Surfing Waves

Hello.

I'll get to the point. I'm writing a novel, a very long futureworld sci-fantasy style book, and I'm probably about three or four chapters from the end.

One of my chapters is going to be set on a surf world which is not exactly a planet, it's more of a freestand complex in space, dedicated to the delights of surfing. The story is set in the years 2303-2304 (although I may tweak this later.)

There won't be a great deal of the action showing real surfing taking place, but a small amount, and I wondered if any of the good people of the surf community on your forum would be prepared to help me with a couple of questions. Maybe, if I say please?

I'm not a surfer myself and I have never surfed with a long board, but I have done some with a body board, I know it's kid's stuff as far as you're concerned but I found myself staying out there for hours on end and it really got into me. I thought to myself, if I could go back and whisper into the ear of my younger self I would say "Take up surfing!" (My younger self wouldn't have done it, of course, because I was a bookish, sport-and-sunshine-shy wimp, but that's irrelevant.)

These are the magnificent questions:

1. How good would an active, fairly sporty type of male, aged 23-ish, who had been training with a long sword for six months and previously at a ball game similar to squash, become at surfing in a single day. What is the best I could expect someone to do in that short length of time? Someone who was generally quite gifted at sport and had good co-ordination. A fairly spiritual type, although he doesn't realise it.

2. Same question but for a person of the same age who had spent most of his life studying and only swimming for exercise, at which he was pretty good, but then started to train with a long sword for about a year. Very intelligent and focussed, introverted individual, who has been forced to overcome his retiring nature.

3. Same question for a 18 year old male who is pretty tall, thin and gangly and who used to be keen on sport but got involved with drugs and lost his fitness, who has gone straight and been training half-heartedly with long swords for about a month. But isn't very good at it. How much worse would he be than the others, or would it be simply the luck of the draw, he could turn out to be as good or better than them? He has less co-ordination.

4. A woman of 18 who has been training as a police officer for six months and is very intelligent, active and co-ordinated. She excelled as a cadet and is a bit of an all-rounder.

(Sorry. These questions are dumb, I know. I just don't want to suggest the characters can suddenly surf after a few hours' lessons when they probably couldn't.)

Which of these characters do you think would be most likely to be a good surfer? Or showing signs of it? Which ones would the instructors take to and which wouldn't they? As far as the plot goes, it's completely irrelevant who is good and who isn't, so I thought I'd do this bit of research and tap into the great surf wisdom which is surely out there somewhere. I just want the characters to remain true to type.

And in case you were wondering, the surf dudes and dudesses (Look, I won't know the proper terms until you tell me, will I? ) will be portrayed in a positive manner, even though it may not always seem that way. Because things are not always what they seem. But the surf ethos (Or what I imagine it to be) will be upheld, in its own way.

I will be back with more questions about that kind of thing later, if this goes well.

And about your thoughts on the future of surfing in the distant future.

I hope it's okay to ask this, my apologies if anyone feels I have no business here.

Thanks!

clarksville wrote: but I have done some with a body board, I know it's kid's stuff as far as you're concerned

O-oh, trouble! Clear the chairs, put your drink somewhere safe, locate the exits.. there's gonna be a brawl

(We have some bodyboarders in here. And at least one of them is very Big. And a Man.)

As for the questions - you'll probably have to forget about reality. As we tell every newbie who comes in here, it takes months to get merely 'competent' and years to get 'good'. After a day or two, you might (and only might) have managed to stood up on a board on a small wave and ridden straight towards the beach. This isnt surfing.

Ive been surfing years, and Im still crap...

Also - the surfing world chapter... Very similar to Richard Morgan's Woken Furies?
(see? One pre-conception that Im busting - surfers can read...)

drowningbitbybit wrote:

clarksville wrote: but I have done some with a body board, I know it's kid's stuff as far as you're concerned

O-oh, trouble! Clear the chairs, put your drink somewhere safe, locate the exits.. there's gonna be a brawl

(We have some bodyboarders in here. And at least one of them is very Big. And a Man.)

Heh no, this guy's safe for now, He isn't Faf trying to tell me what I do isn't surfing


As for the questions its what DBBB said.

I'm sure Joe will post the vide when I eventually try stand up, which I will do, just to prove that the sponge is superior

drowningbitbybit wrote:

clarksville wrote: but I have done some with a body board, I know it's kid's stuff as far as you're concerned

O-oh, trouble! Clear the chairs, put your drink somewhere safe, locate the exits.. there's gonna be a brawl

(We have some bodyboarders in here. And at least one of them is very Big. And a Man.)

