Surfing Waves

Interesting bit if you ever wondered what at least a women says about surfing in a man dominated sport. http://www.theinertia.com/surf/a-few-things-that-totally-bug-me-about-being-a-female-surfer/ One thing is I have been surfing where there were three women out and I was the only guy. It didn't bother me but it did feel different. Women are much nicer to look at at least as far as I am concerned. One of the women was wanting to go outside I could see her checking it out. If I hadn't used up all my allotted time for surfing already I would have offered to accompany her out. She was a charger unlike the other two women who were more timid about wave choice. I enjoyed sharing waves with her more than I did your average surfer. But that situation is rare. One of the three women I see maybe every other month surfing at the most (not the charger). The other two I haven't ever seen before or since. Maybe once a year I will surf with some random woman or girl who comes to my beach.

The author is a boxer who reminds me of our MMA fighter surfer kook

Just read it.....I can empathize but at the same time I have had the experience of better female surfers who boss a lineup, getting away with backpaddles, blocks, drop ins and general bad behavior. Is it because they are women (good looking and bikini clad?). I don't know.....what I do know is that men who behave like that do not get tolerated to the same degree.

There is a sponsored from who surfs a break I go to frequently. She is about 13 or 14 and has a crew of similar aged sponsored kids she surfs with. Her etiquette is impeccable and she shreds way harder than just about anyone out there. She's just a surfer and acts like one.....I don't think anyone would dare give her unsolicited advice.


BTW, on the unsolicited advice tip.....men look for reasons to talk to women.....some are smooth and natural, others are clumsy and borderline offensive, but the intention that underlies is just to reach out and make contact, not necessarily that they actually put much stock on the drivel that dribbles out of their mouths.

A lot of guys feel and act like Patrick from Spongebob when confronted with a pretty girl and regardless of the words they actually say, whatever is said actually only means "Hi.....you're pretty!"

So I get that too about annoyances being female.....I'm trying to teach my two girls the best I can but in a lot of ways it is still a man's world.

There aren't too many women who complain about guys always buying them drinks when they go to a bar. I would be more surprised if most women wished things were different when guys went out of their way to help them surfing like this author. I take it she is a feminist and i guess I understand that but clearly men and women are different when it comes to sports. I wonder if feminists want there to be only competitive surfing..... no men's surfing or women's surfing but all compete on an even playing field? That would mean we are all equal but obviously we aren't.

oldmansurfer wrote:There aren't too many women who complain about guys always buying them drinks when they go to a bar. .

I think you would be surprised at how often women really dont want someone to buy them a drink at a bar. They may not speak up, although my brother was a barman for quite a few years and nowadays rejected drinks are pretty common (in fact, he used to tell guys 'I'll ask the women if she wants a drink before you buy it, otherwise you are probably going to waste your money')

I think if you are obviously a learning surfer, then you may well get solicited or unsolicited advice from a friendly line up, regardless of gender; but I do think people assume women will either be more receptive or at least unlikely to react badly to advice. Whereas there are men who get all worked up when someone suggests they might be doing something wrong, even if its given with the best intentions. If you are getting commentary from well meaning strangers every time you surf, its going to start grating. Its not the 2 minutes of advice, its the 2 minutes of advice 30 times in a row.

And I've seen a few attempts at trying to chat someone up in a line up (men doing the chatting). That drives me nuts, the line up is not a place to try and pick up someone. Maybe i'm just too old...

Down my way there is a womens surfing group that hits the beach Thursday mornings. If they hit your beach, then there are about 15 or 20 women in the water and they definitely out number the men. Its a very different line up I have to say - obviously they are all friends/acquaintances, but even allowing for that there is a lot more levity and chat. Although obviously I still prefer 3 people in the line up to 23 .... but its pretty common to have a few women in the line up, but rarely more than 1/2.

