Surf Etiquette especially Malibu and SoCal

[Ratfinksurfer]

I'm just wondering what others have to say about surf etiquette at Malibu and other LA breaks. Because one look at the Surfline first point cam and you'll see every wave is basically a party wave when it's crowded on a good day at Malibu. Yet every time I surf Malibu I wind up chatting with someone who surfs in San Diego and they tell me this unruly behavior wouldn't be abided in SD. I'm always watching better surfers paddling around the line up and getting the best waves again and again. Sometimes it looks like it's just a garage sale of snakes and drop ins. Maybe I wish Malibu were more like Hawaii and there were actual locals who could regulate? Maybe there are some rules at Malibu and I'm just not seeing them? Touchy subject I know. Have fun and be gentle!

[jaffa1949]

Bu equals Zoo
Especially too
when we don’t know you.
Snakes and drop ins are fine
If you can’t hold your line.
We don’t give a damn
what you see on the cam.
So harden up buddy
We don’t give a cuss
We’re all surfing here
cause it’s all about us!

[BaNZ]

I only surf at San O in SD. Occasionally I do surf at scripps pier. It's usually a party wave at SanO but there is always some angry old guy who shouts at everyone who gets in his way. I would say SanO is different to all the other breaks in SoCal so it probably isn't normal.

Whereas in La jolla, Scripps. It's just way too crowded and many beginners so you will be dropped on.

[billie_morini]

Rat,
Malibu is tough because it's easy to surf. That is why the: 1) North American surf craze originated there long ago, and 2) high population density from a nearby region throngs to it.

BaNZ provided some notes about San O. Elsewhere in this forum there are photo when he and Mrs. BaNZ treated me to a cookout on the San O beach with some of their good friends. Also elsewhere in this forum, there may be photos of when BaNZ and Mrs. BaNZ joined the billie morini family for a bonfire on San O beach. All this aside, BaNZ surfs the Old Man's break at San O. This is the middle break within 3 breaks. I tell him to surf way out at the southernmost break called Dog Paddle. There are fat, slow 7 foot swells out there that offer rides close to and exceeding 1 minute. There's also no "angry old guy" shoutin' out there. Do you know what BaNZ offers in defense? He says he doesn't want to paddle out that far! To his defense, he is one of the truest of the true (friends) and he surfs very well in the Old Man's break.

As far as Malibu goes, simply join into the free-for-all. If anybody gets mad at you, then: 1) apologize, or 2) clock them. Or if you want to be passive-aggressive, then tell them, "Hey Champ, I didn't come here to watch you surf."

[Ratfinksurfer]

Thanks for the words Billie,
Yeah, I usually have a blast in the free for all that is Malibu. I'm starting to think I prefer point breaks in fact. We just had a decent swell here at my local beach break and it was murder getting outside. Then once outside it was pounding massive close-outs for the most part. Malibu on the other hand is like a machine. Even when it's flat Malibu works. I love getting a long ride over the steep take off into a three second ride at my local beach break. Am I a longboarder at heart? Maybe I'll take a trip down to San O. When the kiddies are a little bigger I want to go camping down there at Doheny some day.

[BaNZ]

Billie, I'm long overdue for another surfing trip in SanO! Maybe I should plan something for thanksgiving/Xmas. We shall see. However I'm not a huge fan of SanO during winter. It can be too windy and the swell is so much bigger.

Plus I don't paddle too far out due to many shark sightings in recent days. Also I can only paddle that far out when it is clean glassy days. It is way too far out on bigger days!

[jaffa1949]

Billie, I'm long overdue for another surfing trip in SanO!
Plus I don't paddle too far out due to many shark sightings in recent days. Also I can only paddle that far out when it is clean glassy days. It is way too far out on bigger days!

If you see them they're not biting, did you check out my big dorsal fin picture!
Besides you are more likely to come to harm on the Freeway or by bee stings, and bees do not fly too far out in the lineup!

[RinkyDink]

I'm just wondering what others have to say about surf etiquette at Malibu and other LA breaks. Because one look at the Surfline first point cam and you'll see every wave is basically a party wave when it's crowded on a good day at Malibu. Yet every time I surf Malibu I wind up chatting with someone who surfs in San Diego and they tell me this unruly behavior wouldn't be abided in SD. I'm always watching better surfers paddling around the line up and getting the best waves again and again. Sometimes it looks like it's just a garage sale of snakes and drop ins. Maybe I wish Malibu were more like Hawaii and there were actual locals who could regulate? Maybe there are some rules at Malibu and I'm just not seeing them? Touchy subject I know. Have fun and be gentle!

