Surfing with a degenerative spine.

[peazz]

Hey guys,

Ive been having issues with my back since about 15 months ago, with nearly chronic lower back pain.

I finally got around to sorting xrays at the chiropractor and well, as the title of the thread suggest i got a degenerative spine with a lower compressed disc, I'm only 26!

Ive wanted to surf my whole life so started like 6 months ago, The chiro is saying surfing is good the for the core, but i dont want to push myself to hard.

Is there anyone else here surfing with a similar condition? If so how do you manage it, especially keeping a strong core to support a degenerative spine?

Today is a very sad day for me

[oldmansurfer]

I have injured my back during the time when I wasn't surfing. I now have to do exercises every day to stretch out my back and keep it from cramping up. As long as I do my back feels fine unless I am carrying my 40 pound SUP board then I have to be careful to carry with my left arm because for some reason if I do with my right arm it tweeks my back. Getting old....it's not for wimps

[gd6]

Don't let it get you down. I'm 27 and struggled with serious health problems for the past decade, and with the right regimen I've managed to get myself healthy enough to do things I wanted to do. I just started surfing this year and its something that I wouldn't have been able to do in my adult life until now. I struggled with a condition called porphyria which supposedly has no cure, but I searched and I searched and found possible causes, the most likely in my case was mercury exposure, and found ways to detoxify my body of the mercury and it takes a long time but I was able to get rid of so many symptoms that made my life miserable, and am still improving. Doctors were very little help in this process, and didn't have any answers, and didn't think that it could be reversed, but I perservered and am sure I will be stronger than ever if I just keep it up ( I was strong and robust until I was about 17-18 and things changed rather suddenly).

One of the main things that helped me rebuild a healthy body was being on the proper diet. There is a TON of bad information about what to eat and what not to eat nowadays, but to make it as simple as possible, it helps immensely to cut out empty foods and processed foods (soda, fast food, etc...) and start eating more natural wholesome foods. The best resource I have found for diet is the Weston A. Price Foundation (http://www.westonaprice.org), its a bit controversial because they promote old fashioned foods such as eggs, butter, raw unpasteurized milk, and meats, which some don't consider health foods, but they have the research to back it up and I know plenty of people who have recovered from many serious conditions which modern medicine considered incurable.

It doesn't matter if you have a genetic susceptibility or not, it can be greatly helped or even possibly fixed completely if you take good care of your body and also your mind. Don't let it interfere with your dreams or get you down, and you can be surfing until your an old fart if thats what you want to do

[dtc]

I've had 2 herniated discs and still struggle a bit if I do too much, but I guess I had an injury that 'healed' rather than a degenerative condition. But for what its worth here are my comments.

An important part of back stability is actually your glutes - if your glutes are strong and 'firing' then they take a lot of pressure of your back; if they are weak then your back needs to support itself and there is a greater risk of injury.

Secondly, with the core/stomach, keep in mind that the stomach needs to do a lot of things - sit ups (the standard 'core exercise') involve only contraction (bringing your chest and legs closer together). However, for back safety and indeed for most exercise, your stomach isnt involved in contraction (well, it is during the pop up!) but in preventing excess rotation and flexion.

So this means:

1. look at your glutes and how they work and whether they are strong. A guy called 'Bret Contreras' has a whole website dedicated pretty much to glutes. Its a bit female focused (and has photos of glutes that may be NSFW) but its all really good stuff; and a glute is a glute even if you are doing it for aesthetic reasons.

2. for core work, dont concentrate on (or even ditch) the sit ups and do anti rotation and stability core exercises. There is a guy called Dr Stuart McGill who does a lot on core and back stuff (he is on line as well and check out his articles, which have a wealth of info).

Other online sites that have glute/core suggestions (although amongst many other strength exercises, so you will have to dig through) are Tony Gentilcore, Eric Cressey (although he is a bit baseball focused) and Nick Tuminello. These guys are general personal trainers but their sites have a lot of information you can cherry pick.

Stretching is obviously also important - my problem with the injury was that my body 'locked up' the injured site (lower back) and that mean everything from about my knees to my shoulder blades was just one solid unbending block. Even 5yrs or so later I'm still trying to unlock it all. I havent done (but should do) yoga or pilates, but they are options.

Another 'oddity' is that sometimes back pain is not caused by the back muscles being tight but by your hip flexors (on the front of your hips). This often comes about from prolonged sitting causing anterior pelvic tilt, which in turn can compress the spine etc. As a website designer (I think thats your job?) you obviously need to look at posture and movement - not sitting at your desk (or worse hunched over the laptop) for hours and hours

If worst comes to worst...I know of at least one good surfer (indeed, a commercial board shaper) who had 2 shattered discs that were operated on and he was back surfing every day only 3 or 4 months later. Not a pleasant 3 or 4 months, but its not the end of the world.

