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The famous question
Posted:
Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:28 amby emtee
I started surfing a few months ago and am hooked. I typically surf an 8' mini mal and can catch waves/ride the face...I dont rip by any means. I also have a 5'11 lost puddle jumper which I haven't used a whole lot. When I try to use it in crunchier surf it pearls, it's hard to duckdive bc the volume. I want something for the crunchier surf, where I live (beach break) when the waves pick up, even chest-head high is pretty steep. I was looking at some shortboards, primarily from CI. My question is, I know that my longboard will help me progress, but what about when the surf gets big/steep? I feel like I am limiting my experience not going out on the bigger days. Is there something to be said for just ripping the band aid off and getting the shortboard? I mean I feel like theres going to be a transition even if I continue to ride my mini mal for 10 years.
thoughts/feelings?
Re: The famous question
Posted:
Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:36 amby emtee
Re: The famous question
Posted:
Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:22 amby jaffa1949
First a few thoughts for you. The 5'11" is a short board, the take off position for short and shorter boards is a lot more critical ( ie in the steep part of the wave) .
Questions for you, weight, age and height?
If you are nose diving on your 5'11" you are not ready to go shorter you won't have the paddle speed nor the pop up agility YET. Stay with what you have, learn your skills improve them and all your problems will be self solving.
Read through, all the I want a short board posts, you'll understand why I'm offering this advice
Re: The famous question
Posted:
Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:34 amby Big H
Stick with the bigger board until you can handle what you consider crunchy easily. It will make you a better surfer, band aids non-withstanding.
I was here this morning...these are stock photos but size was about the same....my ride was a 9'6" and was just a bit overhead in the bigger sets. Got a couple floaters as the waves closed out. Crunchy.
There were a lot of kooks on shortboards there....most of them not getting any waves....looking like a sack of potatoes when they paddled with no form and terrible posture and technique.....didn't matter that they were in the right spot, they could barely paddle their boards and would take a stroke of luck and absolute perfect positioning to get a wave .....they were getting in the way for sure but missing all they paddled for while furiously trying to rip the band aid off.
Get the short board.....more waves for the rest of us.
Re: The famous question
Posted:
Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:25 amby oldmansurfer
You can ride a longboard on bigger waves than a shortboard in general so getting a shortboard won't help. But ultimately if you want to surf a shortboard the easy way to approach it is in graduated steps down from a longboard
Re: The famous question
Posted:
Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:55 amby Big H
Excellent point....going from an 8 ft to a 5'11" will be like trying to ride a feather.
Re: The famous question
Posted:
Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:36 amby waikikikichan
emtee wrote: where I live (beach break) when the waves pick up, even chest-head high is pretty steep. What about when the surf gets big/steep.
Most of the time it's the Rider. Sometimes it's the Board choice. But in this situation, I believe it also is the Wave. If it "steep" when it's chest high, then when it's over-head the wave justs dumps. Close-outs are closeouts and not rideable. Are other surfers making the drop and riding out clean ?
Re: The famous question
Posted:
Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:35 amby Big H
I just looked up the Lost Puddle Jumper.....it isn't too far away from mini mal volumes at 41.8L and I bet with that shape the rocker is really flat and in jacking waves it's hard to keep the nose up right? I have a board similar; the only way I can use it in steep waves is to get in as they are developing, which in jacking waves means pinpoint positioning which also means missing more waves than I would with a board that could better deal with later drops....
Ripping off the band aid so to speak isn't doing you any favours in steeper waves with that board....you would need something with more rocker or impeccable technique and positioning....
Re: The famous question
Posted:
Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:53 pmby emtee
Big H wrote:I just looked up the Lost Puddle Jumper.....it isn't too far away from mini mal volumes at 41.8L and I bet with that shape the rocker is really flat and in jacking waves it's hard to keep the nose up right? I have a board similar; the only way I can use it in steep waves is to get in as they are developing, which in jacking waves means pinpoint positioning which also means missing more waves than I would with a board that could better deal with later drops....
Ripping off the band aid so to speak isn't doing you any favours in steeper waves with that board....you would need something with more rocker or impeccable technique and positioning....
This is exactly what I was getting at. The line is very very fine between missing the wave and catching it (when it's steep) because of positioning. I tend to be as forward as possible (with the nose still out of the water) because the nose has volume, but then the nose will go under. When I move back I miss the wave. I'm really not getting as much use as I thought I would out of it because when the surf picks up I feel like I need more rocker
Edit: I think maybe my OP was confusing; I already have the board (the PJ). My question was really about something that works better in steeper conditions. Is that something that as a beginner I shouldn't really be worried about? I'm 5'11 175, 22 years old athletic btw for the person who asked
Re: The famous question
Posted:
Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:18 pmby oldmansurfer
I am 6'2" 210, 62 years old, not athletic and ride an 8 foot board in really steep waves
Re: The famous question
Posted:
Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:22 pmby Lebowski
You don't need another board after a few months of surfing. The mini-mal will almost certainly do everything you can handle. What you need to do is improve your skills.
That Lost board looks like a groveller. Beginner + Grovellor + steep surf = plenty of spectacular beatings.
