Surfing Waves

This is going to be a taboo touchy subject we rather dont think off. But honestly i see all these surfspots being leased or bought so that you cant surf there except the one who is priviliged to. aint that wrong? you see all those natives poor looking at a gate where only the white man is allowed to go bikini part and surf.
Im really ashamed when i see those pictures.

what is your opinion in this situation????????????

haiti is one of those examples.



and meanwhile we are enjoying the surf and bikinis
this makes me puke damnit

I am clueless to be honest.

Dont know of any gated or private surf spots.

Except maybe slater's wave pool!!

Would like to be enlightened. The pictures you show present a terrying contrast between the quality of peoples lives and the distribution of wealth. Not sure that its a surfing issue tho.

It's a horrible situation worldwide and I'm glad you brought it up.

With the rapid growth of human population, all resources will come under pressure with access favoring the wealthy. Food, water, energy, healthcare, clean air, open space, surf breaks and everything else of value will be affected.

So, what to do?

Get involved in the local political process. Pick one one issue that you deeply care about, find out what governmental agency has jurisdiction, and start a campaign to bring change. Fifth grade students at my school were upset when a driver nearly killed a little boy who was walking along a road without sidewalks. They invited the mayor to their classroom and read essays with statistics about the safety of streets with sidewalks vs those without them. Our local paper picked up the story and it became a thing on social media. When the dust settled, Napa public works built a sidewalk, an extra street light, and a new school zone speed limit.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke

It isn't the western surfers fault. It is the government of the surf destinations fault. Lots of countries are stratified, they have very rich and very poor people and not much in between. The rich enslave the poor.

The issue of distribution of wealth is a big one, and increasingly so. Countries where this leads to poverty as in the shown example typically have highly corrupt governments, a lack of attention to human rights and a lack of democracy. Tourist staying away will not make that better.

But honestly i see all these surfspots being leased or bought so that you cant surf there except the one who is priviliged to.

Can you share a few examples of "all these surfspots being leased or bought "? I ask as I don't know any.

This is rather the about the access to the coast line or a lack thereof for recreational purposes including but not limited to surfing. I can't think of any particular places that drastic but this reminds of some of the private beach resorts in less developed countries. The local infrastructure needs the tourists for income yet that is possibly making the coastline unaccessible to the locals. This seems largely due to the local government allowing this to happen.

Meanwhile, there are enough privately owned beaches even in southern California. Some have guards posted on the beach to make sure general public would dare not step foot on their precious multimillion dollar beach community properties. General public here doesn't look as desolate as those in the photo above, but I find it quite unfair. In order for that to change, either the local government or the residents of exclusive beach communities or both need to take initiative. In the global sense, that is with local governments and the wealthy beachgoers. The problem is the local governments are often corrupted and majority of beachgoers are casual visitors without deep physical or emotional association with the ocean; i.e. non surfers. We surfers are already blamed for consuming excess amount of petroleum products and polluting air with VOC as well as forever immature and irresponsible (yet people want to imitate us by purchasing surfing lifestyle clothing etc. go figure.) I refuse to take other blames that are uncalled for.

saltydog wrote:This is rather the about the access to the coast line or a lack thereof for recreational purposes including but not limited to surfing. I can't think of any particular places that drastic but this reminds of some of the private beach resorts in less developed countries. The local infrastructure needs the tourists for income yet that is possibly making the coastline unaccessible to the locals. This seems largely due to the local government allowing this to happen.

Meanwhile, there are enough privately owned beaches even in southern California. Some have guards posted on the beach to make sure general public would dare not step foot on their precious multimillion dollar beach community properties. General public here doesn't look as desolate as those in the photo above, but I find it quite unfair. In order for that to change, either the local government or the residents of exclusive beach communities or both need to take initiative. In the global sense, that is with local governments and the wealthy beachgoers. The problem is the local governments are often corrupted and majority of beachgoers are casual visitors without deep physical or emotional association with the ocean; i.e. non surfers. We surfers are already blamed for consuming excess amount of petroleum products and polluting air with VOC as well as forever immature and irresponsible (yet people want to imitate us by purchasing surfing lifestyle clothing etc. go figure.) I refuse to take other blames that are uncalled for.

