Question about Dropping-In and Other Right of Way Rules

[audiobahn1000]

So I know that Waikiki is pretty much no-mans surfing land, but I am still curious as to how the official rules would apply and who technically has right of way. Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems the rule of not dropping in on others is mostly applicable in instances where you're surfing laterally across the wave, such as Pipeline, and thus cutting in front of someone essentially puts you in their surfing path creating a risk of collision.

However, in the south end of the island, the waves dont seem to really curl to any one direction with any level of speed when the surf is more mellow, thus everyone in the lineup more or less just ques up in the middle of where they think the wave will generate and then it's a drag race of 10 dudes trying to mount the wave. In that case, everyone is surfing straight, thus theoretically no one should be crossing paths, and so it's not really dropping in if you mount a wave with someone already on it as long as you do so far enough to the side of them that you wont hit them, and you dont cross your path with theirs. Is that correct?

My understanding of surfing in slower waves that dont have fast curls is more or less like this:

-If you're paddling to catch a wave and someone is already on it, you have to yield to the guy on the wave.
-If you're on the wave and someone in front of you is paddling to catch the wave, they have to yield to you.
-If multiple people are paddling to catch the same wave and they are all in close proximity, first to feet has priority. Everyone else can still catch the wave, but only if they do so in a manner that wont put themselves at risk of collision with someone who was first to feet before them.

Is my understanding correct?

[jaffa1949]

Do you really want to see how that argument flows when you " share" awave with a native Hawaiian or even more so, one of his kids?

[oldmansurfer]

The rules change from break to break. On relatively uncrowded breaks most often if you catch any wave that another is on then you may run into issues with the other surfers. At some breaks certain individuals feel they have the right to any waves they want and there is an established pecking order where these individuals are the ones who get first choice at the waves and everyone else needs to give way to them. It's good to figure out who the locals are and find out what the rules of the break are. I surf alone mostly so avoid most of that but I try not to ever drop in on myself

[waikikikichan]

So I know that Waikiki is pretty much no-mans surfing land,

So before I give you an earful, since you're talking about my home break ........ WHO told you or WHERE did you read that "Waikiki is pretty much no-man's surfing land" ? ?
I'm not blaming you, I blame whoever told you. There's no bad students, only bad teachers.

[audiobahn1000]

So I know that Waikiki is pretty much no-mans surfing land,

So before I give you an earful, since you're talking about my home break ........ WHO told you or WHERE did you read that "Waikiki is pretty much no-man's surfing land" ? ?
I'm not blaming you, I blame whoever told you. There's no bad students, only bad teachers.

Random surf school teachers in the water. One of the teachers told me that yesterday when I asked him the same question I posted on here. He said that there are so many people, especially tourists on rented surfboards with no experience, that everyone more or less just does whatever they want and there is no formal order to anything most of the time. While my experience in Waikiki is limited, I've been in the water almost everyday for the last two weeks at Pops, Threes and Fours and I rarely see anyone showing much caution or care to giving priority to anyone (even though we all should). Just yesterday I saw a girl cut straight across in front of a curling wave with almost 10 people on it. Her actions caused three people to have to bail to avoid running her over. I see similar stuff like that nearly everyday I am out there. I've also asked almost 10 random surfers what the "rules of the road" are out there, and no one really seemed to know.

My general mentality in Waikiki is 1. Dont hit anyone. 2. Try not to get in anyone's way who's already on the wave. 3. Try not to piss anyone off. 4. Better to give someone else the wave than take it. I've just stuck with that and so far it's worked out pretty good. No one's said anything to me about anything so far. However, I'd still like to know how things are supposed to work, which is why I asked.

[waikikikichan]

However, in the south end of the island, the waves don't seem to really curl to any one direction with any level of speed when the surf is more mellow, thus everyone in the lineup more or less just ques up in the middle of where they think the wave will generate and then it's a drag race of 10 dudes trying to mount the wave.

From your perspective, maybe. Usually waves break from the center and spread out to the Left and Right. Of course it depends on the reef, sand bottom, etc. Yes, there are Close Out / clean up sets where the wave is just dumping down from shoulder to shoulder.

To the Left is Queens. In the Middle is Canoes and top Right is Pops, Three's, Fours. Notice the ocean's energy hits the reefs and creates "triangles". So the waves spread out right and left. If it didn't "curl to any one direction", it would look more like "squares".

This is me at Canoes going Right. People on the inside are facing a wall of whitewater after the wave has "given up" it's energy.

This is "Toots" sitting on the nose at Queen's. The rider behind is in the soup.

