Board getting looser the more I surf it?

[benjl]

Generally I would imagine that people would get more stable with their board the more they surf it- why am I getting looser on mine??

When I first got my 6'3 thumb tail a couple of months ago it was like the most stable board ever. I could seem to do super late drops and stick all landings- if anything I found it too hard to whip around compared to my normal 6'2. Lately though I've been whipping it round like never before and almost struggling with the looseness on top turns and not being able to stick all the late drops.

It's strange, I used to find that as a quad it would be super stable and grippy on the wave face but I sacrificed pivot/hack turns. Now I seem to find the quads almost too fast and loose and almost wanting the thruster for stability.

I doubt my body positioning has changed and I guess it's good that I'm being able to whip the board around now but I'm just a little surprised, especially with an explanation for why I've been struggling on steep drops lately.

Would that little crack on my rail that let in some water a few weeks ago have anything to do with this? I dried the board out all week before re-resining the crack lastnight.

[dtc]

My first thought is that your back foot is just further back, which would account for everything you describe.

Why I don't know, it could be a slightly different pop up or just something you have inched towards over time without really noticing, until now when you have started thinking about it

The other option is that your turns have become much more efficient as you have hit 'the groove' ie you are now doing them properly. Although this doesn't account for the late drops whereas the back foot thing may well cause it

It's highly unlikely that a fairly small change to your board will be responsible. If your board has taken on water it would be less loose bc it will be heavier

[waikikikichan]

" and not being able to stick all the late drops. " & " I've been struggling on steep drops lately " -

Question: When you are not "sticking your landing", What is happening ? Does the board ( fins ) kick out and you face plant the wave ? Or the rail engages too hard and you get buck off unto your butt ?

[oldmansurfer]

I was surfing a 9'6" long board with a two and one fin setup and noticed it getting much looser. I thought I was just getting better at surfing but then discovered the screw fell out of the fin and the fin was sliding all over and rotating up and down while I surfed. I surf a quad and the problems I have on steep takeoffs are first when the wave jacks up and I free fall on the drop this is often due to backwash but sometimes maybe bottom contour. In this situation I often pearl or if I can land it the board lurches sideways a little then I fall. Sometimes it is just a big wave and I didn't get down the face fast enough. I have usually shoved the rail into the face to try to get turning as fast as possible in which case the board will airdrop and when it hits it lurches sideways just a little bit but enought to make me fall (so far). If I am going straight down then I will do a slight airdrop and sometimes pull it off. One other problem on steep waves I have is if I turn at the top of the wave or takeoff at an angle. As I drop and the wave gets steeper the fins pop out and I do a tail slide and often fall although I have been able to stay on sometimes. Because of this I don't usually turn at the top of big steep waves and instead go straight down but push the inside rail into the face.

[benjl]

Hey guys

Thanks for your responses- there's probably all aspects from each of you that are accurate.
@ Waikiki- more often than not, it has been face plants in to the wave face recently. To the point that I think I actually seriously strained my right neck muscle and struggled to move my neck and down the last couple of days. A couple of times it has felt like ive been punched in the face by the wave face (I do kickboxing and know how it feels!). I'd be curious to know what it means with whether i face plant or go off the back on my butt?
@ DTC- You would be right with the slightly further back foot stance. The waves at my regular break over the last couple of weeks have been what I would probably image a good reef break to be like- they are wide and fat until hitting a precise part of the sand and then they become super steep, hollow and heavy. Sometimes almost folding across the whole beach as one big close out. Last weekend I have never had so many bad 'over the falls' and resulting hold downs being the worst ive ever had. One was probably a good 10seconds and I got pushed so far down I hit the bottom of the ocean.
There was only a split second between the wave pushing you forwards and then being vertical down the face.
At one point (and I have never seen this happen at my break), the better surfers were getting full head-high barrels and coming out the other side like videos you see in Indo. It was insane. Most other surfers got nailed by the drop.
Possibly in fear of leaning too far forwards on the board and getting pearling on these waves i've been sitting a bit further back to just survive the drop.
@ OMS- some of your comments regarding the steep wave take offs are probably accurate too. I have probably been angling off on take off sometimes to avoid getting flipped off by the heavy lip if i go straight down the face.

It was similar conditions yesterday and once again, quite a few waves were basically just about surviving the drop as it would close out on both sides and just dump heavily. I wondered if maybe I was landing front foot first on some take offs? And whether maybe my epoxy board is just not flexible and rockered enough in the tail to bend to the wave when it goes so steep? It seems to not get dinged very easily so I imagine it must have some decent glassing on it.

I only actually got one proper wave that I was able to do some turns on yesterday and suprisingly it was on my backside which is normally my worser side. I managed to do a couple of top to bottom turns and get good release on the turns.

