Ethical fashion

[larky]

Ethical fashion

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Is the extra money on clothes like Brisish lifestyle company Howies who source their fabrics to check they are eco a fad or the right direction?

Or are surf brands just a rip off?

[Sar]

Hi, I dont mean to be rude - Im not going to answer your question because the choice are polarised opinions and far to vague a person for that sort of thing - sorry.

Just curious - are you a rep or interested party for some ethical branded surf type company? 3 posts and all the same kind of thing, they dont speak of particular personal interest in your subject but more promoting a cause. Nothing at all wrong with at all of course, just something seemed a little oddish with your posts.

[tree4]

Nicely put Sar.

[larky]

Its a subject that interests me and didn't think that it was a brain stormer you either care where your clothes come from or are happy getting a bargin and not interested as long as they are of a certain quality. Not may people seem to know where their clothes come from or care or Labour behind the label would not need to exsist and before you ask Sar no I dont work for them. I think exposure of the life cycle of the history of clothes needs to be more transparent and wanted to ask a straight forward question as per above.

[Real Pol]

It's not really a very well though out post and survey though is it?
To instigate debate on a subject you need to give us more to engage you. There is nothing there. You are asking everyone else to do the work, if you were really interested you would give your points and why you believe them to be right over the others which would allow us to comment with our own opinions.

[larky]

is not survey its just a simple post with a question if you wish to answer it no one is making you answer the question but it is clearly getting people back up so why the anger bet you dont know where your clothes come from but is easier not too care!

[Nettinoo]

I've just completed an MA in Textiles and Innovation and specialised in sustainable approaches. I investigated companies such as Howies and would like to buy more clothing from them as I like their approach. Their stuff is a bit more £ than a lot of high street clothing these days but that's because supermarkets, Primark and others have been able to reduce their prices because they pay low wages to workers in Bangladesh etc. They have priced ethical brands out of the market. To me your questions are not too polarised
it is really about taking a side and adopting some principles. Do you care about the lives of the workers or not. Many people don't and they would rather have something cheap and not do any research into where it comes from. It's hard to admit that they don't care and far easier to pull apart the post you wrote. I think the reason you've got people's backs up is because you're calling their ethics into question. Personally I have changed my shopping behaviour and save to buy clothes that are ethically produced, I buy less so I can save for them. I think the consumer should be a bit more savvy as this will force unethical companies to clean up their act. It's a bit tricky to get companies to clean up their act and Howies manage it because they are relatively small so it's easier to monitor their supply chain. Companies like Primark dont always know whats going on in their factories in India and how much the factory has decided to pay the workers (so they say). Also if we all stopped buying clothes from primark then we'd be putting people out of jobs. there are petitions you can sign up for to show that you don't like the way these companies operate, Labour behind the label do lots of stuff. Lots of companies are trying to create desirable eco clothing but it wont do any good if no-one buys it, these comapnies wont last. I thinks it's important to buy fairtrade and ethical even in a credit crisis but to be honest i dont have a family to think about so...but the clothes do last longer so long term are better value. I think we have lost the ability to find ingenius solutions such as say making our own clothes from cast offs people used to do this all the time. Everything has to be easy and instant

[drowningbitbybit]

it is clearly getting people back up so why the anger bet you dont know where your clothes come from but is easier not too care!

Any anger is not directed at the question or the concept of ethical fashion. It's at you.

Who do you think you are to come on to a forum, where the majority of people are as environmentally ethical as they can be, and start throwing around accusations?

I know nothing whatsoever about you but you sound like some jumped-up little kid who has leapt onto a bandwagon, and now spouts off to everyone about it and how you personally are saving the planet and how much better than everyone else you are. I bet you have spots too.





See? Assumptions and accusation really aren't all that helpful in a debate on ethics.

[larky]

Yes thats right I'm captain planet and I'm here to rid the world of pollution! You obviously dont know where your clothes come from or care hey? Carry on this bullying and I will make a complaint

[drowningbitbybit]

Yes thats right I'm captain planet and I'm here to rid the world of pollution! You obviously dont know where your clothes come from or care hey? Carry on this bullying and I will make a complaint

Actually I do. A lot of them come from SAS, funnily enough.

Oh, and feel free to complain to the moderators about me "bullying" you.

Hint - look at the number of posts beneath my avatar and consider who the moderators on this site are.

[Hang11]

Larky,

I honestly think you're a bit of a c*nt, and you would probably do your cause more good by keeping your mouth shut.