So I suggest looking at core and glute strength exercises, plus think about stretching particularly the hip flexors and quads. Have a read of the sites I suggested and come up with an exercise routine. Most of it you can do at home, especially if you spring for some exercise bands, so no need to hit the gym.

Obviously stop if something causes you pain; but otherwise just keep going and feel part of the old codgers back pain club.

Jaffa can probably add some specialist knowledge

[peazz]

Thanks for the Input guys, Im on this now!

Going to devise a daily / weekly work routine to target the core, glutes and stretches. Will ask the chiro what he recommends as well when i go for another session tomorrow

[dtc]

I should have also added

1. check out foam rollers - you may not need them but they can be good

2. almost all of the necessary exercises and stretches can be done in front of the TV at night, so no need to find extra time. Although reading while foam rolling takes a bit of practice.

[peazz]

Hey DTC,

I got a foamie back in HK, must say its amazing for deep tissue work on the hips i love mine.

Also, nice call on the glutes, I mentioned it to my Chiro and he said they are underactive so gave me a non compressive exercise to active them and get them working

Feeling a little loser after my second adjustment, got another one in 2 days... hopefully will see some better improvements.

Appreciate every ones input! Thanks guys

[dtc]

No worries, just my years of experience (unfortunately for me). Good so see another person joinign the clamshell club.

Btw, as a cheap version of a foam roller, head over to a hardware store and get a PVC plumbing pipe of a suitable dimension (40 or 50mm from memory works best) and cut it down to about 2-3 foot long. And you can take it travelling as well, keep a 1ft long offcut and stick it in the bottom of your bag. Obviously more painful than a foam roller, but the hips/glutes can deal with a bit of pain.

[billie_morini]

peazz,
I have 3 herniated discs in my neck. This condition arrived out of nowhere in Fall 2010. In addition to unmerciful pain, my right arm and hand were paralyzed. There was a lot of doctoring and I returned to surfing about a one and a half years later. The first 3 times out, I went real easy and my best and most athletic buddy stayed within 1 meter of me (just in case). My neck hurt, but not enough to stop. More exercise and physical therapy ensued. So did surfing. No, I don't surf as hard or as big as I used to. But, I can still enjoy surfing. There is a moderation quotient to it. I hope the same practices allow you to continue surfing, too.
billie

[rick1]

If you are surfing with neck pain do to degeneration in the cervical spine then you want your body comfortably lifted so you are not straining your neck to lift up. I recommend looking in to a wetsuit or shirt that has a soft ridge supporting the chest which gives a little lift to the upper back and neck. Dr Rick

[rick1]

To the guy with degenerative discs of the lower back, the best protocol for degenerative disc is getting more blood flow in to the disc, that includes chiropractic adjustments, massage, laser therapy, and a dermal patch that has a litany of Chinese herbs called wei patches. I have severe degeneration in both lower back and neck, this has helped tremendously, also swimming crawl stroke and turning your head to both sides for weightless range of motion. Hope that helps. Dr Rick

[jaffa1949]

Good answer, as a retired Chiropractor in Australia, who surfs ( important part that)!
Getting functional spine both cervical and and low back.
I found getting adjusted to get the full spine in its optimal position ( which may not be anatomically perfect ) but optimal for the patient and their history.
Then I suggest a course in Pilates or supportive yoga. Both of which require teachers that can work with the needs of their client.
This builds up the core muscles around the spine and can relieve the pressure around degeneration. For pleasure and benefit also have massage with a good experienced masseur .
Poor posture adds structural pressure causing inflammation which in turn puts further pressure
on nerves emerging from the spine giving pain and dysfunction.
Diagnosis is very important to define the correct treatment and potential for recovery and stabilisation.
Learning correct or modified paddling techniques and pop up techniques can help too.
Moderation in duration and intensity of sessions is important.

I did a free review of the Paddle Air Inflatable Rash vest some years back, they have modified it since then and correct usage of this can reduce cervical strain coming from paddling and the rib pain where the bottom ribs rub on the board.

Summing up if you have back problems surfing seek a chiropractic or medical review. Please ensure that they are at least sports treatment qualified and at best surfers so they understand the postural challenges.

This statement is most important.
If you choose to have the surfing lifestyle realise you are asking an amazing amount from your body , in torquing it moving it and all the things you do.
Maintain it for these purposes, by having your health back up team, design you a set of good exercises and bloody well do them
My best patients were the ones who outside of a maintenance treatment regularly did all the things I suggested.

The rest were like rally cars driven pedal to the metal and then requiring a complete rebuild and panel beating just to keep moving

[LostAtSea]

My back is in terrible shape. Misaligned for the most part.

I stretch, eat sensibly, light workouts, occasional visits to a good physio (my vertebrae will never straighten - its the muscles around it I have to be conscious about), some yoga and I'm good. Surfing actually loosens my back and I feel better afterwards.

It's sitting down that kills me. Paddling around with my head up does me a world of good.