[oldmansurfer]

I have taken to pushing my inside rail into the wave on the drop on steep waves. So the board will turn before I reach the flats at the bottom and I escape the lip always. I think maybe wave selection or positioning may have something to do with your problem. Today when I popped up on these backside waves I found I put my forward foot slightly toward the inside rail instead of the normal popup position. What I do normally is slide my front foot to the inside rail as I get near the bottom but today it was right when I first popped up. Not sure why I did that but it worked.... maybe because the waves are smaller than I usually surf there? I don't know ....most often I just notice what I am doing with no prior intention of doing whatever it is.

[waikikikichan]

"it has been face plants in to the wave face recently. To the point that I think I actually seriously strained my right neck muscle" - If it was too small fins, you'd be sliding butt and hitting your nose not your ear. So think it's not the board.

"I'd be curious to know what it means with whether i face plant or go off the back on my butt?" - boards too hard to turn you fall on your butt. Boards too loose ( or you over turn ) , you hit your face.

"Most other surfers got nailed by the drop" - so it's not the board. You like most of the other non-advance guys weren't making the drop.

"Possibly in fear of leaning too far forwards on the board and getting pearling on these waves i've been sitting a bit further back to just survive the drop." - so you're wheeling out and looping over. Just like dropping in on a vert ramp, you gotta be pointed down.

"I have probably been angling off on take off sometimes to avoid getting flipped off by the heavy lip if i go straight down the face." - and that's why you get pitched. Make the drop, bottom turn, rise up, set your rail, burn. You're trying to set your rail even before escaping the force of the wave.

"basically just about surviving the drop as it would close out on both sides and just dump heavily". - some waves are just not meant to be ridden. Advance guys pass on the waves they feel aren't makeable, that's when the regular guys think they can seize on the chance to get a wave. Learn the waves, know when to go and not go. Be patient.

benji - you should have spent more time on a bigger board to learn to bottom turn and utilize your rail, versus relying on your fins. A good bottom turn sets up everything after. A bigger board lets you get in earlier before the wave jacks up and gets to steep. I think you're trying to JAM your board into the wave. Anytime your force it and not work with it, the wave is gonna win.

[oldmansurfer]

On steep drops that I am having problems making I go a little further out and start paddling to get up speed before the wave gets to me then paddle even faster once it does. Having a good bottom turn is definitely an advantage is fast steep waves. Being able to take a steep drop followed by a strong bottom turn is what makes surfing steep fast waves possible. Lining up at the right spot and taking off on the right waves is also important.

I have a little story for you. I was surfing long ago at my usual break which was Kealia beach at that time. I was having a blast I figured out the lineup and which waves to catch but I had to absolutely jam the bottom turn or it would seem like the wave closed out on me. Once I did that I usually had to follow up with a quick speed turn or it would seem like the wave closed out on me but after that I could make a bunch of turns and then there was a fast breaking area on the inside that I had to speed up for again. I was surfing all alone on these well overhead waves (8 to 10 foot faces) but there was a carload of guys that showed up. They lined up next to me causing me to go a little deeper into the lineup causing me to not make any waves because I was already at my limit. After me taking off and getting pounded repeatedly and them doing the same they paddled over to me and said something like "What happened to the waves? We saw you having one great wave after another and paddled out and it's this mess." I said "There are waves but you have to be in the right place and catch the right waves." They said "You're not catching any good waves any more." I responded " You guys pushed me out of my spot." They were like "Bull#@*&" " I said let me show you which waves to catch and you have to absolutely jam the bottom turn and then make a speed turn or the wave will pass you by." So I caught a couple more waves to show them the way the waves should look and that I could make it if they let me lineup where I wanted to. Then I let them at it since I hate surfing with guys like that.

[benjl]

Sorry to bring this one back up but at the same time this stuff started happening, I also noticed that the wax has started to come off around my front foot?

This hasn't haooened before but just seems to flake and rub off now (including the base layer)? I'm thinking of taking it all off and re-waxing!

[jaffa1949]

As the water temp changes so can the wax consistency change, I don't use Wax at all because my turn used to buckle the wax on the board.
I have a deck grip thin, 1mm and very grippy, clear so you can see the board if you check out Riley Surf Boards they have it .
Try this link, http://shop.balsasurfboardsriley.com.au ... ories.html

[oldmansurfer]

You should see my board . I don't know what to do with my board when it develops blank spots. Eventually I scrape it down and reapply wax but mostly I just apply a bunch right there. One of the things I used to do which I haven't tried yet because I need to remember to buy a candle is to drip some candle wax right in that area to make bumps then wax over those bumps with surfboard wax.

