Surfing Waves

Like a lot of people, I'm appalled by the constant whining and crying about popout or Asian made boards (actually, American brands with factories in Asia, just like the computer you're typing on, the LCD TV you watch, or your $700 smartphone). Of course it's nice to have a custom hand-made board, but I get tired of this AUTOMATIC demonizing of ANY board that isn't made that way. "It's not a surfboard, it's a piece of plastic that floats." "Anybody who buys one is a kook." "They're OK for beginners, but later you'll want a 'real' surfboard." And so on and so on, blahblahblahblahblah. Good grief, you'd think surfing on a BIC or Isle or D33 Nexgen was like driving a Yugo in the Indy 500. Or, for crying out loud. Enough.

Of course, ANY product, from surfboards to toasters, will come in a range of quality. As has been said a millon times, it's not the board, it's the surfer. Remember, Kelly Slater or Laird Hamilton could get on that cheap junk Costco board and surf the balls off of anybody on this forum. Yeah, sure, I get all teary-eyed about the crusty old back-home board shaper in the little shop by the beach, but he still does a good business, and whether he does or not, life goes on, and the world continues turning on its axis. New computer-controlled, high-tech manufacturing techniques and new synthetic materials are taking over the surfboard industry, just like everything else. Deal with it, and stop "giving out grades" on what brands of boards other people have. Surf or STFU, kid. Put your pathetic little ego back in your pants.

Rusty, Firewire, Surftech, Stewart, Hobie, Ben Aipa, Bruce Jones, Dewey Weber and many others are "made overseas" but that doesn't mean they're popouts, nor does it mean they're worthless turds. Now, I have read that BICs and NSPs are true popouts made in a mold, not hand-shaped. That could be good, or bad. Molds ensure absolute consistency in shape and design, although of course it doesn't have the "romance" of a board made by hand in some old shaper's garage. And hey, there are a lot of veteran surfers out there that have fancy custom boards, but still love their old BICs and wouldn't part with them for anything. Hello?

Now, that little speech having been made, I would like to ask if somebody could point to honest, objective reviews of some of these mass produced boards. I'd like to read how they accelerate and turn, for example, and their weight and stiffness, sometimes an issue with epoxy. Is there anywhere out there where one can find this kind of information, instead of the same old childish whining?

Put your toys back in your pram

Before ranting at everyone on a forum you've just joined, maybe take a look around at some of the opinions first.
Pretty much every beginner that comes on here gets pointed towards BIC, NSP etc.

There's an awful lot of very experienced surfers out there - and on here too - so perhaps listen to other people's point of view before shouting your mouth off.

drowningbitbybit wrote:Before ranting at everyone on a forum you've just joined, maybe take a look around at some of the opinions first.
Pretty much every beginner that comes on here gets pointed towards BIC, NSP etc.

There's an awful lot of very experienced surfers out there - and on here too - so perhaps listen to other people's point of view before shouting your mouth off.

I guess I did sound a little harsh there, sorry about that. Just a little frustrated. As far as just joining, I'm sure you're aware that people often lurk on forums for a while before joining to post something. Same here; I've been reading this forum for several months. Yes, I know there are some surfing gurus here.

Personally, I'm still a beginner, 5' 11" 200 lbs. who lives a couple hundred miles from the Texas coast, and surf a few times a year on some rented foamie or whatever I can get hold of. Had a few lessons, and I love to get out and log the small stuff. I'd really like to get my own board though, and I'm having difficulty deciding which way to go. Like, WHY are those boards recommended for beginners? What can a custom board do that they can't do?

D33 is a good example. Their "NexGen" material is supposed to be stronger and more durable than fiberglass, yet lighter and more flexible than epoxy. According to them, they have a double concave in the tail, which increases speed, and have "beveled rails" that "pull the rails up and away from the water preventing the rails from catching on a turn and allowing for the easiest turns you've ever made on a longboard." Hmmm, sounds good, doesn't it?

But that's just advertising; all the brands make such claims, and the beginner usually doesn't know what's real and what isn't. I've read posts on surfing forums saying D33's are cheap junk, don't buy one, etc. and some things I wouldn't post on a public forum. Same old thing.

When you buy a car or TV, you can go online and find all kinds of reviews from owners, ratings (e.g. 4.2 out of 5 stars), and so on. There's nothing like that for surfboards. Does the D33's beveled rail really make it easier to turn? Does the double concave really speed it up? Is Nat Young's (5 time world champion) favorite longboard really a BIC E-comp, as BIC claims?

So that's basically it. I want the absolute best value for my money, but it's just hard to find any really specific information to help with the decision. I'm also looking at Mike Doyle, but again, there's nothing out there to justify the price difference, and somebody saying "it has more soul" really doesn't help. A Google search for "custom surfboards" turns up 125,000 links, which doesn't help, either.

So what you're saying is, you know absolutely nothing about whether these "pop-outs" are good or bad and feel the need to shout an opinion about them. My problem with BICs and their like is that, although they are good for beginners (very robust, so will survive the learning process), they tend to be heavy (especially BICs and NSP) so harder to surf. And are not built with the prevailing conditions of any single place in mind. Also they aren't that much cheaper than a custom. I can buy a hand shaped board for about 100 euro more than a BIC. That's not to say for a beginner a lightly glassed PU custom will be good value for a beginner.

Even though Kelly could rip the door off its hinges and surf it better than anyone on here, he chooses not to, because better crafted boards surf better. Entering a competition on a BIC would be EXACTLY like entering the INDY 500 in a Yugo.

