish.

So what are the qualities of this type of board? The reason i am asking is when the guy was selling to me, he was pretty apologetic and told me i was welcome to return it. He said a couple of guys before me had to return it after 1 or 2 sessions. I know one thing i hate is you cant duck dive and when you turtle roll, you still get dragged by the white wash. There is no good strategy to get through white wash at least not for me.

Is it just a suitable and more maneuverable board for a big guy then?

Eraserhead wrote:However, in the rare instance i was able to follow up a bottom turn with a top turn, I felt ecstatic.

That right there is the reason to be on a short board and to put in the extra effort. I can catch a ton more waves on a longboard but I have way more fun on a short board. And presumably fun is why you go surfing in the first place, right?

The plus side of trying a board that is too small for you is that it often makes larger boards feel easier by comparison. As waikikikichan indicated, trial and error are great teachers.

And, btw, learning to ride a short board doesn't mean you can't take your log out every so often to get your wave count (and confidence) up again.

I have a Kimo Greene board; love that board. Mine is an 8'2"...not sure about the other measures but seems a little narrower than a longboard so maybe 21ish" wide and is super thick, similar to yours. Kimo is a big, older guy and makes boards as far as I can tell from pictures on the internet that suit bigger and older guys on big waves in Hawaii and here in Bali where he divides his time. The 8'2" is a lot longer than your 6'7" but is a lot more manuverable (read: unstable) than malibu shaped longboards of 8-9ft that I've ridden. He shapes for Uluwatu & Nusa Dua here, both bigger breaks on their day and that board comes alive starting at overhead surf levels. Best day I had on that board was a double overhead day 6 months ago.....just runs so fast and stabiizes with speed. The thickness helps with paddle speed to get you into bigger waves early. Anyhow, you're not ready for a board like that yet.....if you come to Bali bring it, you've got a buyer waiting.

If you're in Hawaii, there is another shaper there, J Vicente.

https://www.facebook.com/J-Vicente-Surf ... e_internal

I have a longboard from him, an 8'6", performance shape with a pulled in, foiled tail that holds in on steeper drops on bigger, stronger waves. If it is a board for bigger waves that you want and aren't ready for a short board yet, or like an easier paddle and fit of a big board, a bigger Kimo Greene or a J Vicente like I have might be just the board for you.

I've ridden overhead waves on the mega magic (fatter board in the photo) and board goes well and is a better all arounder, able to catch pretty much anything and is quite manuverable. Honestly, you'd do well to ride a board like that one for a year or two then go on to something else.

Props to Kimo as well; besides making a great board he's a genuinely nice guy; sent me a few messages that cheered me up when I was laid up with a broken jaw.

https://www.facebook.com/Deweykimo/

Something interesting to note.....look at the waves on Kimo's Facebook page (Uluwatu). Then look at all his customer photos posing with their boards. Pretty much every photo the board is at least an arms length longer than the head of the customer. That 6.7 is undersized actually by his standards unless you're in the mid 5' height range.

Big H wrote:That 6.7 is undersized actually by his standards unless you're in the mid 5' height range.

Or should I say “ Who you talk’in about Big H ?”

Big H wrote:If you're in Hawaii, there is another shaper there, J Vicente.

https://www.facebook.com/J-Vicente-Surf ... e_internal

I have a longboard from him, an 8'6", performance shape with a pulled in, foiled tail that holds in on steeper drops on bigger, stronger waves. If it is a board for bigger waves that you want and aren't ready for a short board yet, or like an easier paddle and fit of a big board, a bigger Kimo Greene or a J Vicente like I have might be just the board for you.

I've ridden overhead waves on the mega magic (fatter board in the photo) and board goes well and is a better all arounder, able to catch pretty much anything and is quite manuverable. Honestly, you'd do well to ride a board like that one for a year or two then go on to something else.

The mega magic looks sweet! How long was that?

It's 8', a thick little chunker and a lot of fun. Wet season is on us here and with it small, fat and gutless waves......I've got the antidote!

https://imgur.com/a/IXmERzY

So in the end, i came back to the original advice that came from you guys. Actually somewhat, because the advice was to ride a long board for a couple of more seasons before moving to a 7-6 but i rode the egg for the summer season and now dialing things back with the 7-6.

Not sure if the images are showing but this is my new board.Dimensions are 7-6, 21", 3 1/8. It is quite different than anything i rode before. The rocker in the front feels massive compared to my previous board or longboards before .When I am lying on it, i have to be really closer to the front than i have ever been before the tip is only a couple of inches above still water. The board is shaped by North shore shaper Chuck Andrus, who apparently does not shape boards anymore to public. My buddy who is friends with Chuck had a few boards shaped by him and sold this to me. It is a lot easier to catch waves on this, probably because i have been riding the 6-7 for a long time now. The board had some nice futures thruster on it that my friend kept and i switched it to the Captain fins twin fins with a trailer fin and it doesnt feel as buttery as the futures thruster.

In my first couple of sessions, like i said i had no trouble catching waves as well popping up but otherwise I havent been able to maneuver it as easily as the egg. And I did try it on a 5-8 foot day. It was a lot easier to catch waves that in the past I felt i could pearl but my bottom turns havent been as smooth.

Let me know if there is any advice other than just going out there to put the time in. I am planning to replace the fins with a thruster as soon as i can. I am particularly wondering if I should still stick to the principal that when i am paddling, board will be only a couple inches above water which will mean i will be really close to the front. Also, when i pop up should i be near the middle or more towards the back, as i have experienced the front sinking or board stalling more often than before. Again, I only had 2 sessions on it.

It looks like you currently have a big twin fin setup w/ a smaller trailer fin. That would loosen things up on a much smaller board, but at 7'6" you might be better served by running a smaller thruster setup. The outside fin placement also looks really close to the rail, which is great for drive but also won't feel as loose. You might even try running a larger center fin and smaller side bites and see how that changes things for you. Experiment for a few more sessions and you'll have your answer.

That is what I actually want to do, larger center and smaller sides but since the boxes are all futures, I have to mix and match to create that set up. Could something like 5" center and 3.75-4" sides work?

surferbee wrote:It looks like you currently have a big twin fin setup w/ a smaller trailer fin. That would loosen things up on a much smaller board, but at 7'6" you might be better served by running a smaller thruster setup. The outside fin placement also looks really close to the rail, which is great for drive but also won't feel as loose. You might even try running a larger center fin and smaller side bites and see how that changes things for you. Experiment for a few more sessions and you'll have your answer.