So definitely waves break right and left at Waikiki ( and at most waves around the world )

[waikikikichan]

I've also asked almost 10 random surfers what the "rules of the road" are out there, and no one really seemed to know.

"Birds of a feather flock together" so meaning surfers of like wise abilities are usually in the same area of a break. So question, did you paddle out to heavy local at the top of the peak and ask him what the rules were ? Or you just asked the 10 random surfers around you in the inside ?

[waikikikichan]

My general mentality in Waikiki is 1. Dont hit anyone. 2. Try not to get in anyone's way who's already on the wave. 3. Try not to piss anyone off. 4. Better to give someone else the wave than take it. I've just stuck with that and so far it's worked out pretty good. No one's said anything to me about anything so far. However, I'd still like to know how things are supposed to work, which is why I asked.

First of please don't feel I'm jumping on you or putting you down. I'm trying to help you understand the way things are in Waikiki, especially since one day I might come in contact with you ( literally ).

1) Don't hit anyone - How will you go about doing that ? Can you turn your board on a dime ? Can you tell the wave to let you go out of it's grasp as it's pushing you right into a pack of people ?
2) Try not to get in anyone's way who's already on the wave - Hawaiian's use a technique called a "fade-turn", where they paddle left but go right all of a sudden. How will you know which way a surfers going until he's already in your face ? From the above photos, you might notice that the "Triangles" intersect or combine. What will you do in those situations ?
3) Try not to piss anyone off - No one goes out with the intention of get into a fight. But trust me, showing up with a inflatable SUP at Queen's is not a good idea. Most likely you don't have the skills or knowledge to take off from the peak, so you will be dropping in, thus you will be pissing off people.

I can't count how many people said to me, "well, I tried to get out of you way" or "I tried my best". Dings, cuts , bruises and broken leg all from people who TRYed to not hit, get in the way or piss off anyone.

Fact is you WILL hit someone ( and someone will hit you ). It's tricky to surf at a reef break sometimes, so learn the motion of the ocean and how winds and tides effect the break. When you do piss off someone, say you are SORRY. Do Not tell them "well, I heard the rules are blah, blah, blah". That will piss them off more. Just say sorry, offer to pay for damages, and go in or to another break.

[Tudeo]

IMG_8686.JPG

This is "Toots" sitting on the nose at Queen's. The rider behind is in the soup.

If the guy 'in the soup' gives it one pump, he's in the clean face, if it wasn't for Toots sitting there..

I know this is a tricky situation because many surfers in this (soup) position miss the skills to make the wave. But if the guy is skilled, Toots should exit the wave, right? Even though it would be a shame because he's sitting so comfortable, it seems

[waikikikichan]

In some instances, one picture doesn't tell the whole story. I can tell you for certain 100% that Toots did not drop in on the guy who's in the soup. Toots always sits farthest out and to the left at this dominant right break. Guys get on after he establishes himself on the wave.
I myself and taken off deeper, gone up and around guys on the outside of me, get to the racy inside ( where the photo is of ), and have those guys think they have priority just because "now" I'm on the outside of them.
That's at Queens which is a fade left go right "L" shaped reef. Canoes is even more crazy as the reefs combine and run into each other ( as do the surfers ).

[Millsy82]

My local seems to be a free for all at times, usually after a quiet spell when there is not too many waves combi g in its a free for all, days like yesterday it's not too bad as there were plenty of good waves coming.

What I tend to do is keep an eye on those that drop in or try to drop in on me and I am not too worried about dropping in on them, those that don't I don't even try for the same waves, and for those that give me respect out on the water I will let them get the best waves as usually they are a lot better than me.

The time I've gotten in the way a few times is when paddling out again. I try to figure out what the wave is doing and if I can get in front or if I should try and go behind them and I have got it wrong a few times.

[jaffa1949]

Your etiquette sound pretty good. Don't try to paddle for the shoulder, a paddler cannot paddle faster than someone riding to avoid collision. Either stay still in a safe position and allow the surfer go around or even paddle behind where they are going to be into the white water, take it on the head.

Judge this by watching the common lines the riders take and choose where you go.

Even the best of us still get caught.

[oldmansurfer]

Most likely at the break you surf it is difficult to tell what to do when paddling out. But if you make a mistake then learn from it. I think the most sensible thing to do when paddling out is to try to get outside of the break as soon as possible and if the break is coming straight in to a beach that is usually paddling at a 45 degree angle from straight out. But look where all the surfers are and try not to paddle in front of them. If you are inside of them paddle sideways to get out of their way first then go out. It may take you longer but it will be safer for everyone.