[phillwilson]

i was tempted to just join in from the gut but thought i would attempt a better rationale,

just athought on this type of meddling...from my own experiance not a humanitarian leaflet...

when I was 14I had the coolest job, it was in a little store that sold interesting gadgets, it was family run and i worked with a team of true friends it was a pleasure to be there, i got paid £16 A day which was enough back then for my weekend fun and so on when coupled with my paper round.

Then the ever so helpful government came out with national minimum wage laws that extended down to the under 16s for the first time..guess what...the shop owner couldnt afford to pay me or my friends any more and guess what....my boss had to let me go

not cos I was unhappy with the wage or my boss wanted to get rid of me , not cos the work type had changed and suddenly merited more money... but because some meddling third party came in from the wings full of half cocked intentions and changed the way people went about their business because THEY thought they understood what was in MY best interests.

theres a word for people like that but it will sadly only get X'd out on here.

[Sar]

I didnt mean to spark off any anger with my comment.

I do care where my clothes come from but I am not commited enough to by ethically traded stuff all the time. I am aware that cotton is one of the most sprayed crops there is but I dont buy organic - sorry about that. I have heard that hemp fabric is better for the environment and is more breathable - Im quite a stinky person so will look into this. My base layer I wear in winter is made from Merino (sp?) wool because of the same properties as hemp and superior to many polyester type products, though a few quid more.

I have written a couple of (top graded ) essays on the subject of child labour (and the negative impacts of banning it in Bangladesh and Pakistan).Similar to Philiwilsons case: young people aspired to work in the clothing factories but when it was banned due to a US politician threatening to stop all trade with Bangladesh if it didnt stop under 14's were not permitted to work in the factories. This led them into more exploitative employment, such as factories who dont care about those rules or them and the sex trade. Loss of work meant not being able to contribute to their familys income (loss of self esteem) and not being able to afford school (loss of future prospects), this led to many NGO's changing their intervention practices on child labour in those countries - though their goal is still to end child labour.

The issue and peoples reactions to it are for more complex than you and your poll gives it credit for. There is nothing wrong with wanting to spark debate, my opinions have been changed and refined from debates on this very forum. I suggest that if you are interested in the subject then do some meaninful research into it first to develop a more clarified opinion. - That wasnt meant as condecending as it sounded.

Out of interest -where do you get your clothes and how much do they cost? Are they all natural materials? Do you know where the cotton is grown? Where the sheep live? and are the silk worms fed well and have somewhere cosy to sleep at night? Where is the raw material processed into fabric? Where and who is it sewn by? Have you visited the factories yourself to ensure that it is what it says on the label? Or do you do all of that yourself? - If so, Kudos to you!!

[Sar]

oh and just quickly before I get off my soapbox

DBBB - PLAY NICE!

[larky]

Kudos for me my partner is an ethical fashion designer so all my clothes are made by her. Fabrics sourced with transparent history. Yes I have been trying to learn as much as I can starting with Labour behind the label efforts which I have been following and joining in on their campaigns the next is to make sure that the Olympics 2012 is a fair trade event, I've already badgered my local MP in this process. I'm also aware companies such as Primark its not about braking the chains so the child labour sweat shops just get ride of these workers its about improving the links so they get paid more and the conditions are improved. Other wise like you said they may turn towards prostitution etc. Its about working with them to improve the chains.

But that is a really informed answer and excatly what I had hoped for thanks for the response. I know the question wasn't brilliant to start with and acknowledge this as a flaw but wrote it late one evening as I'm lworking ong hours to fund my degree and writing late in the evening to build up some research. Therefore sorry for any oversights that may occur.

I'm just trying to change my life style by less consumption and trying to make more aware choices but I'm still learning so I'm learning all the time and I'm not a saint by a long way and dont mean to preach just passionate and not very good at wording my feelings.
Sorry

[Sar]

I'm also aware companies such as Primark its not about braking the chains so the child labour sweat shops just get ride of these workers its about improving the links so they get paid more and the conditions are improved.

Yes! Thats exactly it. Exporting our distaste for child labour by an outright ban does no good for the people of the country concerned.

This is the module of the course which was the most illuminating:
http://www3.open.ac.uk/courses/bin/p12.dll?C01U212

I feel you pain re the working very hard and funding the degree, I feel chilling and drinking beer helps me make my long drawn out points. feel sleepy during work time rather than my own time

I find that if I want more info coming in from a perspective of 'I dont fully understand but here's what Ive got so far' helps.

[drowningbitbybit]

oh and just quickly before I get off my soapbox

DBBB - PLAY NICE!

Hang on, I was!
My argument looked harsh but was in fact quite intellectual