In morocco we had this beach in assilah called tahadart. and a brit bought that property and slowly starting to make it his own place. little did he know that he was doing that illegaly. in moroccan law the beach is for everybody. so buying it is a scam. however the brit got his money back from ben issa(the president of assillah) they broke his house and made it a beach again.

im really happy with that. i can go to every beach in morocco.

Oldie wrote:The issue of distribution of wealth is a big one, and increasingly so. Countries where this leads to poverty as in the shown example typically have highly corrupt governments, a lack of attention to human rights and a lack of democracy. Tourist staying away will not make that better.

But honestly i see all these surfspots being leased or bought so that you cant surf there except the one who is priviliged to.

Can you share a few examples of "all these surfspots being leased or bought "? I ask as I don't know any.

oldie the examples i got were from belgium tv where they were visiting all the islands that were hit by various cyclones such as katrina. many of those islands looked poor and then you had a quarantained zone a seperated one bought by the brits ages ago. no haitian is allowed there unless he cleans there. and there were surf and parties and all that.
those places go by a nice name(resort). but they are not resort . you better call it source cause that is where most of their sources are.

also there were nongate places where the haitians could walk but were not allowed to sell there nor fish there. the only ones who were allowed to do so were the western dudes who had a licence to. according to the doc it was a licence a haitian couldnt get. and lovely how i saw some retired people chilling on the yacht.

the propaganda of the french that they are helping the children of haiti by giving them rise. why dont we give their land back? one of those haitians were interviewed and they all allowed the west to mix up . all they ask for is their country back. we all say it is theirs but you know it is not.
It is ruled by the spain french and the US.

LIVING CONDITIONS

The poverty of Haiti, one of the thirty poorest countries in the world, is reflected in the health statistics of its population. The infant mortality rate is the highest in the Americas, and life expectancy, at approximately fifty-six years, is the lowest in the Caribbean. Malnutrition is widespread, especially among the young and the poor. About 70 percent of the population lives in rural areas, although this has been changing in recent years.

The French debt of 1838 has kept the haitians poor for the rest of its existence. many small islands are old forts and ceased cause they couldnt pay out the debts because of the so called interests

The Haitian governments were extremely anxious to be recognized by France and the Europeans. But France would not recognize Haiti unless indemnities were paid for lands of former slave owners taken over after the revolution. Finally, in 1838 President Boyer of Haiti accepted a 150 million franc debt to pay this indemnity. This debt plagued the economy of Haiti for over 80 years and was not finally paid until 1922. In the meantime Haiti paid many times over 150 million francs in interest on this debt. It is difficult to measure the incredible harm which this did to the Haitian economy, but by the most conservative measures it was extremely significant.

the documentary showed the dominican republic as well. and even there were some places still made specially for the west.
even tho they paid their so called debts some islands are still not given back because after the french the US occupied it when the marines came in 1915-1938. this was considered ended officially in 1946.


occupation after occupatien back to back. this is just one example. but we were talking about surfing
nowadays haiti you have places where only french spaniards and westerners are allowed in. going outside the gate is allowed but your own risk. they say the haitians are dangerous DUH. they are poor. you can google it. the locals are not allowed there. you can even rent your wave LOL. no really your water. but it is so big and it is the main source for food and such.
all those islands in the distance of haiti suffer the very same. but who are we? i dont blame you. it is the government.

even the non resorts where the haitians live are leased or rented. you can look for websites. but the haitians are not allowed to live or fish there(it is their country)

i find it really sad.
i just wish i recorded the documentary. just to prove my point.

saltydog wrote:This is rather the about the access to the coast line or a lack thereof for recreational purposes including but not limited to surfing. I can't think of any particular places that drastic but this reminds of some of the private beach resorts in less developed countries. The local infrastructure needs the tourists for income yet that is possibly making the coastline unaccessible to the locals. This seems largely due to the local government allowing this to happen.

