The psychology/sociology of "localism"

[Bub]

Just thought this would be an interesting discussion. Why do certain surf locations around the planet have very intolerable locals, and other places are warm and open to strangers surfing with them in their waters even if very crowded?

Is it just kooks that usually take the wrath from locals, or do even very advanced surfers who are "tourists" get hassled as well if they venture into a "locals only" surf spot?

I'm sure there are alot of factors that create more friendly and unfriendly surfing for the traveler or non-local, so I thought it would be a fun discussion to figure out the "why" factors, and what it would take for a very territorial location to become more accepting of visitors (or vice versa).

[garbarrage]

never really understood localism but i reckon overcrowding can become an issue...
sometimes they're just protecting their perfect spot.. and other times they're just idiots.
there's a special break in ireland - Easkey where the local surfers have to clean up after a small few inconsiderate "tourists" who absolutely trash the place. they have to do it voluntarily in their own time. so in this case i completely understand if they are a little intolerant of blow-ins. usually tho if you demonstrate a bit of respect they are fine, even happy to have you.
on the other hand very rarely you meet locals that simply don't want you there - these guys are just a$$holes.
Luckily tho I'm fairly handy, so screw them, if they don't want me there - tough!

[tomato3000]

Is it just kooks that usually take the wrath from locals, or do even very advanced surfers who are "tourists" get hassled as well if they venture into a "locals only" surf spot?

I read in a surf mag a while ago (can't remeber which) that there was a ex-WCT winner getting attacked in the water! (this was in South Australia).

[parrysurf]

Locals hate kooks and wave hogs the like. If you don't show respect, you might be a victim. Never snake, never jockey, unless you are a local. You know when you are not in comfortable surroundings, do not push it there, let the locals dictate the pecking order. Waiting a few sets is a small price to pay.
Trust your instincts, don't be dumb. localism can be real.

[surferdude_scarborough]

being respectful is the way forward. dont just paddle straight to the peak and maybe take some of the smaller waves first before paddling into the peak. sometimes locals just want to be sure you're not some kind of kook. but f you're gettng a vibe that they dont want you there then possibly its time to leave.

best way to gain a bit of respect in a new line up is let the best waves through for someone else for a while and watch how they break n stuff. and then when ur in position dont mess it up. also dont back out o a good wave. you'll get less aggro if you take off and dont make it than if you back out at the last second so nobody else can take it.

[Surfing-Innovation]

^^ Agreed.

I've only surfed half a dozen spots or so - but in each and every case, I've always started out WAY outside the 'best' peak, either on completely different parts of the break, or at worst, out of the way of anyone on the 'best' peak. Unless it's definitely 'my turn', I always ask if anyone's going before I start paddling - that way I can't be accusd of jumping the queue.

Whether you're a newbie or an old hand, paddling straight into the middle of the lineup and forcing your way in is just twattish. As is paddling out then turning on the very first wave that comes in.........

Paddling out in the middle of the break, meaning you're going to be an obstruction is just as bad - as is paddling out and then sitting either 10 foot deeper or 10 foot closer in than someone who's already in the lineup and waiting for their turn.

Unfortunately, this is an era where manners don't often seem to be on the list of 'things to know' for kids (although lots of adults can be just as bad).

Bit of common sense, bit of common decency and everyone will have a good time............

[PapaW]

you'll get less aggro if you take off and dont make it than if you back out at the last second so nobody else can take it.

for sure! I will always acknowledge a slam before a averagely ridden wave. just don't keep doing it :p

[isaluteyou]

as is paddling out and then sitting either 10 foot deeper or 10 foot closer in than someone who's already in the lineup and waiting for their turn.

I do that at my local break then again anybody who knows me will realise im not out to be a wave hog i just find some people tend to sit too far in and let all the outside sets go by. Then again this is my local beach we are talking about i mean i surf there every day and always have respect for other surfers. But by respect i do not mean i will be submissive and allow other surfers to get the best of it - HELL NO!!!!!

Anybody who surfs in crowded conditions will quickly realise you have to find a balance between being respectfull and getting your pound of meat.

Persoanally i think localism and all that crap is a load of BS. Just paddle out be respectfull and mindfull of safety and thats all you need to do.

