Surfing Waves

RoyStewart wrote:These substances are now suspected to be responsible for much of the rise in skin cancers.

RoyStewart wrote:Perhaps you would care to enlighten us regarding the process whereby a tumour is linked to a particular cause?

RoyStewart wrote: It does not follow that a lack of(or in this case a low) statistical correspondence between skin tumours and the chemicals in question entails the conclusion that those chemicals are therefore not cancer forming.

RoyStewart wrote:Any student of Scientific method or Logic could tell you this.

RoyStewart wrote:There is evidence that cinnamates cause cancer in rats.

RoyStewart wrote:I would suggest caution in applying commercial sunblocks to the skin.

RoyStewart wrote:One thing is certain, and that is that a natural beeswax, zinc, and coconut oil total sunblock will prevent sun damage to the skin

RoyStewart wrote:and simultaneously nourish the skin via vitamin E, with no risk at all.

RoyStewart wrote:It is safer to avoid known toxins in sunblocks.

drowningbitbybit wrote:

RoyStewart wrote:Perhaps you would care to enlighten us regarding the process whereby a tumour is linked to a particular cause?

Well, Roy, someone who knows about stuff thinks about it a bit, then he/she goes to a library and does some reading about it, then he makes a hypothesis and tests it. Then he/she analyses the results and sees whether the hypothesis holds true. Perhaps smoking and lung cancer is the best example.

Yes, quite so, that much is obvious. I was actually hoping that you might be able to delve a little deeper and actually give us the hypothesis and the test results which show that cinnimates and titanium dioxide (for example) are unrelated to cancer. I don't believe that there are any.

RoyStewart wrote: It does not follow that a lack of(or in this case a low) statistical correspondence between skin tumours and the chemicals in question entails the conclusion that those chemicals are therefore not cancer forming.

I agree. It does not. But it does have to be tested before one can make statements regarding the carcinogenecity of a compound. The effect of the sun has very much been proven to 'cause' skin cancer.

Titanium has been proven to be carcinogenic. So have the cinnamates. The sun can cause skin cancer. I did not attempt to say otherwise.

RoyStewart wrote:Any student of Scientific method or Logic could tell you this.

Any idiot can make nice little phrases up that will impress the impressiobable. Dont tell me about scientific method or logic. I seriously outqualify you here. Stick to your nice wooden boards.

It occurs to me that if you are well qualified in science, then you would theoretically be an ideal partner for a discussion of scientific method. Please do not assume that the building of wooden boards exludes one from academic pursuits, I can assure you that my training equips me well for a discussion of scientific method.

RoyStewart wrote:There is evidence that cinnamates cause cancer in rats.

And none whatsoever that it causes cancer in humans. Im not saying it doesnt, but the sun definitely does.

You should really qualify this statement by saying that there is no evidence that you are presently aware of regarding the relationship between cinnamates and cancer. Yes, and as you say, the sun can cause cancer.

RoyStewart wrote:One thing is certain, and that is that a natural beeswax, zinc, and coconut oil total sunblock will prevent sun damage to the skin

Im interested to know where you've found studies that show bees wax etc can completely block UVA and B rays. And why are you obsessed with zinc? It has many of the same properties as titanium. It protects from the sun (a good thing) but is still one of those scary chemicals...
And how will you know that these natural compounds are giving you protection until its too late?

You are jumping to conclusions . . . I did not say that beeswax blocks UVA. The beeswax is there to bind the zinc oxide together in a paste. Zinc is used by the body (that's why we eat zinc rich foods and zinc supplements) Titanium is toxic to the body. They are different elements which share some (but not all) of their physical properties.
Zinc based sunblocks keep the sun out by completely covering the skin with an opaque layer. The sun cannot penetrate this. Surely you have seen zinc based sunblocks?

RoyStewart wrote:It is safer to avoid known toxins in sunblocks.

But much much safer to avoid UVA and UVB.

It is safer to avoid known toxins in sunblocks and also to avoid UVA and UVB! Your statement assumes that if one avoids known toxins in a sunblock then one cannot therefore avoid UVA and UVB. This is clearly not necessarily the case. You have made an error here.

I'm going back to the lab now to examine whether exposure of feet to a combination of sea water and wood leads to cranial shrinkage and hyperloquacity.

PapaWoolacombe wrote:ffs everything is carcogenic or bad for you if you have too much of it.. get a grip...