Surfing Waves

*Disclaimer, this is a rant about how I feel on this subject. It is not correct or wrong. It is debatable and should be discussed. AND I am not trying to insult or hurt Benji .*

Recently there's been a few posting about SUP's ( Stand Up Paddle boarding ). It's a great water activity, good for working out, supplementing other forms of surf riding. I did various SUP competitions in Hawaii and Japan. SUP's in some ways have kept the surf board building industry afloat. SUP's are here to stay.

That said....... This is a SURFing forum. NOT a STAND UP PADDLE BOARDing forum. Yes, we get the miss-placed Longboard Skateboard questions now and then. Maybe even a Bodyboarding, Air mat or even some electronic powered form of wave riding. They pop up and then disappear, we really don't discuss much about them. But what if someone wants to discuss SUP's ? What if someone doesn't want to hear about SUP's ? Fine you might say , "just do not click on the category", right ? If you don't like shortboards, then don't click on "for Shortboarders only". But for SUP's there isn't a category other than general Surf Chat for questions to go.

So should there be a "for Stand Up Paddle Boarders only" category made ? I feel there are many forums dedicated to SUP's already and those seeking information or have questions can go there.

We already have to explain why newbies shouldn't learn on a 6'0" shortboard. Now it seems we have to caution people not to start out on a 29 to 32 inch wide by 4-5 inch thick railed monster with a 20 foot kill radius. Getting mowed over by a newbie on a 9 foot sponge board with soft rails is bad enough. I don't want to hear some newbie on the web say that they heard it was okay to learn to surf on a SUP FROM this forum.

I ask that we keep this forum about Surf Boarding ( which the term in itself is debatable ).

But since If you can't beat, then join'em. Here's the next wave that's coming. A video from last week in Waikiki at the Pop's Ahchoy contest, which including Longboarding, SUP, Tandem, Pet, Chair surfing and........AIR Foil SUP

check out the move at the 4:30 mark !

Titus has such a great longboard surfing style I love to watch him, he is smooth and efficient and always in the right place doing the right maneuver, but lately he has only been SUPing when I see him and now foiling although this is the first I have seen of him on a foil SUP. Not nearly as good SUPing or SUPfoiling but then he just started the SUPfoil thing and who knows he may have gotten better at SUP too but I haven't seen him in the water for a couple years. As far as SUPing goes I will go along with whatever everyone else wants since it matters little to me. Lots of the guys I know such as Titus who is a few years younger than me but most of the surfers I know from way back when at least have an SUP besides other boards although there is one guy I know who refuses to SUP regardless that he has problems which might make SUPing the best choice, he just hates it and finally begrudgingly got a funboard (a diehard shortboarder). So I realize someday I may get to that point too so whatever. Wave greedy beginners on SUPs....OH NO! Oh well even the best SUPers can't handle the surf I usually go out in (although not so much lately due to lack of surf)

Fair point of view to query, although this website is called surfing-waves not surfboarding waves.. and I do the former and post about the former. I was as much of a sup hater as the next guy after one smashed in to my brand new board from Bali and crushed it but given my circumstances it was the only thing I could do to still stay in the water. I guess that makes me one of the few that actually understands surfing etiquette as a sup'r and if anything I've had shortboarders give me respect for being out in solid conditions and not doing anything to jeopardise their safety.
I did actually join a sup forum but largely only post about them here because you guys are like my surfing family and have seen my posts from a complete newbie 3-4 years ago to custom 5'9 to now short-board style sups. I only post about absolute froth for catching waves as it's like learning to surf all over again and making that first drop, then first turn, then first string of turns, then going shorter and bigger waves etc.
I thought my post on tail attachments was pretty good and informative- not limited to just surfboards?

I'm happy with whatever you guys decide, I just find it personally fascinating about the rails and sup movement compared to surfing as their both becoming closer aligned each year and generally just want to share the knowledge.