Meanwhile, there are enough privately owned beaches even in southern California. Some have guards posted on the beach to make sure general public would dare not step foot on their precious multimillion dollar beach community properties. General public here doesn't look as desolate as those in the photo above, but I find it quite unfair. In order for that to change, either the local government or the residents of exclusive beach communities or both need to take initiative. In the global sense, that is with local governments and the wealthy beachgoers. The problem is the local governments are often corrupted and majority of beachgoers are casual visitors without deep physical or emotional association with the ocean; i.e. non surfers. We surfers are already blamed for consuming excess amount of petroleum products and polluting air with VOC as well as forever immature and irresponsible (yet people want to imitate us by purchasing surfing lifestyle clothing etc. go figure.) I refuse to take other blames that are uncalled for.

i have sympathy for your text. surfers are blames. skaters are blamed for destroying ground and ledges. but you see that is life. things break. we drive cars as well. that is not good as well. people can exagerate.

forever immature hmmmmm. i see where your coming from. my family thinks that of me as well for skating. meanwhile they are fat and go cafe. and im lean and have good cardio. they look down on me. and sometimes when i look at them and im sorry to be the arrogant ess here. but i look down on them. surfing is great and non violent. it is good and it does not polute the sea LOL
yeah how bout our poop and fishpoop and the chemicals etcetera. surfers would only form a mustard seed of the problem.

my opinion and also a compliment to you
you are not immature. you are healthy and smart to maintain your health.
my mother always said a man stays a child. but she says thats good about a man. i know a dude hyped about bonsai trees and cutting them all day. (many bonsai trees)
man is man. we try to get better in something even tho we may never reach that top. but the progression in it makes us happy and childish. not immature. it strokes our ego and makes us go forth. kinda like self obtained and made energy.

if you dont do what you do you gonna be that dude in the cafe drinking all day and watching news and being rasist or political and be the simple man.

sometimes i think silently they are jeoulouss

fromsk82surf wrote:surfing is great and non violent. it is good and it does not polute the sea

You have not even stood up on a surfboard, and are telling everyone about a sport/lifestyle you have not done yet ? Yes, surfing IS great. But trust me, it can get very violent. There isn't much hassling for waves and dropping in on during Kelly Slater Pro surfer PS4 games. The real world is quite different. It always was violent, especially when kooks/half goods think they "deserve" to be surfing this certain wave.

You still haven't learned much in the way of actual surfing, but you seem to have studied/research about surfboards. Then if you did, you would have found out surfboards/surfboard making produces a lot of bad chemicals and waste. Surfboards are primarily made from petroleum based products. Surfboards are not easy to recycle, what do you do with them after they snap/break in two ?

waikikikichan wrote:

fromsk82surf wrote:surfing is great and non violent. it is good and it does not polute the sea

You have not even stood up on a surfboard, and are telling everyone about a sport/lifestyle you have not done yet ? Yes, surfing IS great. But trust me, it can get very violent. There isn't much hassling for waves and dropping in on during Kelly Slater Pro surfer PS4 games. The real world is quite different. It always was violent, especially when kooks/half goods think they "deserve" to be surfing this certain wave.

You still haven't learned much in the way of actual surfing, but you seem to have studied/research about surfboards. Then if you did, you would have found out surfboards/surfboard making produces a lot of bad chemicals and waste. Surfboards are primarily made from petroleum based products. Surfboards are not easy to recycle, what do you do with them after they snap/break in two ?

i do not know why you have to bring that up again (the you are noob thing) surely a board has chemicals. but so are tyres and wheels and carbon and inox304 and 126 so has gasoil and benzine when used. this all together. as much as you maybe dislike surfing is not a commercial sport. maybe to you it looks like that cause you are in that environment where everyone talks and does and lives that way. hey im being friendly just to make sure you know that. surfing really only serves a mustard seed of the problem.
you got jetskis and boats and the surfing and yeah the chemicals to make it.

my job omg they make reservoirs that are as big as some populier trees. and it contains acids to be deposit and used.

the message im trying to make is that it just serves a little to the greater picture. its a big laugh honestly.