Sadly, I agree with you. I've checked lots of surf cams and concluded that etiquette doesn't really exist out there these days. It ain't just Malibu and SoCal either. (There's decent surf today in Santa Cruz. Watch the Pleasure Point cam. Do you see much etiquette out there?) My conclusion: if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. In my opinion, the problem is the pecking order ideology. If it's okay for the locals/experienced surfers/misanthropes etc. to drop in because they believe they have "earned" some kind of special privilege, then it's inevitable that people will imitate the local "alpha" surfers and party waves result. You can't blame people for dropping in if the experienced surfers feel they have the privilege to take any wave they want. I think these days it might be wise to recognize that theory and practice diverge radically in the water. In fact, I think it might be time to start discussing what the safest way to drop in on people is. Perhaps the best solution would be to say that drop-ins are okay if a surfer is 75 feet down the line from another surfer so that any rider who takes a wave can at least attempt to get a short ride before they're dropped in on.

[jaffa1949]

The punch ups and stink eyes would then occur over what 75 feet is and all the world except the US ismetric.
Surfers can't agree on how to measure waves so how is the tale of the tape going to work, you are dependent on human nature and the current sense of entitlement, same attitude that cuts you off for a carpark or road rages about some supposed slight in traffic.
It really is in a lot of areas, dial a silverback!
Wallow around and nobody cuts you any slack!
How does your sense of personal invasion feel when you live at a holiday destination when the hordes descend and trash and behave obnoxiously in your "backyard"
The reverse situation, you go somewhere nice for a surf vacation , you've paid dollars you want a surf to unwind from the day to day drudgery of work! Relieve the pressure, hordes in the water wanting the same.
You want to surf a good break you don't know the rules how to control your board, you want have your experience of surfing before you go back to Kansas or somewhere inland. How do those value weigh in your thoughts
The image of surfing is free and easy, just what we want enjoy, but hey it's a frothing freeway packed lane to lane with all of the above.
Entitlement.
Over population and over expectations of what surfing really is!
Wonderful commercial entity with smiling beautiful people selling the dream.
Like soda ads the commercial smiles rot your teeth!
Have a look at who owns what in the surfing fashion world and you have your answer!
Edited to add another thought to this rant. Before the inter web , webcams ET al, surfers smelt the breeze and knew whennswell would arrive, localized and specialized knowledge, no you look at the cam , and the swell forecast and head to that beach overwhelming the local cohort.
Like pillaging Vikings and the treasures of Lindesfarn!

[BoMan]

Billie, I'm long overdue for another surfing trip in SanO! Maybe I should plan something for thanksgiving/Xmas. We shall see. However I'm not a huge fan of SanO during winter. It can be too windy and the swell is so much bigger.

Plus I don't paddle too far out due to many shark sightings in recent days. Also I can only paddle that far out when it is clean glassy days. It is way too far out on bigger days!

If you and Billie agree on a date, let me know. I'm planning to visit my son and his new twins and would love to join you.

[billie_morini]

Billie, I'm long overdue for another surfing trip in SanO! Maybe I should plan something for thanksgiving/Xmas. We shall see. However I'm not a huge fan of SanO during winter. It can be too windy and the swell is so much bigger.

Plus I don't paddle too far out due to many shark sightings in recent days. Also I can only paddle that far out when it is clean glassy days. It is way too far out on bigger days!

... and I am long overdue going to San O with you! If Thanksgiving or Christmas, then come to Santa Barbara, too. Winter is a very good time to try Mondos. Our home is dog friendly, so all of you can come here. We want to take Mrs. BaNZ to a very unique local restaurant, too.

...and we see BoMan will join us. He's got some grandchildren coming in September. They will live with their lovely parents between here and San O. He'll join us and we'll all have a BLAST!.

Tschüss!

[billie_morini]

Billie, I'm long overdue for another surfing trip in SanO! Maybe I should plan something for thanksgiving/Xmas. We shall see. However I'm not a huge fan of SanO during winter. It can be too windy and the swell is so much bigger.

Plus I don't paddle too far out due to many shark sightings in recent days. Also I can only paddle that far out when it is clean glassy days. It is way too far out on bigger days!

If you and Billie agree on a date, let me know. I'm planning to visit my son and his new twins and would love to join you.

Perfekt, BoMan!

[OlegLupusov]

I don't even go to Malibu anymore! Too crowded! Snaking seems fine almost at all CoCal beaches which is annoying

[saltydog]

I'm just wondering what others have to say about surf etiquette at Malibu and other LA breaks. Because one look at the Surfline first point cam and you'll see every wave is basically a party wave when it's crowded on a good day at Malibu. Yet every time I surf Malibu I wind up chatting with someone who surfs in San Diego and they tell me this unruly behavior wouldn't be abided in SD. I'm always watching better surfers paddling around the line up and getting the best waves again and again. Sometimes it looks like it's just a garage sale of snakes and drop ins. Maybe I wish Malibu were more like Hawaii and there were actual locals who could regulate? Maybe there are some rules at Malibu and I'm just not seeing them? Touchy subject I know. Have fun and be gentle!