As for the questions - you'll probably have to forget about reality. As we tell every newbie who comes in here, it takes months to get merely 'competent' and years to get 'good'. After a day or two, you might (and only might) have managed to stood up on a board on a small wave and ridden straight towards the beach. This isnt surfing.

Ive been surfing years, and Im still crap...

Also - the surfing world chapter... Very similar to Richard Morgan's Woken Furies?
(see? One pre-conception that Im busting - surfers can read...)

Thanks, drowningbitbybit.

Well, I'm very sorry, my comments about body boards were based entirely on ignorance. That's what I'm doing, trying to get less ignorant, so I'm straightened out on that already. Which is good because that's the kind of surfing I've done so maybe that means I have the right to be here after all.

No, I have no intention of forgetting about reality!
If newbies can't be expected to do much on their first day, that's fine, that's how it has to be. But you say that it's possible for someone to stand up and ride to shore, whether or not that's really"surfing," that is something I could consider letting one of them do. Maybe they won't manage anything. Maybe they will just crouch on it.

I don't mind how much I mess around with fake science and future tech, I just want human bodies and minds to remain realistic within that.

I'll make it my business not to read the chapter you mention! I don't read sci-fi or sci-fantasy as a rule. There's no point ruling out everything someone has done before, you would be left with a pile of esoteric crap no-one would want to read! Don't you think there would be surf worlds in any future where there was room for leisure? Of course there would, it's a sure fire thing. Loads of them, probably. I'm not going to avoid it just because some joker got there before me.

I may have a beach where they have assisted boards of some kind, shunned by the serious types. One of my characters may go off to surf on the assisted boards and be heaped with scorn by the others, maybe. I think maybe side jets to aid balance. Does that sound vaguely possible? It may have to be more full-on than that.

I assumed surfers could read. Unless there are voice modules attached to their computers.

parrysurf wrote::shock:

You can laugh. I know I look like I'm wearing my grandmother's wetsuit.

Big Man wrote:

drowningbitbybit wrote:

clarksville wrote: but I have done some with a body board, I know it's kid's stuff as far as you're concerned

O-oh, trouble! Clear the chairs, put your drink somewhere safe, locate the exits.. there's gonna be a brawl

(We have some bodyboarders in here. And at least one of them is very Big. And a Man.)

Heh no, this guy's safe for now, He isn't Faf trying to tell me what I do isn't surfing


As for the questions its what DBBB said.

I'm sure Joe will post the vide when I eventually try stand up, which I will do, just to prove that the sponge is superior

Thanks Big Man. You're planning to stand up on a body board?

Heh I know a guy that can! Mind you he's skinny as a rake. No I plan on having a play with a stick at some point.


I like your idea about assisted boards. That would certainly be an idea to make it easier for beginners. And you're right, boardriders would look down on anyone using such a board.

Big Man wrote:Heh I know a guy that can! Mind you he's skinny as a rake. No I plan on having a play with a stick at some point.


I like your idea about assisted boards. That would certainly be an idea to make it easier for beginners. And you're right, boardriders would look down on anyone using such a board.

Mm. I had a look at the surfing machines post and I can imagine whole stretches of very even surf created as plain riding for beginners. It would look like a weir and people would sometimes go to sleep on it. Maybe they would have some kind of alarm siren every few hours to wake them up! That would be the lowest of the low in terms of cool. I have to think of a word the instructors would use for such people/occurrences. Is there any surf slang that could be altered to suit something like that?

I imagine if it is a surfing world, they could tailor the waves to be challenging or not, making progression much easier than the real world.

I think that if I was served perfect waves, perfectly timed, didn't have to worry about hold downs, paddling out through heavy whitewater, sneaker sets, rogue waves, deep sections, wind, and everything else we deal with, I would have progressed much faster when I first started.

As I try to teach my son now, I think you could get decent within a full day if you had perfect conditions and all potential roadblocks/speedbumps were removed.

Plus, figure they would have some kind of onboard computer coaching you 'stand', 'move left foot back one inch' and stuff like that. Just that kind of analysis would eliminate the whole 'too far forward, too far back' groms all go through just trying to figure out where to lay on their board.

Oh, and also, of course, you'd have an 'extreme' surfing section, etc, etc.