also violent and excuse me for that i used the terminology because in essence it is like surf skate snowboarding is an individual sport. you are not ment to fight or teamwork. it is really non violent. but i agree that its pain/hurtfull and a great challenge not to be taken lightly. and yes others might be hurt of you get caught in the middle of a spree of waves and people trying to catch it. yes its fearsome depending on who you are it can end pain hurtfully, and it surely is a sport of progression and great challenges.

and i do not have to be a surfer to even realise that. the you are noob thing is completely unnecesary. people know that allready. i came here just to share my feelings and the hype surrounding this. and untill now i thank all you guys for that .

to go ontopic

i do not want to be a part of a settlement surfing day. i condone colonialism and im a very pro life person. in my opinion the united states should be given back to the natives. im sure they wouldnt put us out. they are nice people ( california) caliph harun) we can keep surfing there. and yes they might fish in some spots. and we can share

we can give back the sources to the poor haitians and dominicans. what are we better to take those sources. it doesnt help us and doesnt make us better persons. i love logics.
ira is ireland(its attached to it
israel is palestina. always been untill 1948 because some religious boys go mental on the concept promised land.
sierra leon belongs to the black natives
south africa is not for dutch and the jews its of the black natives
WE HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE and put our pride away that our ancestors were really doing mischief.

if we can do that and settle that straight. we can make this world a better place. and if you wanna be rich and be the leecher of this life then i can only say shame shame shame.

hearing that this thing even happens in california got me shocked. i thought it only happened in those colonial countrys. well california is also stolen lets not forget that. but yeah it happens.

offtopic. hey look i know surfers stand in your way and its annoying. skaters have that as well beginners trying to do a standard boardslide and get in my way. but you have to remember no one is chad muska the first time you skateboard. and i guess no one is kelly slater or john or matt or machado just to name a few. have some love for the community right? i see some on the beach getting a small wipeout LOL. but i love how they struggle to go back paddling. i got nothing but respect. and yeah even for the ones that surf first time with a shortboard. its all good.

i think as a beginner or pro you should never look down on another. those beginners come with advanced tricks LOL. they cant even ollie. and then yes but they can go crazy on a miniramp somehow. indies and methods. respect man.
i was even looking up at my non sponsored friend. and he did miniramp tricks that i could only dream off. i felts shortage on that part for years. he is a natural. he could stop skating for 7 years and come back doin it all over without getting used to.

I've surfed many spots around the world,a lot in third or developing world countries.
Early days of surf travel meant just getting there and negotiating with a local family to stay with them often in a shack in the family plot. Brown rice local food and basic water,
this also applied traveling up the east coast of Australia renting a farm house for $30 a week even the Hawaiian north shore had cheap shacks.
First price hike , popularity pushes prices up.
some body buys several properties to make money.
Government and official see money trail, figure out how to push local owners aside and build shonky accommodation. Native land systems broken down.
Overseas interest, "buy or lease" land, bribe officials to "protect" investment.
Indonesian government Prime Ministers son tries to build chain of hotels throughout islands, pulls in overseas money and rips them off.
The supreme example is the burying of former rice paddies at Kuta beach Bali under under almost as many hotels as there was rice grains.
American interests get lease on Tavarua , gates Cloud break and Restaurants surf breaks as exclusive use (since overturned by Fiji government) because in Fiji reefs were considered Tribal farms so exclusive to that tribe.
Often former European colonies had land laws unextinguished from those times or the the land was held by Newly Independent country leader.
In the former joint Condominium of French / English Vanuatu touring French surfers thought they could walk across tribal land to access surf, they were badly beaten up!
So without rolling out more examples of how it may be different.
My solution, review your travel plans, choose to stay where the majority of local people are gainfully and non exploitively employed, be aware that your European standards may not be fully appropriate and that the inbound wealth if it gets to the bottom levels can do much good.
Ethical resorts and tours often set school and health programs and sponsor NGOs like SurfAid.
Behind the scenes if the government is corrupt then there is a hand to pocket system of graft.
It can be found and the visiting surf can do much to aid families without being patronising or setting up a begging situation.
Be a world human!! See with your heart , give with your brains, be kind sincere and respectful.
Be safe, often in some places a life is cheap and you are only the cash in your pocket.
IT is dark on both sides, one candle can disperse the darkness.
Footnote;
I have been surf traveling since 1979 and really out of the way places since 1970.
Arrogance or dumb jingoism about the greatness of your country compared to others, really sets you up for a major takedown.
Be firm and humble about things.

fromsk82surf wrote:i do not know why you have to bring that up again (the you are noob thing).