[benjl]

So I decided to strip it down and re-wax I used some sex wax (bronze) for the first time and wow that stuff is sticky!!
I was wondering if maybe my front foot was moving the wax when I popped up and causing some slight instability or delay in pop up?

Thanks for that link Jaffa- that deck grip is crazy. What's it actually like and how long does it last for?

[oldmansurfer]

I am pretty sure the areas that lose wax on my board are related to my chest rubbing as I paddle and butt rubbing on the board as I sit. I spend much more time doing those two activities compared to actually surfing. There are pressure divots in my board where my front and rear feet go and those are in different areas. Long ago before surf wax we used to start waxing the board by dripping candle wax then follow up with parafin. Surf wax is so much stickier.

[waikikikichan]

You're a goofy footer. So those spots are from your chest. I think it was your summer Bali wax lifting up from under your cool water wax.

[benjl]

Hi Waikiki

This isn't the board I brought in bali so the base coat etc if from the previous owner.
Just never had wax move fin the bottom up before like that. It was like any pressure from the too moved and lifted the base off and it as all concentrated around the area where my front goes.
Also I thougt I was regular stance- I'm right footed and my right foot is at the back?

[jaffa1949]

Thanks for that link Jaffa- that deck grip is crazy. What's it actually like and how long does it last for?

I'm really happy with it the current lot has been on three years and is just showing some minor signs of wear. I'm not going back to wax!!!
I've had other systems of grip, one was hexagons but with so many edges it lifted quickly.
The real need is to dewax , clean and degrease the board thoroughly ,hot water, sun, commercial degreaser, autothinners then a wash with detergent and water then rinse and rinse and rinse then dry thoroughly, when you apply make absolutely sure there are no air bubbles. If i can't squeegee them out I pinprick them and squeeze the air out.
First few outings the grip feels slippery ( particularly in a smooth skin wetsuit) but it quickly comes good.

I've surfed it in board shorts and no rash problems, I always wear a rash vest and I haven't noticed any chest rash problems.
Other reports a few guys found it a little too slippery first session and didn't persist, some failures from poor application, half cleanings fail quickly.
BTW it feel grippier when wet.
I suspect it might fail more quickly with booties dragging the edges!
I still get to see all the colours of my board without dirty wax.

[waikikikichan]

benji- Ooops, sorry, my mistake, Now I remember you are a Regular foot surfer. I would just remove the old wax. Put on a Base Coat and then the right temperature top coat. It's just the old wax peeling up like fried eggs in a pan. Your foot is just making it flake off faster than areas that don't get step on as much.

[benjl]

Hey guys- further to my very first post in this thread I had another incredibly frustrating surfing experience today and I'm running out of ideas but I desperately need my surfing stoke back!

I took my my 6'3 out again with its new wax job today in 2-5ft waves. For the third or fourth consecutive week, I've struggled to get in early and up on steeper waves and many times getting flipped off by the lip.
Prior to a month ago and on the same board, I was getting better every single week and had new levels of confidence with this board. I felt it could handle the latest of drops and I always stuck them out. I never had had issues like this and more importantly, never consecutively.
The reason I brought this board is that my 6'2 has a lot less rocker, more volume, thicker glassing and boxier rails so I would always get nailed when the waves got steep or big as it was very lose, wouldn't bite in to a wave or had enough curve for really hollow or steep waves.

Here's where it gets interesting- about 2-3 weeks ago and around the same time everything started going wrong with my surfing on the 6'3, I noticed it had taken in some water along the rail from Where I had mended over a 5cm crack in the glassing- horizontal with the rail.
I thought I had gotten all the water out before re-sealing over the crack with epoxy resin but I'm wondering if I haven't? How would I know?

It's like my boards have switched roles.. I can get in early and carve up on my 6'2 even on bigger waves where I couldn't before and now struggle with steep waves on the 6'3 that I've never had any troubles with.
I just don't get it and all I can think of that's changed is this possible water intake?

I've tried paddling hard and early, I've tried shifting my weight further forwards to aid in getting in early but it didn't help. I've also lost about 3kg recently due to a kickboxing weight restriction of 62kg so the more I lean forward, the less weight I have over the back. Also wondering if that's affected it at all?

[dtc]

By caught on the lip do you mean when paddling for the wave or after catching it?

Sounds like the former. Normally caught on the lip is due to paddling or positioning or timing. You have tried paddling; are you in the right spot (in the line up, not on the board) or paddling too late? Which can have much the same class consequences at the end of the day

Are you surfing on different tides ie low tide with the 6'3? Low tide waves are more prone to causing lip catching

[waikikikichan]

Are you getting pitched tail over nose ? Or rail over rail ? I have a feeling you are trying to jam your board into the wave, slotting too early. I think you need to build more confidence / technique to drive down and do a deeper bottom turn.