[audiobahn1000]

I went to Queens yesterday since waikikikichan mentioned it and that's where the largest waves of the day were in that area. It seemed quite relaxed out there. Nearly everyone out there was a tourist and everyone was rolling three at a time, if not more. I dont actually use an iSUP to surf with, I use a longboard. I only took the iSUP out a few times before I learned it sucks for standup paddle surfing.

I also learned a bit of a trick sitting around at Queens. I found that after a lull it's often best to let the first wave pass which seems to clear about 50% of the people in the lineup, and then catch the 2nd which is often larger and has less people since most surfers seem to like to take off on the first wave in a set. Anyway, that seems like a good compromise. Let others go first and also help myself by clearing out some of the people before taking my turn so I have more room.

I agree that showing respect and just apologizing when needed is usually the best approach.

[RinkyDink]

I also learned a bit of a trick sitting around at Queens. I found that after a lull it's often best to let the first wave pass which seems to clear about 50% of the people in the lineup, and then catch the 2nd which is often larger and has less people since most surfers seem to like to take off on the first wave in a set. Anyway, that seems like a good compromise. Let others go first and also help myself by clearing out some of the people before taking my turn so I have more room.

I use the same trick, but there is one drawback to it. The mass of people who take off and blow the first or second wave will often be in your way when you take off on your wave. One way to blow your concentration during your takeoff is having to deal with the three people out in front of your wave. You want to do an angled takeoff and get moving down the face of the wave quickly, but there are two surfers in your path so you have to go straight and then bottom turn. So you go straight, but now the pocket of the wave has moved off down the line and you're stuck with a closed out section. So it goes.

[waikikikichan]

I went to Queens yesterday since waikikikichan mentioned it

I mentioned it more as a "warning", NOT a recommendation. Queen's is for the more advanced surfers. And since you have a problem with Pearling ( digging the nose ) and catching waves, please learn and get your skills up at Canoes first. Canoes breaks fast then slows down, so it's good for beginners to catch waves and end their ride. Queen's is opposite, it breaks slow ( so a lot of fade and set-up ) then speeds up on the inside. It hard to "get off" a wave once you get on. So if you get burned ( or burn some one ), you get straightened out for a long time.

[audiobahn1000]

I went to Queens yesterday since waikikikichan mentioned it

I mentioned it more as a "warning", NOT a recommendation. Queen's is for the more advanced surfers. And since you have a problem with Pearling ( digging the nose ) and catching waves, please learn and get your skills up at Canoes first. Canoes breaks fast then slows down, so it's good for beginners to catch waves and end their ride. Queen's is opposite, it breaks slow ( so a lot of fade and set-up ) then speeds up on the inside. It hard to "get off" a wave once you get on. So if you get burned ( or burn some one ), you get straightened out for a long time.

Good to know, thanks. I have rode in several waves at Queens from the lineup all the way to shore (or close to it) and dident find it much harder than Canoes, but the largest I've tried is probably 4'. I do typically spend more time at Canoes though so I'll continue sticking with that for the most part. I am not sure what you mean by your last sentence.

I've been trying to focus on maximizing take off speed and standing up slightly sooner, and that may be helping. I dident pearl at all yesterday, but the waves were also only 2-3' so I'll have to wait until they are larger to see if my changes had any actual effect.

[waikikikichan]

So if you get burned ( or burn some one ), you get straightened out for a long time.

I am not sure what you mean by your last sentence.

Getting "straightened out" means you are forced to just go straight.
You can't go right, because the kook cut you off and you had to turn down.
You can't go left, Because the curl is on your ear.
You can't kick out either way, Because the whitewater is too high to climb.
You can't stall and slam the tail down, because the wave was just tumble you and your board.
All you CAN do is keep going straight to the wave ends ( either standing or prone ). Meaning a far paddle back.

[Big H]

Hawaiian's use a technique called a "fade-turn", where they paddle left but go right all of a sudden. How will you know which way a surfers going until he's already in your face ?

We do takeoff fades here too....occasionally because it is more effective to catch the wave this way but more often in a crowded lineup its done to be "deeper" and is a nasty way to snake and turn a drop in into "your" wave, pretending to ride the wave one way then changing direction.....only works where waves break both ways depending on that particular wave and it is plausible that you really were going to ride the wave as a right but then ride it left. There was a guy who was taking every wave he could a few weeks ago, burning people left and right. I burned him three times in a row doing this which is just as well as he backpaddled me each time trying to snake. This ran him off to the next peak and the rest of us were able to relax a bit and went back to taking turns again.