Surfing Waves

Hey everyone,
Quick question for you guys if you have a free moment. I'm still relatively new to surfing - coming up on a year - and am looking for a bit of help with pumping up my wave count. Unfortunately, I seem to struggle with consistently catching the waves I paddle for. Either I'm too close to shore and catch one on the head, or too far out and watch it pass beneath me. I'm aware this could be my paddling technique as well, but I'm leaning towards positioning as the problem. For example, if the wave walls up and breaks at point Y, how many yards/meters back should I be popping up ( point X). I know this varies with different boards, but in this case I'm referencing a 9'0 longboard and possibly a smaller egg shape in the future - have to have ambitious goals haha. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Stay well,
Dan

It takes time to recognize the shape of the wave in relationship to your skill with your board. So what you need to recognize is those waves that you are too far out for start paddling sooner and the ones you are too far in don't paddle for them and paddle out. This means you have to recognize the shape of the wave. Sound like you are surfing a beach break? Are there other surfers out there? If so see what they do on longboards. Have you had some lessons? If not it might help.

One thing strikes me first off in your description of what you do, your popping up, x is where the wave is breaking. = y you not pop up before.
You need to match the speed of the wave and know where and how it is breaking and actually be moving down the face with a couple of considered strokes to ensure you are going down the face. Popping up earlier, means the board speed in not matching the wave and the wave will pass under you.
Have you progressed to going for unbroken waves yet, or still white watering?
You need to be in optimal paddling position with the nose of a long board slightly out or just touching the water. Raise the nose too high you cannot generate paddle speed as you have become an aquatic snow plough. Lots of effort, no results!

Where are all the other surfers in relation to where you are?

Early days lots to do and learn correctly!

I used to watch approaching waves, ones I considered candidates for taking off on, by paddling slowly toward shore and looking over my shoulder to gauge where the wave was. Looking over my shoulder kind of got old. Now I get myself between an approaching wave and the spot I've determined to be the area where the waves are plunging. As the wave approaches I paddle parallel to it toward the peak (instead of toward the shore) so I can see it better and figure out if I need to slow myself down (continue slowly paddling parallel to the wave) or speed myself up (turn my board toward shore and start sprint paddling) in order to get myself into the takeoff zone. It helps to be able to get your board direction locked in on the fly while you're maintaining a paddle rhythm. By the way, in a pack of surfers this kind of maneuvering can get more difficult to do.

dansadler3 wrote:For example, if the wave walls up and breaks at point Y, how many yards/meters back should I be popping up ( point X).

Positioning is crucial for good surfing.

1. First you look at the waves from the beach, take some time for this so you recognise patterns and variations. This gets more easy if you surf the same spot often. Decide where and how you want to catch the wave based on what you see from shore.

2. In the lineup look to shore to find some landmarks that help you know your position.

3. Then look at the waves around you. Often it is not so easy to see what you just saw from shore, because you're in the middle. So stay on the safe (outside) side and keep looking at the waves, how they develop, try to recognise their shapes, and follow with your eyes where and how they break. This wil help you recognise the area you decided on.

4. If the bigger setwaves sometimes break further out, and you want to catch them, then look where a medium sized wave comes up but doesn't break. In that area the setwave will break.

5. Then decide if you want to be in a more risky deep position or more safe on the outside, this also depends on how fast you can paddle to make last moment adjustment. It also depends what you saw from shore on how good your spot is, if many closeouts then be more carefull.

6. Sometimes the biggest sets close out and break way outside. It depends on how you can handle the big whitewater of these cleanup sets. If you can turtle or duck them there's no worry, but if not you better position on the outside of your ideal takeoff spot, so you can race towards it to catch your wave or race outside to escape the cleanups.

You have to find that magic spot X that allows you to catch the wave. Spot X varies in size and position based on the wave conditions, the sea floor, the board, and the surfer.

For example for me, on my 9’ log, spot X at my local beach break on knee to waist high sized waves at low tide is way outside due to a series of sandbars where the water depth varies. I can catch the wave as it gets steeper as it passes over the 1st sand bar, as the wave gets closer to shore the water gets deeper and the wave face starts to flatten out again, then gets stepper again as it passes over the second bar, then finally dumps in a close out when it hits the shallowest 3rd sand bar.

When bigger waves come in then sometimes the wave will get very critical over the 1st sandbar, it might partially break, then the wave peak will crumble as it passes the deep water before the 2nd bar, then close out over the 2nd bar. It is not uncommon to see the longboarders and SUP hanging out over the first sand bar to get into the wave early. The shortboarders tend to be on the inside over the 2nd sand bar to catch the wave as it gets steeper.