I never said you are a "noob". I would not even consider you a Noob/Newbie, since you are not even at that level yet.

My comment was how can you make statements like "surfing is non-violent" and "does not pollute the ocean", when you have not surfed yet. If you said "I read that" or "my surfer friend told me" and ask if we think that statement is valid, then thats great to discuss and share our thoughts on the subject. But to make outright finite statement like that, you need to be coming from your own personal experience, not feeling.

waikikikichan wrote:

fromsk82surf wrote:i do not know why you have to bring that up again (the you are noob thing).

I never said you are a "noob". I would not even consider you a Noob/Newbie, since you are not even at that level yet.

My comment was how can you make statements like "surfing is non-violent" and "does not pollute the ocean", when you have not surfed yet. If you said "I read that" or "my surfer friend told me" and ask if we think that statement is valid, then thats great to discuss and share our thoughts on the subject. But to make outright finite statement like that, you need to be coming from your own personal experience, not feeling.

there is no way you can measure the stress i put on a word when i write things. if you were in front of me then we would understand eachothers opinions better perhaps since we use our senses. body language. voice intonation etc.i placed violence in the same terminology but you clearly use it for something else. no problem there. i am here to learn from you guys not to flame.

i never said it does NOT pollute at all. i said it serves so little to the great wide picture. by the way all those broken surfboards if you know the place. all those things are being thrown and buried underground. there is a schedule for those kinds of trash. like cola cans take 70 years to completely dissolve into nature. look im not trying to dissaprove your point. your debating someone who agrees with you. it just does so little to the great picture. that is all.

jaffa1949 wrote:I've surfed many spots around the world,a lot in third or developing world countries.
Early days of surf travel meant just getting there and negotiating with a local family to stay with them often in a shack in the family plot. Brown rice local food and basic water,
this also applied traveling up the east coast of Australia renting a farm house for $30 a week even the Hawaiian north shore had cheap shacks.
First price hike , popularity pushes prices up.
some body buys several properties to make money.
Government and official see money trail, figure out how to push local owners aside and build shonky accommodation. Native land systems broken down.
Overseas interest, "buy or lease" land, bribe officials to "protect" investment.
Indonesian government Prime Ministers son tries to build chain of hotels throughout islands, pulls in overseas money and rips them off.
The supreme example is the burying of former rice paddies at Kuta beach Bali under under almost as many hotels as there was rice grains.
American interests get lease on Tavarua , gates Cloud break and Restaurants surf breaks as exclusive use (since overturned by Fiji government) because in Fiji reefs were considered Tribal farms so exclusive to that tribe.
Often former European colonies had land laws unextinguished from those times or the the land was held by Newly Independent country leader.
In the former joint Condominium of French / English Vanuatu touring French surfers thought they could walk across tribal land to access surf, they were badly beaten up!
So without rolling out more examples of how it may be different.
My solution, review your travel plans, choose to stay where the majority of local people are gainfully and non exploitively employed, be aware that your European standards may not be fully appropriate and that the inbound wealth if it gets to the bottom levels can do much good.
Ethical resorts and tours often set school and health programs and sponsor NGOs like SurfAid.
Behind the scenes if the government is corrupt then there is a hand to pocket system of graft.
It can be found and the visiting surf can do much to aid families without being patronising or setting up a begging situation.
Be a world human!! See with your heart , give with your brains, be kind sincere and respectful.
Be safe, often in some places a life is cheap and you are only the cash in your pocket.
IT is dark on both sides, one candle can disperse the darkness.
Footnote;
I have been surf traveling since 1979 and really out of the way places since 1970.
Arrogance or dumb jingoism about the greatness of your country compared to others, really sets you up for a major takedown.
Be firm and humble about things.

i hope there is still something left of that beautiful way of traveling as a surfer. nothing better then to appreciate another culture and food. aristocrates said: im a citizan of the world when asked what he was.
that really connects to what you said

BE A WORLD HUMAN

One of the recent 'surf simply' podcasts looked at the economics of surfing (surf tourism essentially). Sure to a westerner the loss of natural habitat and built up environment and, yes, corruption looks terrible. But for the local residents the money can bring education, infrastructure and health. And with increased knowledge by the residents can come power and pressure to have ethical development and equal access.