I'm sure I'll get back to posting about surfboards again, I mean I only used my 5'9 three times before my archillies snapped and also have a 6'4 step up that I've never used but am a bit limited until then.
I can also answer questions about 32 vs 29" width with some wisdom now so I could be an addded asset to the knowledge base of this site

Benji, thanks and good to hear from you. I know this SUP time is just temporary, and I hope you be back on your stomach paddling into some big drops

benjl wrote:Fair point of view to query, although this website is called surfing-waves not surfboarding waves..

That's the point I'm trying to bring up. Is SUPing going to be considered under the "surfing-waves" banner ? Then in addition to "for Shortboarders Only", "Longboarders Only", we'll need category for "Stand Up Paddle Boarders Only", Fin-less ( paipo-Alaia ), Bodysurfing, Bodyboarding, Air-Mat, Air-Foil, Electric, and on and on......... There needs to be some control, some limit. Or maybe " Alternative wave riding vehicles " that those boards that don't fit under Short or Long have a home to go to ?

benjl wrote:I can also answer questions about 32 vs 29" width with some wisdom now so I could be an addded asset to the knowledge base of this site.

Not you Benji, but another person ( actually there's two ) was asking about learning on a SUP. To me if you can't surf a surfboard ( of which you can ) , you shouldn't be out in the surf with a SUP. It's hard enough for newbies to hold on to a 8 foot sponge Wavestorm and having the wave rip it out of there hands, now imagine them walking out a 29" x 4" rail that their finger tips barely scratch the water when they lay down on it ?

Me I would just leave the forum as is and refer the oddities , foil SUP, electro etc to their own forums of which there are plenty.
Bodyboarding has been here since day one, so it stays regardless of there being forums for them.

Questions of etiquette and general advice, yes, for all as safety. But please invite the oddities to go elsewhere. biased YES I am and I have a SUP!

The question that seems to be on the table is whether stand up paddle boarding and prone surfing are essentially the same thing. This is an important distinction because it affects the way we think about surf spots. What is a surf spot exactly? Who belongs there? The range of a SUP rider is different from that of a prone surfer. That makes a SUP rider's relationship to a surf spot different from a prone surfer's. I see SUP riders as wanting/insisting to be legitimized as members of prone surfing lineups. The question is whether the two types can coexist in a lineup. I don't think they can unless the rules of etiquette can be reworked to accommodate both types of board riders. I do think, however, that if the number of SUP riders continue to climb (I think they will because it's way easier to SUP), then prone surfers might just have to become SUP riders or limit themselves to surfing shorepound.

It's not easier to SUP.

Hey rinky- some valid questions there. As the only sup'r out on my last 4 surfs I do feel a bit precarious being at predominantly surfboard breaks. I personally try to find my own peaks and stay away from the surfers but that is difficult when it only breaks in one place like my reef surf last Friday. Coming from surfing I understand the etiquette and play fairly- but you're right that as more sup's join the line up the ettiquette rules might need to change as many people are not as conscious as myself. Sups do have a wider range of wave options (which a lot of sup'rs exploit) and I think you'll see more and more surfers slowly turning to sup as it increases your wave count and encourages going out, even when the conditions are not perfect. The guy I brought my last board off was 75 and said he'd used it in double over head surf conditions, in fact, he laughed at me When I said I wasn't sure if I was ready for a board of his volume yet.
The problem with the sup trend is that like surfboards, people are going lower and lower in volume and shorter and shorter. 'Sup friendly' breaks are being blurred with pure traditional surf breaks ie tom Carroll supping teahoupu. I was out with a dude on Monday who was surfing an 81l sup. He was 85kg which means riding a ratio of less than 1:1 litre of volume to weight. These boards sit so low in the water they would end up just sitting at the same take off, if not closer in than a guy on a 9 or 10ft longboard.