In my previous home break, there are a lot of women surfers. Funny enough, they go in with full waterproof makeup and eyelash. Mostly on longboards and they are okay surfers. We have two very well known surfers that surf shortboards. Neither of them wear any makeup when they go surf. They both hate participating in any competition and we all know they are better than the ones that are going to represent us in the surf olympics. It's funny when they get in the water that all the guys would just sit around and watch them catch all the waves.

dtc wrote:
I think you would be surprised at how often women really don't want someone to buy them a drink at a bar. They may not speak up, although my brother was a barman for quite a few years and nowadays rejected drinks are pretty common (in fact, he used to tell guys 'I'll ask the women if she wants a drink before you buy it, otherwise you are probably going to waste your money')

That might be. I certainly don't mind if women buy me drinks. In fact I haven't paid for most of the drinks I had when accompanying women to bars. Most of the women I know seem to enjoy the free booze although some bought me booze others by virtue of other guys buying a round for the table because they were there I got free booze. I am not a bar kind of guy though. I imagine there are at least some women who want to go out and be left alone to buy very expensive booze? I understand that some women feel like they are expected to do something if they accept a drink from a guy. That's why I let them buy me drinks. Oh well it's all good for me. I think at some of the bars here it's just a norm for guys to waste money buying drinks for women and whoever else is at their table. One of the bars I went to had a token that allows the holder to get a free round for their table. Other customers buy the token and have it delivered to the woman they want to impress. If the women doesn't like the guy she might just get up and give it a guy at the next table. As far as people giving me advice surfing, it wouldn't bother me and if they let me have a wave that definitely doesn't bother me.

I couldn't resist signing up just to reply to this one! I thought you might like a females real life comment. I was actually looking for information on surfing the coast from Costa Rica, where I am now, south through Panama etc which was my original plan but I have been in Costa Rica for 4 months so it is time to go back to Australia. My other option is a 39 hour series of flights via the US (cheaper and quicker - 39 hours straight travel time - but transiting through the US ...)

I wanted to start surfing when I was 12 but had no friends doing it and when I took my sisters huge board out at the break where my Dad was a Life Saver a young adolescent male said "Chick surfer - f..k off". Although my father had taught me how to move back and forth on my finless Coolight foam board (1960's version) and I could paddle it on my knees and laying down I had no idea how to stand up and surf. From then on until I was in my 20's I watched guys surf, lay on the beach and body surfed.

I hate getting unsolicited advice. I started riding a knee board when I was 21 and yes, I probably looked awkward tying to kick (so was further back on the board than when I was paddling) however I could get more traction kicking. I remember guys telling me to move further up my board. Not so bad then as I knew I wasn't great at first. But nearly 40 years on and I was out at Chicama, Peru (now riding a SUP) when another SUPer asked if he could give me some advice. Really - I had just caught some of the longest waves, (overhead high) in my life and he has advice for me!! I had actually observed his paddle style and thought he could improve, but I wasn't about to paddle over and tell him. I have often reflected on why it makes me so annoyed and I think it is that it is an assumption not based on need. I often find it hard to accept advice gracefully because it means the other person has judged me as not good enough. Definitely, if someone is sitting in a place that is dangerous to others and obviously has no idea give advice, but don't make assumptions based on gender. They are just the first and last times that advice has been given but there have been a few in between. I usually find though, once someone sees you make a good wave their attitude changes.

Make-up and bikinis are ridiculous for surfing. I surfed with a 21 year old 'fashion surfer' on a surf cruise adventure in Lombok, Indonesia and this Instagram model surfer was all about looks. One day she was a bit burnt from surfing in bikinis the day before. She wanted to wear a T-shirt but was having trouble tying it at the back. I asked why she didn't wear a rash vest. And she said it wasn't cool - she couldn't be seen wearing one - how sad. Instead she must have to put tons of toxic sunscreen all over her body, and her skin will still age radically. I know I am older and beyond worrying about what others think but for these girls/women their sponsorship and livelihood depend on how raunchy they look in the photos. I saw one photo of her bum in the air with a G-string bikini - very off. I remember one guy saying one time - I dont want to be surfing with bums and tits in my face if they are just sitting around trying to look good.

In my 20's and 30's I surfed in the South West of Australia where the waves are powerful. There were not many female surfers until my friends kids became old enough (Taj Burrows Grom era). I was usually surfing with guys. When I moved to a remote part of South Australia (mid 2000's) there were lots of female surfers my age and younger. They had been part of a club when they were starting and had older sisters who could drive and carry the long boards on the roof. I find surfing with a group of girls very different to when there are mainly guys. I never talk much anyway, and notice some guys chat more than girls, but there is a difference that we call "testosterone in the water". I think of it as a feminine way of being, whether that is in leadership and business or sport. It is not about being as equally strong-fit and aggressive as males. Any male can access his feminine- it is about connecting with nature, kindness and compassion.