Like everyone said: Take care of your self, stretch and give it a go.

[TravelinLight]

I have degenerative Disc Disease. I have had a triple laminectomy / discectomy at L4, L5, and S1. I started surfing after my surgery. Keep in shape, try to strengthen your core, and listen to your body when you get tired. That is when it is time to pull the plug for the day. I cannot stress that enough to understand why to call it a day. It has been 15 years since my surgery and I am more active now than before.

I ski double blacks, hike, and surf when I can. It is all mindset and conditioning.

[harc]

I'm 70 facing L2-S1 laminectomy. I haven't surfed for a couple of years due to leg weakness. How old aye you now? How are you doing? Still surfing? You feel confident that the removal of the lamina hasn't compromised the structure? I have also had cervical fusion 4 years ago but the pain and leg weakness has kept me out of the water. I'm mostly surfed smaller waves at Cowells in Santa Cruz.

[jaffa1949]

Harc, hopefully I can answer your questions a bit. I am a retired Chiropractor and 70 year old surfer, but at the stage you are Chiropractic is not an option I would betalking about.
Check whether the laminectomy also will fuse L2 to S1, a fusion should any issues there. Ask about this as I believe it would be unusual without fusion.
Talk to your orthopedic surgeon, about preop exercises so your lumbar area is as functional as possible, hopefully you can get a physiotherapist who surfs or understands surfing on your rehab team.
If the laminectomy takes off the crushing pressure between the discs at each level and the interior of the laminae in the spinal canal relief and healing can begin.
The pressure on the spinal nerves to your legs may be eased and irritation and inflammation decreased.

Be prepared to honour your vintage as I am a similar age recovering from surgery and Radiotherapy for prostate cancer.
Take your time, little steps, judge your improvement by evaluation of the recovery of motor function and sensory function, be aware function can decrease with tiredness.
I recommend nano naps, walking, swimming and in pool walking, they are great, but let the physio design the program for you, and follow it sincerely.
Good luck tell us Old Farts of your progress, we and the world need encouragement!
I am in Portugal and finally after 3 years got waves that resemble, somewhat, I could do prior to any medical stuff
D.O.M.E don’t overlook mature enthusiasm

[BoMan]

This is my favorite thread on Surfing Waves. The village rallies to support an important problem!

[kookRachelle]

This will come as no surprise to anyone on here because I am a walking calamity, but I have two herniated discs in my neck from a fall resulting in fracturing two vertebrae (C3/C4) a couple of years ago. Surprisingly, it doesn't give me much in the way of problems, but I notice stiffness for days if I'm in the water too long at once. It helps me to take even a 10-15 minute break every hour or so. I also have type 1 diabetes so this is a good idea anyway to check my blood sugar and drink some juice if I need it.

As for lower back, I actually have an asymmetrical widening of my left SI joint from god knows what. I fell and fractured the left side of my sacrum when I was 13 so I'm sure that's where it started, but I also did triathlon and cycling for years and began really feeling pain in the area in 2010 after long rides. In 2012 I got into a bad bike crash and shattered my clavicle, requiring a plate, 6 screws and 2 bone grafts. The lower back pain progressively got worse and worse from that point until I was missing a lot of work so I went through a bunch of diagnostics - xrays, CTs, MRIs, arthrograms, EMGs, hip and SI joint injections, etc. and of course tried two chiropractors, two different physical therapy places, acupuncture, etc. Bottom line is that I've seen so many people and have gotten 3rd and 4th opinions and now I technically need two surgeries - SI joint fusion and a hip labrum reconstruction, but I'm putting them off as long as I possibly can and getting by with seeing a pain/spine guy for trigger point and steroid injections every 3 months and radio frequency ablation every 6 months. It seems extreme, but I'm not a fan of opioids, cannot take NSAIDs and like I said, I'm not in the mood for surgery at the moment. My last radio frequency ablation was two weeks ago and I was out there floating around on my board 3 days later, and came in on my belly like a boogie board even when it began to get sore from popping up.

Anyway, this isn't a pissing contest, but all I'm saying is that we make it work for things we're passionate about. Building core and glute strength will help, as will taking on a fearless attitude and not letting illness or injury hold you back. I will say, the most painful days for me come after I'm sick and in bed for a couple of days. Keep yourself a healthy weight (seriously, every pound counts), eat relatively well, and move as much as possible. I understand it's degenerative (I'm an RN), but keeping that blood and synovial fluid flowing is key. And yes, sometimes I also have pain/instability after surfing but nothing compared to when I'm idle. I can rest when I'm dead, and when I get there I want to look like I actually lived.

[kookRachelle]

The rest were like rally cars driven pedal to the metal and then requiring a complete rebuild and panel beating just to keep moving

hmmm... sounds familiar!

[jaffa1949]

Wow Kookrachel, holy jigsaw puzzle! enthusiasm of keeping on keeping on!