[O_Danny_Boy]

turning up at a new break thats not your local in a car with all your buddies is a ticket to disaster

be respectful in the line-up wait your turn on the shoulder and dont drop in

show respect and youll get respect

[alimac2411]

hate localism but felt it last summer (i was a local) when we were at a beach break that had lots of peaks, myself and 4 mates were at one, the rest of the beach was free, and it's a big beach, yet 17 guys who were up for a surfing holiday all piled to the peak we were at and were getting in our way, and going for drops before pulling of at the last minute etc...was getting well pi$$ed off!
The surf forecast for the next day was totally different so after the surf we told them that the forecast was really good for a beach 45 miles south on the west coast. Never seen them the next day as we enjoyed a pumping surf on the north east coast of the island at a beach that aint reported on magic seaweed (local knowledge required)!
Also, there was 2 great guys from scarborough that we met here at the same time too, we texted them to let them know were to go with us the next day, and they loved it, also went out on the pi$$ with them on the saturday night and hope to see them up here again this summer.
Point of the story, be respectful to locals and we'll go out of our way to help you, that's all you got to do!

[billie_morini]

Its kind peculiar to me, "their" behavior makes me wonder if they think there will absolutely be no more waves.

[surferdude_scarborough]

Also, there was 2 great guys from scarborough that we met here at the same time too, we texted them to let them know were to go with us the next day, and they loved it, also went out on the pi$$ with them on the saturday night and hope to see them up here again this summer.

Wasn't the lads from Fluid Concept was it?

[ANZAC]

Here on NSW, Sth Coast we get a fairly hardcore localism tag, but to be honest I havn't experienced it to be that bad.
I guess a guy likes to protect his local, and get as many waves as he can, but there's just no need for it to get out of hand.

[tomcat360]

Its kind peculiar to me, "their" behavior makes me wonder if they think there will absolutely be no more waves.

That's what I think drives localism in our area. The waves really are so horrible, it feels like every one may be it's last. I haven't dealt with any in a while but seen it been dealt to others all the time.

Summer time around here it gets worse. We get more kooks that are ruining the place that time of year and people that are out where they shouldn't be. Or ideally they should be somewhere else, but there isn't anywhere.

[billie_morini]

Trust me on this tomcat, I have a degree in science:
Waves have been breaking for eons. They will continue to do so! Waves will continue to break even in the event of nuclear war. It's when the sun burns out that there will be no more waves.

[ANZAC]

I was hoping that was the case.....

[hawaiiSUCKSexceptsurf]

in hawaii a lot of locals have animosity for tourists, including myself, even if they are family. its like localism on a large scale. i think it has something to do with their idea of it being "paradise' and they want to consume it, have no concern for metro hawaii. and they drive around in silly american convertibles

[Bub]

Its kind peculiar to me, "their" behavior makes me wonder if they think there will absolutely be no more waves.

That's what I think drives localism in our area. The waves really are so horrible, it feels like every one may be it's last. I haven't dealt with any in a while but seen it been dealt to others all the time.

Summer time around here it gets worse. We get more kooks that are ruining the place that time of year and people that are out where they shouldn't be. Or ideally they should be somewhere else, but there isn't anywhere.

Tomcat..I've heard from a few others that they experienced more "localism" issues down at VA Beach (in the summer) more than either further down at OBX or points farther north in MD and DE shore. They said it was extremely crowed and more of a young crowd (alot of kids under 18)...that is always a recipe for added trouble I suppose (crowded conditions + high testosterone levels + immaturity = heightened trouble).

[alimac2411]

Also, there was 2 great guys from scarborough that we met here at the same time too, we texted them to let them know were to go with us the next day, and they loved it, also went out on the pi$$ with them on the saturday night and hope to see them up here again this summer.

Wasn't the lads from Fluid Concept was it?

Don't think so, they were both called James, 1 was a really $hit hot surfer, other was bodyboarding! The surfing james's nickname was 'birch'.

[tomcat360]

Trust me on this tomcat, I have a degree in science:
Waves have been breaking for eons. They will continue to do so! Waves will continue to break even in the event of nuclear war. It's when the sun burns out that there will be no more waves.

Ah thank god! I have been stressing for years over this I wasn't saying it like I thought there would never be any more waves, but it's kinda the feeling you get from the people. But the waves really do suck, maybe 20 "nice days" a year which here consist of 15 that are waist and mushy, then 5 that are head and a little hollow.

Bub, I surf VaB generally. It's pretty crowded, considering all of Northside is banned, all of Pendleton except 500 yards from the Jetty and 500 yards bordering the military base, then 500 yards at 1st street and that's it. Sandbridge down south used to have some more area but that's getting banned, I think currently they have morning hours and evening hours you can surf but that's it. Then they have about 400 yards down there you can surf all the time, but it's next to the fishing pier and getting hit with weights sucks.

People have taken it into the parking lot and stuff, it's kinda ridiculous.