It's not surf unique; it's an issue that has always existed with any tourism since time began.

dtc wrote:One of the recent 'surf simply' podcasts looked at the economics of surfing (surf tourism essentially). Sure to a westerner the loss of natural habitat and built up environment and, yes, corruption looks terrible. But for the local residents the money can bring education, infrastructure and health. And with increased knowledge by the residents can come power and pressure to have ethical development and equal access.

It's not surf unique; it's an issue that has always existed with any tourism since time began.

Big tussle here locally over Benoa Bay and the planned draining and development of large parts of it.....happens that the low lying mangrove areas would be horribly affected (eliminated)....anyone who knows about marine fisheries knows the essential functions of groves of mangroves....nurseries for many species of fish, crab, shrimp and other sea life....acts as a filter for surrounding water, trapping sediments and pollutants, stabilises erosion on shorelines (though if the area was drained that would cease to be an issue....the projected effect of the project extends to ocean currents coming in, out and past the mouth of the bay and is projected to have disruptive and devastating consequences to surrounding marine habitats.

....but it will create a large amount of jobs, pumping more money (massive amounts actually) into the local economy via, and I quote " ...yacht marinas, race tracks, casinos, nightclubs, a large entertainment complex and theme park, resort hotels, a golf course, a luxury shopping complex, restaurants, bars, cafes, apartment buildings, and a large numbers of condominiums and villas for sale or lease.

For tourists and investors, the idea of all this luxury and convenience in a bay famed for its spectacular sunrises and sunsets, it makes for an exciting sell."

It might seem a black and white issue from a tourist's point of view, who wishes to come and enjoy the natural beauty of Bali.....but as that is quickly disappearing anyway with rampant development in every corner of the island and even more rampant polluting which has already taken it's toll on local fisheries.............question is which is REALLY the best for the local population, all things considered?

http://jakartaglobe.beritasatu.com/news ... benoa-bay/

waikikikichan wrote:

fromsk82surf wrote:s The real world is quite different. It always was violent, especially when kooks/half goods think they "deserve" to be surfing this certain wave.

Or better surfers claiming every wave for themselves, independent of right of way or surfing etiquette. At least in France at least as big an issue as what you state, and I assume not just there. I never tried a sport where beginners are treated as unwelcoming as in surfing.

Oldie wrote:

waikikikichan wrote:

fromsk82surf wrote:s The real world is quite different. It always was violent, especially when kooks/half goods think they "deserve" to be surfing this certain wave.

Or better surfers claiming every wave for themselves, independent of right of way or surfing etiquette. At least in France at least as big an issue as what you state, and I assume not just there. I never tried a sport where beginners are treated as unwelcoming as in surfing.

if you are lucky you will find just one surfer there

http://www.asilahinfo.com/place/sidi-mugait-beach/

come to my place when the time comes. let me surf a lil and then we can chill there. its clean there. friendly sealife animals . and i as a not even started surfer LOL welcome you. ill pm you i promise

dtc wrote:But for the local residents the money can bring education, infrastructure and health. And with increased knowledge by the residents can come power and pressure to have ethical development and equal access.

Point taken. That said, the price for this benefit should not be too high. As Big H writes,

The natural beauty of Bali..... is quickly disappearing … with rampant development in every corner of the island and even more rampant polluting which has already taken it's toll on local fisheries.

A balance must be found with the goal of preserving Bali's natural beauty for future generations. We face similar problems in the Napa Valley. Developers flood county supervisors with plans to cover the vineyards with wineries, resorts, big box stores, and luxury housing. Green zones were established years ago and it takes citizen vigilance to keep them in tact.