Anyway if its advice on a board for your exact circumstances, you could try asking... I'd highly recommend a 9ft BIC:
https://surfing-waves.com/Browse/surfboards/longboards/bic/ This one will do you.

garbarrage wrote:So what you're saying is, you know absolutely nothing about whether these "pop-outs" are good or bad and feel the need to shout an opinion about them.

Anyway if its advice on a board for your exact circumstances, you could try asking... I'd highly recommend a 9ft BIC:

Thanks for the advice, but that's not even close to what I'm asking, as would be clear if you'd read my post. What I would like to see is objective, unbiased reports from good surfers about how these boards perform. For example, D33's "double concave tails" and "beveled rails" and other such claims by these brands. It just seems like all I ever hear is stuff like, "they're junk" or "they're just for beginners" or "they have no soul." I'd like to see a good surfer actually get out and ride some of these boards, and come back with "I rode a so-and-so, and in the turns it did this, and on the drop it did this...."

Ruark wrote: What I would like to see is objective, unbiased reports from good surfers about how these boards perform

How many times do you need to hear someone say they're crap before you'll believe that they're crap?
Perhaps the reviews aren't biased, but are in fact just consistent.

Ruark wrote: For example, D33's "double concave tails" and "beveled rails" and other such claims by these brands.

Why do you think you need to know that yet? They'll make absolutely no difference to your surfing whatsoever. And will continue to make no difference for quite a few years yet. All you need to know at the moment is size, shape, volume, durability and weight.

Currently, your asking for details about whether the roof shape of your Yugo will make a difference to it's cornering ability.

I went to the Degree33 site, based on their own information and their guarantee I would suggest to you you choose a 9' 6" ultimate longboard, try it if you are a beginner it won't make you surf better but it will be a platform on which you have a good chance to learn easily.
Bevel rails conclaves at this rage will not be of significance to you at this stage but they are there for later in your progress, if you love to log then my suggestion of the board, BTW asking a high level pro's opinion about a board for beginners is like asking a formula one driver on performance in a Volkswagen.

Somewhere sometime,you are going have to trust your,own opinions and not get fussed when others offer theirs after you've asked.
BTW does 54 years surfing ten years hapingx learning from top shapers and being colleagues with many top surfer give my opinions credibility? Get out get a board you think you like, see how it goes and start forming your own opinion since none of our advice resonates with you !

I also add this from another thread,
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=19802&p=155367#p155367
It also shows where you can get reviews.

Ruark wrote:
Thanks for the advice, but that's not even close to what I'm asking, as would be clear if you'd read my post. What I would like to see is objective, unbiased reports from good surfers about how these boards perform. For example, D33's "double concave tails" and "beveled rails" and other such claims by these brands. It just seems like all I ever hear is stuff like, "they're junk" or "they're just for beginners" or "they have no soul." I'd like to see a good surfer actually get out and ride some of these boards, and come back with "I rode a so-and-so, and in the turns it did this, and on the drop it did this...."

Ok, I've never surfed a D33, but have surfed Bics 7'9 and 9'. I can guarantee that you will not be able to tell the difference between the BIC and the D33 or a custom for quite a while. As for the nuances in turns etc, any surfers experience of it (be they a good surfer or intermediate) will be entirely subjective, and depend a lot on their style of surfing. So most of what they say will be irrelevant to you anyway.

This is the beauty of custom boards. You can talk to your shaper and explain what you are looking for EXACTLY. You may end up with a board that wasn't what you thought it would be (you may love it anyway). Surf that board till it dies or you have some spare cash and buy another board. Talk to the shaper about what you liked or didn't like about the last board, develop a relationship with him.

I have bought boards off the shelf before and they've been great. I've also had a few horrible ones. I've had a couple of boards custom made (one not so great, one amazing). It's hit and miss, but that's how you learn what you are looking for in a board. I'd take with a pinch of salt anyone who says this board is this or that in a turn, and be extra wary of phrases like "surf 6" shorter than your normal board.".

What I'm saying is, the boards you are looking at there, are perfectly adequate for your purposes. I'd go 9ft if I were you though, and you could do far worse than a BIC to learn on though, as they are nearly indestructable and will survive long after you have grown beyond it. Which means it'll still be going strong in your quiver when you move on to smaller boards (if you move on to smaller boards).

Sorry SP, didn't even know that was there. May even do a bit more than support the site in the near future. Might be looking for a cheater board before too long.

KS

Ruark wrote:Thanks for the advice, but that's not even close to what I'm asking, as would be clear if you'd read my post.

I am certain he did read your post. Have you even stopped to consider why there are very few if any reviews of pop-outs by descent surfers???

KS

Rusty, Firewire, Surftech, Stewart, Hobie, Ben Aipa, Bruce Jones, Dewey Weber and many others are "made overseas"

Just to correct the original post: the majority of the brands you listed are not, in fact "made overseas". Bruce Jones Surfboards, Aipa, Hobie, Weber and Stewart are all made in California and/or Hawaii.

At Bruce Jones Surfboards, we licensed a design to Boardworks for a brief period. The majority of our product was/is shaped and manufactured by hand either at our previous factory in Costa Mesa, CA or at The Waterman's Guild.

Original thread was in 2012, the posters have vanished much like some of the advice! Oh and your point holds true!

brawwwwk wrote:Just to correct the original post: the majority of the brands you listed are not, in fact "made overseas". Bruce Jones Surfboards, Aipa, Hobie, Weber and Stewart are all made in California and/or Hawaii.

And..... just to correct your post,
Some Aipa boards were mass produced and sold at Ala Moana surfboards ( until Ben's passing and probable ending of the contract with Rich King.
Some Stewart models are being produced by Surftech. https://surftech.com/surfboards/brands/stewart/
Their Ripster consistently sells out and they also have a higher performing Soft top compared to the full sponge board on the market.