I visited Queensland in the 1990s and there were a lot of female long board riders on gentle peeling waves. I dont think many surfed the big, powerful storms. However, it has all changed now and I admire the young, fit surfers, female, male or undescribed, any culture or nationality who are respectful and share as per surfing etiquette- giving another a wave because of kindness or because they are better positioned is great. Being condescending or as a way to chat up in the line up is in my opinion not OK. And my thoughts on being bought a drink - remembering back to my teens and 20's - as far as I was concerned most guys wanted something called sex for the price of the drinks. A generalisation I know as just a few weeks ago an older male surfer offered to buy me a coconut. I bought him one the next day. We are so not used to expecting something as a gift that it is hard to think the other person doesn't want something in return.
Thanks for posting this. I have been wanting to tell this story for a while.

Thanks Mlee2surf, I wonder about why anyone would not want advice from someone else. My guess is it has to do with confidence and self image. If someone gives me advice, how does it harm me? I have had unsolicited advice while surfing. It was no big deal. Just listen and think if they are making sense and then determine if I want to follow advice or not. I never felt bad about it. They were trying to help me no big deal. If they are condescending so what? That is them not me. I guess maybe I am more tolerant of others however I still mostly surf alone so don't often have others to take my waves or give me waves or advice.

Mlee2surf wrote: I often find it hard to accept advice gracefully because it means the other person has judged me as not good enough.

Well with that, I guess I'll be not giving advice anymore as I don't want it to be seen as judging any of you. Some people ( like myself ) just honestly want to "help" others and make this world a better place. But maybe it's best to keep to my self and mind my own business.

I stopped a guy yesterday from paddling out and showed him where the channel was.....that particular beach has a vicious shorebreak and he'd have had no chance where he was about to paddle out from. He was appreciative....the board he had (snapped patched mini Mal) and how he carried the board (almost fell tripping on the leash while he was walking) and his general kooky demeanor encouraged me to open my mouth. I am a fan of Darwin, but not to say something seemed cruel.

Mlee2surf wrote:I couldn't resist signing up just to reply to this one! I thought you might like a females real life comment. I was actually looking for information on surfing the coast from Costa Rica, where I am now, south through Panama etc which was my original plan but I have been in Costa Rica for 4 months so it is time to go back to Australia. My other option is a 39 hour series of flights via the US (cheaper and quicker - 39 hours straight travel time - but transiting through the US ...)

I wanted to start surfing when I was 12 but had no friends doing it and when I took my sisters huge board out at the break where my Dad was a Life Saver a young adolescent male said "Chick surfer - f..k off". Although my father had taught me how to move back and forth on my finless Coolight foam board (1960's version) and I could paddle it on my knees and laying down I had no idea how to stand up and surf. From then on until I was in my 20's I watched guys surf, lay on the beach and body surfed.

I hate getting unsolicited advice. I started riding a knee board when I was 21 and yes, I probably looked awkward tying to kick (so was further back on the board than when I was paddling) however I could get more traction kicking. I remember guys telling me to move further up my board. Not so bad then as I knew I wasn't great at first. But nearly 40 years on and I was out at Chicama, Peru (now riding a SUP) when another SUPer asked if he could give me some advice. Really - I had just caught some of the longest waves, (overhead high) in my life and he has advice for me!! I had actually observed his paddle style and thought he could improve, but I wasn't about to paddle over and tell him. I have often reflected on why it makes me so annoyed and I think it is that it is an assumption not based on need. I often find it hard to accept advice gracefully because it means the other person has judged me as not good enough. Definitely, if someone is sitting in a place that is dangerous to others and obviously has no idea give advice, but don't make assumptions based on gender. They are just the first and last times that advice has been given but there have been a few in between. I usually find though, once someone sees you make a good wave their attitude changes.

Make-up and bikinis are ridiculous for surfing. I surfed with a 21 year old 'fashion surfer' on a surf cruise adventure in Lombok, Indonesia and this Instagram model surfer was all about looks. One day she was a bit burnt from surfing in bikinis the day before. She wanted to wear a T-shirt but was having trouble tying it at the back. I asked why she didn't wear a rash vest. And she said it wasn't cool - she couldn't be seen wearing one - how sad. Instead she must have to put tons of toxic sunscreen all over her body, and her skin will still age radically. I know I am older and beyond worrying about what others think but for these girls/women their sponsorship and livelihood depend on how raunchy they look in the photos. I saw one photo of her bum in the air with a G-string bikini - very off. I remember one guy saying one time - I dont want to be surfing with bums and tits in my face if they are just sitting around trying to look good.