Save your money and stick with the mini-mal.
Re: The famous question
Posted:
Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:50 pmby waikikikichan
emtee wrote:I tend to be as forward as possible (with the nose still out of the water) because the nose has volume, but then the nose will go under. When I move back I miss the wave.
Please answer these questions:
How do you know that the nose goes under ?
What method are you using to move your body back ?
Re: The famous question
Posted:
Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:36 pmby emtee
waikikikichan wrote:emtee wrote:I tend to be as forward as possible (with the nose still out of the water) because the nose has volume, but then the nose will go under. When I move back I miss the wave.
When I really catch the wave and the tail lifts up I'll feel the feeling of the nose going under and if I peak at it I'll see it. By "going back" I just meant if that happens, on the next wave I'll be a little further back on the board.
I appreciate all the feedback. I'm aware that a mini mal can surf in just about any conditions that I would see, I'm not doubting that or pulling a "yeah this board doesn't really work...." From my view point a shortboard with decent rocker is going to be more suited to steeper surf. I was just wondering if it would hurt my progress. I feel like my quiver doesn't have anything optimal for barreling conditions.
Please answer these questions:
How do you know that the nose goes under ?
What method are you using to move your body back ?
Re: The famous question
Posted:
Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:58 pmby waikikikichan
the nose going under is fine. In a moment as the wave jacks up, the nose will pop out again...... that's if you keep the momentum. By looking at the nose, your body reacts and pulls back, arms stiffing up, back arches. That slows the board down. You have to trust yourself , the board and what the wave is doing. That comes with experience.
Glad you're not moving back on your board during the paddle/take off. Just make sure to keep paddling even if the nose goes under. When you move back / re-position for you next wave, how much further back are you ? I centimeter ? 2 inches ?
Re: The famous question
Posted:
Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:03 amby emtee
waikikikichan wrote:the nose going under is fine. In a moment as the wave jacks up, the nose will pop out again...... that's if you keep the momentum. By looking at the nose, your body reacts and pulls back, arms stiffing up, back arches. That slows the board down. You have to trust yourself , the board and what the wave is doing. That comes with experience.
Glad you're not moving back on your board during the paddle/take off. Just make sure to keep paddling even if the nose goes under. When you move back / re-position for you next wave, how much further back are you ? I centimeter ? 2 inches ?
Very, very fine adjustments probably a matter of centimeters. What you said is pretty interesting, I didn't know that the nose can go under at that point in the wave. You're right on the money about trust because usually when I feel/see that I either bail or give a half ass attempt.
I really appreciate all of the feedback, thank you
Edit: I forgot to mention one aspect that is compelling me toward a shortboard. Winter is coming where I live (New York), I want to be able to go out on the bigger days with an appropriate board.
Re: The famous question
Posted:
Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:17 amby pmcaero
Maybe go bigger so you can catch the wave earlier when it's not as steep?
I have a 7'9" BIC Minimal and always had issues with pearling in steep surf. Shortboards are better (lots of rocker and a sharp nose ) but you can still pearl when it's pitching a lip. Speed is key regardless what you're riding, if you match the wave's speed, there's less of a chance of pearling.
Re: The famous question
Posted:
Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:23 amby Tudeo
What u can do with a board like the Puddle Jumper is in the moment u feel the wave takes u, angle it to the face. So the moment ur feet land ur already turning in the face. This works fine with my Dominator which is also a low rockered board.
Re: The famous question
Posted:
Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:51 amby oldmansurfer
Tudeo wrote:What u can do with a board like the Puddle Jumper is in the moment u feel the wave takes u, angle it to the face. So the moment ur feet land ur already turning in the face. This works fine with my Dominator which is also a low rockered board.
You can also do this with a longboard
Re: The famous question
Posted:
Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:57 amby dtc
Its true that in steep surf a flat rocker and a longer board are harder. Esp (maybe oddly) in small steep surf, because you don't have much room between the top of the wave (where you are catching it) and the bottom of the wave (where its flat). Longboards do best catching waves a bit further out, if the wave is jacking up then there may be no 'further out'.
Anyway, as tudeo and OMS mentioned, the way to catch steep waves on a longboard is to take off at an angle and then angle further as you pop up or immediately upon popping up. So you effectively catch the wave going across the wave, thus negating the steepness. Once you're cruising the line, you can deal steep sections, but getting there in the first place can be hard. Plus you have to pop up faster once the wave has caught the board.
so its paddle in at an angle, very fast pop up, angle again immediately and aim to go along the wave - no bottom turn.
Its not easy...to be honest, a shorter board is more suited to steep hollow waves. But a 5ft11 board is not suited to a beginner; so you are sort of stuck between two less than ideal situations. If you can find somewhere that isn't steep, or surf a higher tide (when the waves will not be as steep), that is the best option. Or get a board in between, just under 7ft with a bit of rocker...
Re: The famous question
Posted:
Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:22 amby jaffa1949
The name says it all for a beginner, groveller = you grovelling to get your act together paddling, pop up and getting organised to ride the wave in a short sharp space of time.
Yes short boards fit better in short sharp steeper waves unless you are 13 keep getting skill on the bigger board then step down.