As a side note, sup is not easier.. just like surfing it takes a long time to build up the muscle memory, balance and skills to even stand on one- especially if choppy and in rolling seas. Add to that actually being able to surf one and read / take off on waves and then start trying to turn one. It would be no different to a newbie starting on a 9ft log foamie who doesn't know how to paddle, pop up etc. The sup does provide a wider platform to start on, especially for flat water but when it comes to surfing they're a whole different ball game. Think of how many surfers complain of pearling and not being able to turn a 9'x22 board (or shorter), try a 10-11'x30 board that weighs 2-3x the weight

Also consider how many beginners want to get a shortboard because they can't get out through the surf on a longboard. Then imagine a huge longboard and holding a paddle while you go out, can't turn turtle on that or if you do you have to chuck the paddle. Anyway there will be certain breaks where not many SUPers go out (like the one I usually surf)

oldmansurfer wrote: Then imagine a huge longboard and holding a paddle while you go out, can't turn turtle on that or if you do you have to chuck the paddle. Anyway there will be certain breaks where not many SUPers go out (like the one I usually surf)

I'm not worried about beginners with a SUP and a PADDLE. The wave and the pack will take care of them and send them back to shore. I'm more worried about a newbie with a SUP and NO PADDLE. "Well I heard a wide board is more stable to learn on. " .........great.

I created the post to debate whether SUP's have a place here on this forum, NOT whether they have a place in surfing. SUP's at your own local breaks will work themselves out either by the locals or government or the wave itself.

That is true, we digress

Ok so where do you draw the line- here is the sunova speed which essentially a longboard shape and with sizes as low as 7'3 x 24 x 3 3/8 it's basically a surfable funboard without a paddle.
It would have less volume than big h's new longboard which at my weight, I could probably paddle it

I guess there's also a lot of common ground between the two genres such as bottom concaves, rockers, tail designs and constructions

If anything, it's Tomo inspired with parallel rails, square nose and channels

The Arrow not the Indian right ? If someone wants to prone paddle a SUP into a wave, that's up to them. ( but let's see you try it without a rashguard and see how you nipples and forearms survive the deckpad )
I hang five on a 6'4" Fish if I don't have a proper longboard. Guys do "airs" on a longboard. Guys here use 9'6" Waimea gun / Rhino chasers to surf 5-6 foot waves here in Japan ( why ? I don't know ) . It's not about what you ride, but how you ride it. Ride what you want, but be safe. So again, I am not for newbie/beginners who can not control their board to be on a SUP.
But what is a SUP ? It used to be a longer and wider longboard ( with a deck pad ). But now, as you mentioned, designs are getting shorter and shorter. But look at where the SUP or Waikiki beach boy style surfing began.......

This is Pops Ah Choy back in the 70's. There were no SUP's back then. Only 12 foot Waikiki rental boards.


This is Bobby Ahchoy. If you watched Wave Warriors 3, you seen him standing on his board taken photos of tourist surfing with a Non-waterproof camera. Here he is competing in the 1st ever SUP contest in Waikiki ( He is using my NSP 11'0" longboard by the way ).

What is the difference between a beginner going out with an SUP and an old pink Waikiki log?

surfing on a SUP is still surfing.
the forum can handle the traffic
just no flatwater topics

oldmansurfer wrote:What is the difference between a beginner going out with an SUP and an old pink Waikiki log?

You couldn't go to your local sporting goods store or big box member's club ( Costco ) and buy a 12' Waikiki rental board, strap it to the family car and head to the nearest beach. The Waikiki rental board also comes complete with supervising Waterman.

oldmansurfer wrote:It's not easier to SUP.

I have SUPed once on a lake so I don't really know how difficult or easy it is.

I just want to clarify that I'm fine with SUP riders. It's all good. As far as I'm concerned, it just means that I have to get better at finding uncrowded surf. I can do that. As far as the forum is concerned, I don't really mind what topics are put up for discussion.

If you had boat wakes to navigate over then you might understand. It's pretty easy to paddle a surfboard in a lake too.