In my 20's and 30's I surfed in the South West of Australia where the waves are powerful. There were not many female surfers until my friends kids became old enough (Taj Burrows Grom era). I was usually surfing with guys. When I moved to a remote part of South Australia (mid 2000's) there were lots of female surfers my age and younger. They had been part of a club when they were starting and had older sisters who could drive and carry the long boards on the roof. I find surfing with a group of girls very different to when there are mainly guys. I never talk much anyway, and notice some guys chat more than girls, but there is a difference that we call "testosterone in the water". I think of it as a feminine way of being, whether that is in leadership and business or sport. It is not about being as equally strong-fit and aggressive as males. Any male can access his feminine- it is about connecting with nature, kindness and compassion.

I visited Queensland in the 1990s and there were a lot of female long board riders on gentle peeling waves. I dont think many surfed the big, powerful storms. However, it has all changed now and I admire the young, fit surfers, female, male or undescribed, any culture or nationality who are respectful and share as per surfing etiquette- giving another a wave because of kindness or because they are better positioned is great. Being condescending or as a way to chat up in the line up is in my opinion not OK. And my thoughts on being bought a drink - remembering back to my teens and 20's - as far as I was concerned most guys wanted something called sex for the price of the drinks. A generalisation I know as just a few weeks ago an older male surfer offered to buy me a coconut. I bought him one the next day. We are so not used to expecting something as a gift that it is hard to think the other person doesn't want something in return.
Thanks for posting this. I have been wanting to tell this story for a while.

Epic post! Welcome and hope you stick around!

Interesting discussion. I noticed that there are some similarities between Mlee2surf's post and the original article. My guess is that when an aspiring female is in a male dominant environment, be it surfing, career, or school, she senses that some of the guys are very judgmental and therefore she needs to prove herself in order to be on the equal ground. So it becomes difficult for her to differentiate between genuine advice and unwanted criticism. Then take her outside into a open world, a small talk or a free drink can make her feel like "what do you want from me?" because, let's face it, there aren't a lot of free lunch and most everything in this world has some string attached to it. So most female is on a defense pretty much perpetually... unless she is hoping to get picked up or something. Plus just like some male surfers, some female surfers enjoy peace and quiet (relatively speaking) of being in the line up. Of course, not every female is this way and there are others with Princess Syndrome who are loaded with the entitlement. So I guess there are all kinds of women out there, but it can boil down to 1) give advice to female surfers only if you are clearly more skilled, otherwise 2) keep it as a small talk and don't chat away. In general, I personally don't mind free advice as long as the giver knows what he/she is talking about, but I imagine it's pretty annoying if someone comes up for an unsolicited advice just to talk to you because you are a female/male/celebrity, etc.

waikikikichan wrote:

Mlee2surf wrote: I often find it hard to accept advice gracefully because it means the other person has judged me as not good enough.

Well with that, I guess I'll be not giving advice anymore as I don't want it to be seen as judging any of you. Some people ( like myself ) just honestly want to "help" others and make this world a better place. But maybe it's best to keep to my self and mind my own business.

Don't stop your generosity! Sometimes people don't realize they need help... unless you are telling Big H how to cut up a chicken!

I had a female surfer give me advice. I was surfing a fast breaking left and taking off really deep. On one wave I almost made it around the last section but go taken out by whitewater probably just inches from getting past it. She said "You didn't make it." I was like all smiles "yeah!" She said "so maybe you should take off more over". I answered "Maybe I can make it next time". It was all good from my perspective. By the way I don't think I ever made it around that last section but I had fun trying.

Thanks Mlee2surf, great post

I think saltydog hits the nail on the head - if someone (male or female) is clearly making mistakes over and over or is obviously not sure, then a bit of advice may be appropriate. But ask the question first - 'I was just noticing you were nose diving, do you mind if I give you a quick tip?'. Sure most people will feel uncomfortable saying no (although they could say 'I'm fine, I've got it'); but having said 'ok', then being given that quick tip in a non patronising manner, they can't get upset.

In the sales part of my job we are told 'ask permission to sell, don't just launch straight into the sales pitch'. The psychologists tell us this is much more effective - people don't like being sold something (including helpful advice) because of the strings attached belief. You disarm this reaction by asking permission and specifying what you are going to provide (eg a quick tip).

dtc wrote:Thanks Mlee2surf, great post

I think saltydog hits the nail on the head - if someone (male or female) is clearly making mistakes over and over or is obviously not sure, then a bit of advice may be appropriate. But ask the question first - 'I was just noticing you were nose diving, do you mind if I give you a quick tip?'. Sure most people will feel uncomfortable saying no (although they could say 'I'm fine, I've got it'); but having said 'ok', then being given that quick tip in a non patronising manner, they can't get upset.