The worst spot to be is in the deep water between the sand bars, every wave you paddle for will fade and flatten out as you paddle for it. This is where it is a little counterintuitive, you actually want to paddle further away from the shore to catch steeper waves. You know when you are between the bars when you can see the wave perk up in front of you, then fade next to you, only perk up again behind you. Either go forward or back, the middle is garbage. You won’t catch anything.

When I’m on a shortish board I don’t bother trying to catch waves on the outer sand bar but hang out on the inside because the waves aren’t critical enough for me to catch them.

Anyways spot X will vary based on a lot of different factors that are unique to yourself, the conditions, and what board you ride. In general a longboard will make spot X bigger, a shortboard makes spot X smaller. The surfer also plays a big role in spot X since a skilled surfer can catch and make very steep critical waves, and has the athleticism to paddle into softer waves that would just roll under you or I.

The video below speaks in generalities but the principles can be applied to your situation.

Learning this is as crucial to surfing as anything.....it burns me when I see a group out on the reef with an instructor calling students one by one and holding their boards in place while waiting for a wave......they get a little push too so four big hurdles to being able to catch waves, positioning, wave selection, timing and paddling are all handled by the instructor. Good thing as a learner is that you can take lessons like OMS said and learn about these things so long as you pay attention and ask questions as you get positioned.

Took me months when learning to sort out where I was supposed to be and that where I'd been wasn't that. Once you start to figure it out, then you're on your way..........and all that time spent in the water is not in vain since you've been developing your paddle all that time, learning about currents, sneaker sets, lineup etiquette, what your effective catch range is (how far out of position can you be when you see a wave and still make it)......well maybe not the last but like Jaffa said, early days and lots to learn........surfing is as much about learning this as standing up and riding.

At a break with other surfers the answer is easy; go catch where the good surfers are getting in who are riding boards in a similar size to yours. Easier said than done as it's not always a wide open welcome for a beginner to take the prime slot on the peak, but at least you can watch and learn.

One break I go to Sgt. Majors school on the reef when you reach the spot to wait for the wave......best marker ever.

RinkyDink wrote:By the way, in a pack of surfers this kind of maneuvering can get more difficult to do.

In a pack of surfers, this kind of manuvering is called back paddling or snaking, LOL............wave comes on and 6 guys paddle along the wave to the peak, everyone trying to get deeper than the next, paddling across the nose of the guy next to you, setting up to fade a deeper paddler too deep.............the Japanese are the best....as a group more than any other based on nationalistic affiliation, they will sight the wave with their back to the beach, paddle along the wave then make a sharp 90* turn and paddle like h3ll.....thing is 80% never look over their shoulders EVER, and when they make that 90* turn and start to paddle like h3ll it is funny as h3ll to see their expressions since there are almost always a flotilla of boards underneath a takeoff at any given location around here, and what they find out surfing in crowds here is that you need to include a bobber avoidance route path plan in your set up paddle otherwise more often than not you're staring down a dead end when you decide that you're going to take a wave.

Big H wrote:At a break with other surfers the answer is easy; go catch where the good surfers are getting in who are riding boards in a similar size to yours. Easier said than done as it's not always a wide open welcome for a beginner to take the prime slot on the peak, but at least you can watch and learn.

One break I go to Sgt. Majors school on the reef when you reach the spot to wait for the wave......best marker ever.

Those are really good fried Over here we call them mamo.

Sometimes I will use the foam line as a reference as to where the wave will break.

I surf a reef break that has lots of current and I use a coconut tree and a roof to tell me right or left lineup and to the side there is a pile of boulders in the water that I use sometimes or I use another coconut tree and roof to determine in or out lineup. On a given day I may want to see the coconut trees in different places along the roofs but mostly it is about the same. When I surf sand/beach breaks I will stand on the shoreline and find where waves are breaking that I think I want to ride. I look behind me and try to lineup some nearby shoreline structure so that when I get out I know I am in about the right place. Sometimes there are more than one place that interests me so I make note of the approximate lineups for each of them. Then I go out and try to make other lineups using two objects a good distance apart from each other that are in a line from the place I want to be to catch the waves. But sometimes there isn't any good items to lineup so I use a single shoreline item and the the shape of the waves foam from previously breaking waves and anything else I can see that helps me.