And people who are wanna-bes? That's a kook.

rich r wrote:I think that if I was served perfect waves, perfectly timed, didn't have to worry about hold downs, paddling out through heavy whitewater, sneaker sets, rogue waves, deep sections, wind, and everything else we deal with, I would have progressed much faster when I first started.

but with out them surfing wouldnt be surfing

I'm fat. It took me 5 months of at least once a week surfing (waves permitting - every day) to get the pop-up. Now I'm working on my bottom turn.

yeh but surfing wouldnt be as fun or rewarding if it wasnt so hard work

Yes, its been fun. Totally worth it. Great exercise too.

Just posting that in response to his 'one day progress' ideas.

ahh i thought it was in response to me saying that those things are part of surfing, think about it if it wernt for thoses things we'd all be surfing much larger waves

Oh, yes, those are all essential parts of surfing. But, for the purposes of the guy's novel.. well, I'd imagine that would be available in the future.

Hey if I could have gone somewhere and learnt on assisted boards for a week or so then I would have. Only folk who live by the beach are able to seriously take up surfing and if you're too late at starting then you have work and families to juggle.
In the future if you get a couple of weeks at this "freestand complex" then you'll want to get as good quickly as possible similar to holidays here, however on earth the closest thing to it is lessons.
As you can see from the comments above there will be purists who believe that having assistance to learn goes against the surfing ethos, but I held someones hand when I began walking and used stabilisers on my bike!

The swimmer will be the best.

rich r wrote:I imagine if it is a surfing world, they could tailor the waves to be challenging or not, making progression much easier than the real world.

I think that if I was served perfect waves, perfectly timed, didn't have to worry about hold downs, paddling out through heavy whitewater, sneaker sets, rogue waves, deep sections, wind, and everything else we deal with, I would have progressed much faster when I first started.

As I try to teach my son now, I think you could get decent within a full day if you had perfect conditions and all potential roadblocks/speedbumps were removed.

Plus, figure they would have some kind of onboard computer coaching you 'stand', 'move left foot back one inch' and stuff like that. Just that kind of analysis would eliminate the whole 'too far forward, too far back' groms all go through just trying to figure out where to lay on their board.

Thanks for these comments, rich r.

I think you make a good point, if they train on any of the assisted boards or on machines or beaches with different levels of controlled surf, they would make much faster progress. I'm going to have quite a few options within the one day they'll be there.

The computerised coaching from the board itself is interesting. I think that's a real likelihood. I like that.

There would be an extreme section, I'm sure. With very big waves, but if they were all regular, it would become easy to anticipate, I suppose.

joem wrote:

rich r wrote:I think that if I was served perfect waves, perfectly timed, didn't have to worry about hold downs, paddling out through heavy whitewater, sneaker sets, rogue waves, deep sections, wind, and everything else we deal with, I would have progressed much faster when I first started.

but with out them surfing wouldnt be surfing

Thanks, joem.

The obvious thing with all this technology is that people are going to have their opinions about what's good and what's not. It'll have to be part of the story that there are purists who want to ride only truly random Planet Earth-style surf on Earth-style beaches, perhaps using waves re-created from data sent through space from some beach or other on the real Earth, (which still exists but is a very long way away.) And there will be those who will use the technology happily, for its advantages in learning and recreation, and not care if the waves are made up by a machine or if they are all identical to each other..
Your comment is part of the debate that will be be raging in the distant future, I think. (Assuming there is a future involving leisure activities at all.)

Real Pol wrote:Hey if I could have gone somewhere and learnt on assisted boards for a week or so then I would have. Only folk who live by the beach are able to seriously take up surfing and if you're too late at starting then you have work and families to juggle.
In the future if you get a couple of weeks at this "freestand complex" then you'll want to get as good quickly as possible similar to holidays here, however on earth the closest thing to it is lessons.
As you can see from the comments above there will be purists who believe that having assistance to learn goes against the surfing ethos, but I held someones hand when I began walking and used stabilisers on my bike!

The swimmer will be the best.

Thanks Real Pol.

The swimmer will be the best! I like your decisiveness, I might just go with that.

You make good points, which you can tell from my previous posts (which I made after reading yours) I have taken on board.
Since there is no real mark left on you to show how you trained, it would be hard to see how any real snobbishness over assisted training methods would be sustained.

Perhaps the way they choose to surf once proficient would be more of a telling thing.
Beginners are always going to be looked on in a slightly joky way by people who are really good at something, however they do it, I would imagine. I'm beginning to think that beginners trying to learn in a fully random Earth-style beach setting might be viewed as foolish. Or getting in the way.