In the sales part of my job we are told 'ask permission to sell, don't just launch straight into the sales pitch'. The psychologists tell us this is much more effective - people don't like being sold something (including helpful advice) because of the strings attached belief. You disarm this reaction by asking permission and specifying what you are going to provide (eg a quick tip).

Asking for permission to offer advice is a great advice In my lineup, I often see guys giving advice to girls, but occasionally there are guys helping out other guys. This is a mostly local break where the sprit of Aloha is alive and well. I just need to time my session to avoid the crowd.

I've heard many women complain about it and I've seen it countless times. Men will extend some kind of favor, compliment, or courtesy to a woman and the woman will politely decline it. Default male response: "What a F**** B****!" The most extreme manifestation of this are the guys who catcall women with compliments and actually expect a woman to thank them for the compliment. God forbid the poor woman who actually responds with, "Thanks," and hopes to just go on her way. The communication choice for women is often A) Ignore the guy and get the default "F****** B****!" response or B) try to be nice and then have to push the weiner dog away from dry humping their arm every two minutes . Perhaps it's wise to try and avoid unconsciously assuming that most communication is a transaction unless, of course, the nature of your communication is understood by all participants as actually centering around a transaction.

As far as transactions between the sexes yeah that seems to be a cultural thing which hopefully is getting to be less and less. I was so appalled while I was in college by one of my dorm mates who asked me what to do to have sex with this specific girl. He was like "Do you think I should buy her flowers or chocolate, or take her on a date and get her drunk" "Or all of those things?" I cut him a little slack because he was from New York city. I told him to communicate basically just tell her you want to have sex. He answered back "do you think that would work?" I was like "Work? work????? Yeah that will work just exactly as it is supposed to work." he quips "Does it work for you?" I know pretty hopeless guy. So I answer "Yeah some times and sometimes not" and he answered "So what do you do when it doesn't work?" I respond " just enjoy being with them or go find another women who wants to have sex with you." He was looking at every interaction as a transaction. I know guys who justify prostitution the same way saying marriage is just like that you have to pay your wife for the sex she gives you. It's a cultural thing passed on from one misogynist to the next.

RinkyDink wrote:I'or B) try to be nice and then have to push the weiner dog away from dry humping their arm every two minutes

Interesting topic, and one I actually discussed last night with someone who was bitching about how aggressive surfers ruined the experience for him 8 years ago which lead to him no longer surfing. I have never experienced such negative and aggressive people out in our local line up so was shocked and he said "that's because you're a chick." Hmmm... well if that's the case then I'm glad I'm a chick!

Personally, I will take advice from anyone, male or female, as long as they know what they're talking about and are not creepy about it. I do not feel judged or disrespected in the least, and actually lean toward feeling the opposite, taking it as a compliment, someone wanting to take a few minutes to help me out. I am genuinely happy to hear it if I can benefit from it. If I feel they are in no position to give advice, that they are just looking for an excuse to talk to me, or that they are a creeper of some sort, I just say "cool, thanks..." forget it immediately, and move on. I don't feel pressured to stick around or be nice, and if they don't get the picture with a very short but polite "thanks" then I am free to paddle away from that person or even give them a conversation ending "have a nice day."

I'm not sure what getting upset accomplishes, and truly there is no reason to let it ruin your day or point of view of an entire gender of people who enjoy the ocean just as much as you do. I consider myself a feminist, although in a pretty loose sense, and feel that it's all pretty harmless. Men and women ARE very different, and at the same time they have equally important roles in relating to each other.

I also don't get why women would wear make up and jewelry, etc. while surfing, but that's none of my business and wasting time and energy speculating why is just dumb, in my opinion. So is commenting on how much toxic sunscreen they need to wear to offset their bare skin. Seriously, who cares? How does that make your life more difficult? In terms of bikinis, I go out there in mine (though usually with a rash guard over it) when it's warm enough and I don't feel like putting on a wetsuit. What's wrong with that exactly, and how does it affect you? And what's wrong with someone taking interest in and saying hi to someone they're attracted to out there while doing something they're both interested in? It's not a bar exactly, but it's not a funeral either.

I guess if you can pull it off there is nothing wrong with it.....