Exactly......for me at the sgt major break I use a coconut tree and a water tank on the ridge behind the beach and 90* out on the point a bushy tree and a power line tower.....trick to consistency in positioning is to use an intermediate object with something further back and note the position of the two in relation to each other as well as a secondary set of references....if the two sets are in the same position then you've returned to the spot.......when I was working on boats the captains taught me this (days before GPS) and was how they found the dive spots consistently.....called triangulation.

https://www.surfertoday.com/surfing/108 ... in-surfing

one place I surf has some houses up a hill out the back of the beach. One is painted blue, and for years you were just able to line up with the blue house pretty much regardless of the tide or swell direction. Then a big storm took the banks and for about 2 years you couldnt, it was very disconcerting! But the banks are back and all is well again

Big H wrote:

RinkyDink wrote:wave comes on and 6 guys paddle along the wave to the peak, everyone trying to get deeper than the next, paddling across the nose of the guy next to you, setting up to fade a deeper paddler too deep

Yeah, I hear you. I have problems with groms who have an incredibly annoying sense of entitlement. There were a few times on my 9'6" longboard where I was seriously thinking about running over the next little dipschnitz who intentionally blocked me. My thought was, "Well, if you're going to position yourself directly in front of me while I'm sprint paddling to take off, then I'm going to run you over to help you learn. I'll register you in the school of hard knocks if you're going to be a disrespectful special ed student who thinks he can get away with that crap." I got the stinkeye from a parent once after a close call, but her child was a rude little F***. Nowadays I have a system where I just don't surf in packs. I don't enjoy it and I've got my breaks, surfing times, tidal conditions, and little secret strategies that allow me to surf without having to deal with the pack most of the time.

RinkyDink wrote:

Big H wrote:

RinkyDink wrote:wave comes on and 6 guys paddle along the wave to the peak, everyone trying to get deeper than the next, paddling across the nose of the guy next to you, setting up to fade a deeper paddler too deep

Yeah, I hear you. I have problems with groms who have an incredibly annoying sense of entitlement. There were a few times on my 9'6" longboard where I was seriously thinking about running over the next little dipschnitz who intentionally blocked me. My thought was, "Well, if you're going to position yourself directly in front of me while I'm sprint paddling to take off, then I'm going to run you over to help you learn. I'll register you in the school of hard knocks if you're going to be a disrespectful special ed student who thinks he can get away with that crap." I got the stinkeye from a parent once after a close call, but her child was a rude little F***. Nowadays I have a system where I just don't surf in packs. I don't enjoy it and I've got my breaks, surfing times, tidal conditions, and little secret strategies that allow me to surf without having to deal with the pack most of the time.

Around here groms are ok.....they are so good they can sit inside a bit and get in with half a paddle and make sure no waves go through unridden all the while managing to stay out of the way for the most part. It's people who have spent x amount on their vacation to get here and surf that seem to carry the sense of entitlement around here; magnified ten times if they are being shepherded by a guide.

RinkyDink wrote:There were a few times on my 9'6" longboard where I was seriously thinking about running over the next little dipschnitz who intentionally blocked me. My thought was, "Well, if you're going to position yourself directly in front of me while I'm sprint paddling to take off, then I'm going to run you over to help you learn.

I gave up trying to yell and threaten idiots sitting in front of my take off or in the pit where I need to bottom turn. Yelling “ move out of there ! “ or “ Hey, it’s dangerous to be there “, is a waste. They just get confrontational, “why , what you gonna do ? “ or “ hey, no one owns the waves “. BS.
So now I calmly say “ Hey you. Yeah you. STAY RIGHT THERE, yeah right there, don’t move “. And give a sinister crazy big smile. They ALWAYS move.

Joel Parkinson is probably one of the most experienced Snapper Rocks surfers around. Watch how he gets his positioning all wrong at the very start of this video. I took a little comfort from this video because I've done the exact same thing in smaller surf more times than I like to admit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Oowupalzj8

Well you might say his positioning was wrong or maybe it was his paddling but in reality he was in a contest and he was pushing his limits so it was just barely off.

oldmansurfer wrote:Well you might say his positioning was wrong or maybe it was his paddling but in reality he was in a contest and he was pushing his limits so it was just barely off.

You're right. I actually think it was a pretty easy mistake to make. When I look at the section he was trying to take off on, it actually looks like a pretty gentle takeoff as Parko is paddling parallel to the wave. Unfortunately, the wave kind of jacked up once he straightened his board out and then he got hung up in the lip. In bigger waves I try to avoid taking a risk on waves like that. I kind of wait for them to be less unpredictable so I avoid getting destroyed. I still get my positioning wrong though. I remember looking down the other day during my takeoff and thinking it looked like a long way down. I then realized it was a long way down because I was about to go down with the lip. I shoved my board to the side and tried to kind of dive down into the trough. Ugly. I got worked.