Sadly, I agree with you. I've checked lots of surf cams and concluded that etiquette doesn't really exist out there these days. It ain't just Malibu and SoCal either. (There's decent surf today in Santa Cruz. Watch the Pleasure Point cam. Do you see much etiquette out there?) My conclusion: if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. In my opinion, the problem is the pecking order ideology. If it's okay for the locals/experienced surfers/misanthropes etc. to drop in because they believe they have "earned" some kind of special privilege, then it's inevitable that people will imitate the local "alpha" surfers and party waves result. You can't blame people for dropping in if the experienced surfers feel they have the privilege to take any wave they want. I think these days it might be wise to recognize that theory and practice diverge radically in the water. In fact, I think it might be time to start discussing what the safest way to drop in on people is. Perhaps the best solution would be to say that drop-ins are okay if a surfer is 75 feet down the line from another surfer so that any rider who takes a wave can at least attempt to get a short ride before they're dropped in on.

I encounter that sort of chaos often mostly during the fair weather days. Between surf schools, camp kids, and general newbies, the break can be full of people paddling for waves but missing. Adding to the fact that the ride-able waves get so small and far in between, every wave is a party wave of sort. 2 surfers on a wave is not uncommon as long as they are taking off at different peaks that eventually merge and far enough away that the collision is unlikely. However, within that the experienced surfers do take turns. They just blow off the ones in the bottom of the food chain. Also they have the skills to position themselves and catch waves a whole lot better than the beginners, so realistically speaking the beginners would be missing and wasting the wave anyway. It's tough for me to be somewhere in the middle of the food chain. I usually try to surf when it's less crowded. Most of the drop-ins are by the beginners that hopefully eventually either learn the etiquette or just go away (although there seems to be a never ending supply of them) and it's usually a seasonal problem at least in my area. But really the ultimate solution for me is to earn my place in the lineup by improving my skills. Sounds tough but that survival of the fittest mentality isn't surfing specific per se.

[Ratfinksurfer]

It's tough for me to be somewhere in the middle of the food chain. I usually try to surf when it's less crowded. Most of the drop-ins are by the beginners that hopefully eventually either learn the etiquette or just go away (although there seems to be a never ending supply of them) and it's usually a seasonal problem at least in my area. But really the ultimate solution for me is to earn my place in the lineup by improving my skills. Sounds tough but that survival of the fittest mentality isn't surfing specific per se.

That's pretty spot on saltydog. It's like I told my buddy, I thought I was in the right spot but somebody paddled further out and caught the wave before me, so actually that surfer was in the right spot, not me. I think it's tough staying focused on the peak when there are so many other surfers all paddling for the peak. I'm better at getting out of someone's way when they have the right of way. But to be honest I don't really mind when someone catches a wave with me. I think it's kind of like what rinky dink mentioned it's more about distance and giving others space. If you're really encroaching on someone then one surfer needs to back off. 75 feet is a long ways in Malibu! More like 7.5 feet! Let's say the length of a longboard! Yeah, I have to admit I do notice the top surfers will trade waves. But I also see everything in between, including the aggro's. At the end of the day though, I'll take a crowded point break over a close out beach break!

[tomthetreeman]

If I’m on a longer board, I get in front of the surfer with the shorter board (not being long/shortboard specific, just speed/style specific). If it’s a right, I’ll get to the right and vice versa. In other words, if the faster/less turny board is in front, two surfers can easily surf the same wave. Doesn’t work all the time, but it has worked for me at times.

Tom

[RinkyDink]

If you're really encroaching on someone then one surfer needs to back off. 75 feet is a long ways in Malibu! More like 7.5 feet! Let's say the length of a longboard! Yeah, I have to admit I do notice the top surfers will trade waves. But I also see everything in between, including the aggro's. At the end of the day though, I'll take a crowded point break over a close out beach break!

I can't really enjoy surfing in crowds so I have to find strategies to get uncrowded waves. Huge crowds diminish most of my stoke. My latest idea is to sign up for a surfing contest. I could care less about winning, but if it allows me to surf in uncrowded surf for 30 minutes, then it might be worth it I've got a heat with a 12 y.o. next Saturday.

[jaffa1949]

Good strategy, guaranteed one 30 minutes out at least. Yep crowds are a downer!
Good luck and good waves

[kookRachelle]

Billie, I'm long overdue for another surfing trip in SanO! Maybe I should plan something for thanksgiving/Xmas. We shall see.

I'm down! I've decided to stay in nyc for another year because the prospective jobs I was getting in SD were kind of meh and honestly, I love my job here. But yeah, maybe I'll change my mind since you say SanO can get so good I wouldn't care if I was making minimum wage

[Big H]

If I’m on a longer board, I get in front of the surfer with the shorter board (not being long/shortboard specific, just speed/style specific). If it’s a right, I’ll get to the right and vice versa. In other words, if the faster/less turny board is in front, two surfers can easily surf the same wave. Doesn’t work all the time, but it has worked for me at times.

Tom

Reading your post, I wonder about your thinking that a less turny board is faster.....maybe inherently, but under the feet of a good surfer who uses turns to generate speed and power, they will overtake a point and shoot surfer on a longer board......it might seem like your technique is working but maybe it's just because the rider on the shorter board either can't generate speed or won't because they don't want to be run over. Food for thought.